Tax The Wealthy More?

[Christopher]

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9IMTMI80.htm

So I was reading the above article and thought it would be a good topic. Should the rich be taxed more just because they're successful?

Your thoughts

[joe2003]

I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this but here goes:

I truly believe there should be a flat set % tax for all

including businesses etc.

No multiple forms no loop holes no discounts blah blah blah

everyone pays the same percentage period.

A fair and equal tax system in this country is just a pipe dream

but i can wish anyway.

[Uma]

Awful idea. Even the upper class are feeling pinched these days. Who's going to have the finances to help others during crisis moments if they get taxed to death and back? I say "leave em alone!"

[Jeffb]

I agree with Joe.

[Mark]

I was going to agree with Joe but then I saw Jeff agreed with him and I cannot agree with Jeff so....................

[Jeffb]

I was going to agree with Joe but then I saw Jeff agreed with him and I cannot agree with Jeff so....................

Come on Mark, show me some love. :

[Christopher]

Joe I agree with you 100%. Why the hell we haven't switched to flat tax, is beyond me. Seems like a win win for everyone. It doesn't punish the rich, the poor or the person looking to start a business.

[Jkimbo]

Can we just tax China instead?

[Lily]

Can we just tax China instead?

LOL! Yep, flat tax, fair and equitable! Unfortunately we live in a society divided by race, class and gender...

[joe2003]

Joe I agree with you 100%. Why the hell we haven't switched to flat tax, is beyond me. Seems like a win win for everyone. It doesn't punish the rich, the poor or the person looking to start a business.

But what it does do is ensure that the lawmakers/ reps/ judiciary/ elite etc ad nauseum

would have to pay just like all the peons.As much as I hope for a fair and equitable

solution,I don't believe it'll happen in my lifetime.Sad to Say

[FTJoe]

First - flat tax can never happen. Forget the fact that the polis are spineless money grubbing sycophants. Too many variables. You taxing charities? Churches? Donations disappear or do they get taken off the top so I can adjust my income before taxing? And forget about the entire industry of CPS, tax attorneys, they're out of work!! I guess they could work for the government trying to stop all the bartering that would crop up.

Anyway, my answer is yes. People in the upper brackets really have been getting a free ride for a while. I believe its part of the issue with the economy these days. Trickle down does not work, was a scam to make the rich richer, many of the the same people who got richer in the crash. You will stimulate the economy more by giving a thousand dollars to a thousand people than one million dollars to one person. And in a tough economy, they really pull back and hoard, lots of gold being bought for the upcoming upheaval. How many Flat screens and houses is one rich person going to buy?

Flat tax is the way, but until then, forget it. If I could lobby to raise the clip level definition of "rich" I would love to do that as well. Can we make it a million? I have to find the stats, pretty wild.

here's one item...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iCuYeWPyl7zqXPWi1Ck9mmYyAr7wD9IGP99G1?docId=D9IGP99G1

Other point being made elsewhere is its truly amazing that executive pay continues to skyrocket when people are still being dumped at record rates. At no other time have tings been this skewed. Many folks i talk believe a reckoning is coming.

Edited October 8, 2010 by FTJoe

[Jkimbo]

Here is why a flat tax is not the answer.

What ever you make this "flat tax" would not be fair either.

Consider a worker making minimum age struggling to make it to the next pay check.

In needs buy food, clothing, transportation, housing, the same as every one, yet would be subject to the same tax as a millionaire or billionaire.

Since the Roman Empire time the principle of the more you make the more you pay has been widely accepted. Along with the neat loop holes for the verry rich to get away with paying less.

IMHO you would see more class warfare with a flat tax, and besides, what would it be? How would you calculate it?

I think the most fair way to tax is by income, and that has always meant the more you make the more your taxed.

I think there is room for improvement over our current tax structure. I just don't feel a flat tax is the correct way, unless of course your rich.

Who paid more?

A poor man who gave 10% of his earnings or a rich man who gave 10% of his earnings?

10% to the poor man is a bigger loss then to a rich man. That does not even take in consideration the economic structure.

I think both the liberals and the conservatives need to be fired. Both have done a half *** job on taxes and the economy.

[Christopher]

I don't think a flat tax would kill the poor guy more than the current tax system already does. In all honesty it's the middle class that would perhaps finally benefit the most.

I understand the person needs to make rent etc but I don't flat tax is going to break him. When I was a kid my family and I where homeless for a little while (long story) so I know what that's like. And when we where crap broke (which was better than being homeless) it wasn't due to taxes. In all honesty I think if you want to succeed you can. I could have chosen to go down the path of drugs, alcohol and living pay to pay check but I choose to push ahead and break free from that world. I failed miserably many times, had teachers that told me I'd never be anything and friends that told me "this is just the way it is." But thank god I choose to move on and break through to where I am today. Granted I'm not rich by and means but my bills are always paid and I don't stress the lights are going to be shut off like I did when I was growing up. (It wasn't Vapor Talk that brought me out of this either for those wondering, but it is a great feat I'm proud of)

While I think many in poverty need help, I also think many of them are smart enough to break free if they really want to. I know, I was there. I don't think blaming or stealing from the rich will help anything.

[FTJoe]

Well now you are in to the argument about where the money needs to go. I am definitely not a lib (I know, shocking to some based on some of my arguments), but I am certainly not suggesting it be bled from the rich and "given" to the poor. Right now, the Bush tax cuts took a bunch of money out of the system, we were actually positive on the national debt at one point. Add a meltdown, scumbag bailouts of those who caused it, and we are in serious trouble. The quantitative easing that happened, and round II coming up, is going to turn us into a third world nation. We can actually stop that by doing this, and we're not even talking the 90% rate that used to be in effect a couple of decades ago (loopholes aside).

And yes, the joke is "QE II, I thought that was a boat?". Its coming and it's from short sighted people who really don't care where this country ends up as long as the elite (they are hidden) are taken care of. JMHO. The GAO estimate for where we will be in a few years is shocking. Just watch, in the next year or so, you will see states falling one by one, out of money, pensions and budgets depleted. That will be the beginning of the, well not the end, but a whole new animal. And the comment about China? Not funny, they might actually own part of us if they come calling with their US treasury notes!!!

[mastiffmom]

Flat tax sounds great and fair but the rich would still make out better because of all the loopholes. The loop holes are the problem. Trickle down is a failure, and most of us don't have accountants to search for ways out of paying. Years ago we could deduct medical bills, having a child with medical problems, her medications in 1980, not including hospital doctor bills just meds, cost $32000 a year. Thank God for BCBS, but we still paid a lot of co-pays. That was all deductable. Then with Reaganomics we lost that. Today at 31 my daughter's medications alone would blow your mind. Pancreatic enzymes with every meal, Zpack 3 days a week, 3 neb meds and every other month 1 inhaled antibiotic, singulair, inhaled steroid, insulin, and she is trialing a NSAID new one not out yet, migraine meds, not to mention the equipment, 3 neb machines, and her vest and those co-pays add up. Again thank God for BCBS, Those tax breaks would help her out, but again people like us do not have those nice loopholes. Perhaps flat tax and close most of those loopholes. Small businesses need to be able allow for losses, they happen even with the best of businesses, small not BP, Shell, etc. and allowances need to be made for providing a living wage and insurance coverage for employees. Stop giving big banks and financial companies bailouts so they can continue to prey on the masses. I'm also sick of the lazy collecting SSI and other benefits when the folks who really need them cannot get them. My daughter is eligable but refuses to apply because she feels she can and should work. Sorry I jumped up on a soapbox but I see the fallout everyday. I do not understand how people cannot afford meds so they get pt. assistance and go in dressed in pricey clothes, with expensive cell phones, nails all dolled up and oh by the way can I get enough samples for a couple of month? We are going on vacation and will need them......Sorry guys I'm outa control here but I have to deal with this crap everyday. Those who need the help have to fight for it and then struggle to just survive, no nice vacations or fancy clothes for them. Sorry again rough week dealing with all this.

[Schizophretard]

I have a simple solution. I call it the No Tax. Taxation is theft and therefore there is no way to make it fair.

Anyway, the rich being taxed more just because they're successful doesn't make much sense to me. That would be taxing all of us because we get our paychecks from the successful.

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

Its just the way of the world and we all have to deal with it no matter how much of a messed up situation it is, I agree with Schizo there should be no tax if I RULED THE WORLD, imagine that!

[Schizophretard]

Its just the way of the world and we all have to deal with it no matter how much of a messed up situation it is, I agree with Schizo there should be no tax if I RULED THE WORLD, imagine that!

There should be no taxes or rulers of the world.

[Kragax]

Tax is a necessary evil. That is how we pay the armed forces that protect us. That is where a lot of the money for public education comes from. Unless we went back to the stone age there isn't a way around it. The figures that I heard were that a flat 10% tax across the board would float the boat nicely and even generate surplus. That means everyone, rich, poor, corps. and any and all income, period, no loopholes at all, for many of the average workers this would actually mean lower taxes because the major corporate BS would not be able to wiggle around and save billions of dollar in taxes they should be paying. That allows the sucessful to reap the rewards of thier sucess and let the rest of us have a chance at becoming sucessful as well. If we didn't pay out so much for welfare your tax base could be even lower. We need to create jobs.

For example there were no food stamps before the 1960s. Now it has become an American staple, this drives up taxes. If you could give the guy a job that would reduce his expenditure of tax money and add him to the taxpayer list, a double win. There is so much that needs to be repaired from the country I grew up in, but the huge huge .gov that we have will trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. The red tape, interagency BS and total lack of accountability has allowed this thing sprial out of control and unfortunatly downward as well. Im fearful for the futre of my children, and have no hope for my grandchildren. Guess Ill take a prozac and lay down for awhile.

[Schizophretard]

Tax is a necessary evil. That is how we pay the armed forces that protect us. That is where a lot of the money for public education comes from. Unless we went back to the stone age there isn't a way around it. The figures that I heard were that a flat 10% tax across the board would float the boat nicely and even generate surplus. That means everyone, rich, poor, corps. and any and all income, period, no loopholes at all, for many of the average workers this would actually mean lower taxes because the major corporate BS would not be able to wiggle around and save billions of dollar in taxes they should be paying. That allows the sucessful to reap the rewards of thier sucess and let the rest of us have a chance at becoming sucessful as well. If we didn't pay out so much for welfare your tax base could be even lower. We need to create jobs.

For example there were no food stamps before the 1960s. Now it has become an American staple, this drives up taxes. If you could give the guy a job that would reduce his expenditure of tax money and add him to the taxpayer list, a double win. There is so much that needs to be repaired from the country I grew up in, but the huge huge .gov that we have will trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. The red tape, interagency BS and total lack of accountability has allowed this thing sprial out of control and unfortunatly downward as well. Im fearful for the futre of my children, and have no hope for my grandchildren. Guess Ill take a prozac and lay down for awhile.

Is it a necessary evil if it isn't only spent on the absolutely necessary?

If the only way we can get things done is by robbing people at gun point(taxing) then we are in the stone age. I want out of the stone age. I want people to voluntarily do things. Violence isn't a solution.

[Jkimbo]

So what percentage would a flat tax be?

You understand that no matter what it might be we would be accommodating the rich at the expense of the poor, because no matter what percentage this flat tax would be, it would have to be a increase for the poor and a decrease for the rich. Why?

[FTJoe]

I have a simple solution. I call it the No Tax. Taxation is theft and therefore there is no way to make it fair.

Anyway, the rich being taxed more just because they're successful doesn't make much sense to me. That would be taxing all of us because we get our paychecks from the successful.

No tax at all is not possible. Do you mean switch to a use tax? Cause if you like your interstate highways, we have to pay for them somehow. Along with a standing army, the central government, whatever welfare is in place, etc? State taxes have to continue for infrastructure, unemployment, etc.

If you phrase it like they pay more just because they are successful that does sound horribly unfair. ;-) But I think the original idea was more like shifting SOME of the burden from those who would feel the pinch to those who are more comfortable with it. Would we really take people that are making money who are basically at or below the poverty line and say, "you still got to cough it up"? Make no mistake, it is forced welfare payments, but I always felt those levels were indicative of ability to pay and still live comfortably. Makes some more past 50K, pay a little more on that money as well.

Its how its been done but with the changes made recently in the last couple of decades, there has been a push to relieve the rich of that burden. The rich are becoming richer, the poor will become poorer. The deficit will balloon and the economy will tank. Increasing that burden back to where it was just a couple of decades ago will help tremendously. Unfortunately, with the current attitudes in Washington, even if we ever got back to a surplus, they'd piss it away n something stupid. Fiscally responsible is not something our crew in Washington is capable of.

The wiki has interesting pros and cons for a progressive tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

There should be no taxes or rulers of the world.

It was a joke!

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

Tax is a necessary evil. That is how we pay the armed forces that protect us. That is where a lot of the money for public education comes from. Unless we went back to the stone age there isn't a way around it. The figures that I heard were that a flat 10% tax across the board would float the boat nicely and even generate surplus. That means everyone, rich, poor, corps. and any and all income, period, no loopholes at all, for many of the average workers this would actually mean lower taxes because the major corporate BS would not be able to wiggle around and save billions of dollar in taxes they should be paying. That allows the sucessful to reap the rewards of thier sucess and let the rest of us have a chance at becoming sucessful as well. If we didn't pay out so much for welfare your tax base could be even lower. We need to create jobs.

For example there were no food stamps before the 1960s. Now it has become an American staple, this drives up taxes. If you could give the guy a job that would reduce his expenditure of tax money and add him to the taxpayer list, a double win. There is so much that needs to be repaired from the country I grew up in, but the huge huge .gov that we have will trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. The red tape, interagency BS and total lack of accountability has allowed this thing sprial out of control and unfortunatly downward as well. Im fearful for the futre of my children, and have no hope for my grandchildren. Guess Ill take a prozac and lay down for awhile.

+1 Great point

Edited October 8, 2010 by BEERCITYVAPRZ

[Jkimbo]

There should be no taxes or rulers of the world.

Sounds great! But not in this world.

I do have a issue with sales tax. After all how many times must we get taxed? There is income tax from the state and federal, and then there is sales tax too? To add insult to injury there is no end how many times an item can be taxed! If I buy a brand new car I paid the tax for it, now if I sell it a few years later guess what? The next buyer has to pay tax again for the same item. And over and over again. If any thing this tax is close to criminal or theft lol.

Another issue I have is with politicians. I don't care what party they are with. Both the Dems and Reps are snake oil salesmen. In the beginning holding a government office was voluntary, there was no pay. Candidates held offices and still worked real jobs. What happened? They became politicians lol! I have an issue with these fat cat lazy politicians who get paid well get great benefits for doing very little. They are now so over paid it isn't funny!

Here's my take on taxes in general. It is an evil we need if we want to continue to have a government with so many departments and employees. Want less taxes? Cut some government! But the tax structure should be fair to EVERY ONE, not just corps and the rich and a flat rate does not accomplish that. As I already said, there is certainly room for improvement. I would begin by firing the dems and reps and start cutting some government right away. Beginning with the FDA of course