510 Vs 801/302

[miatafrank]

Some of the recent comments that I have made may lead people to believe that I am very anti-510, and although I will never buy another 510 atty, I still think that the 510 is an excellent starting point. My very first PV was a standard 501, and I thought it was great at the time. My second PV purchase was a VP-1 and a VP/PT, which both only came with an 801 fitting. As I read through many posts here at Vapor Talk, there was a common thing said by many people that made a lot of sense. Try many different things to see what works the best. I not only tried different flavors and nic levels, but different atomizers as well. I think that the 801 fitting makes a PV much more versatile, because it is easier to adapt from a larger fitting to smaller atty than it is to go the other way around. I also read somewhere that you can adapt from 510 to 801, but for some reason an adapter causes a 302 to short out (not direct knowledge, just something I read). With the switch from using cartridges to direct dripping, it became apparent that the 510s small physical size made it less than ideal for direct dripping. It holds less fluid and therefore floods easier, and leaks more frequently. Don't get me wrong, I think that the 510 is a solid performer and probably the single best choice for 3.7 volts because it runs hotter. In my honest opinion, it's that higher heat level that makes it leak so much more at higher voltages. That's what is so great about adjustable voltage, an 801 fitting, and a few adapters (experiment, experiment, experiment). I run my 302 atty at 5.3v which is hot enough to give me huge amounts of vapor, and still cool enough to keep my juices tasting great. I can also drip 3 or 4 drops into it without it leaking down the side of the unit. If I'm taking a long drive, I use an adapter with a cartomizer.

As for being anti-510, simply not true. I know that I stated that I thought that it was wrong for a joker to have a 510 fitting, but if I had stuck to 3.7v, I’d still be using a 510 atty. It’s the switch to higher voltages, and advice from many of you to experiment with different things that ultimately led to me dropping the 510.

What I have found about the 801/302 is that they don’t function as well at 3.7v, but at 5v and higher they shine. I have also made some observations about differences between 801 (both 2-hole and 4-hole) and the Joye 302. The 302 has better airflow than either the 2-hole or 4-hole 801, and either style of 801 tends to leak more than the 302. For anyone who has not tried one, the Joye 302 is truly a champion among atomizers at higher voltages.

[Brian]

Funny that you post this now because over the weekend I put a 302 on my Joker with the adapter and it works fine. I had to crank it up to 5.5V to get a good hit, which is the same voltage that the VP/PT puts out. I've been enjoying it pretty good. Still don't get the same hit as the 510, but it's good. Makes we want a new Joker with the 801 fitting because I hate using adapters. I'm still a little worried about using the 302 with an adapter after my Silver Bullet incident, so I'm keeping a close eye on it. I use to use the 302 on my VP/PT all the time and loved it. And like you said, my experience is that it leaks a lot less than the 510.

[mcquinn]

Depends on the manufacurer of the 801/302,the Bauway's are bad about leaking the Joyes and Janty's don't seem to leak for me without a warning gurgle.If you only drip the DSE's are pretty good as well but they will not work with carts very good.

[miatafrank]

I had to crank it up to 5.5V to get a good hit, which is the same voltage that the VP/PT puts out.

Until you put the atty on the VP/PT, and then the voltage drops down to about 4.8v. I am no guessing or reading it anywhere, I measured in on the bench using a 3.3ohm power resistor to simulate the load of the atty.

Makes we want a new Joker with the 801 fitting because I hate using adapters.

That's what I'm talking about, I use the 302 more than 90% of the time. For the few times I want to use a 510 carto, using an adapter to go in that direction makes more sense.

[miatafrank]

Depends on the manufacurer of the 801/302,the Bauway's are bad about leaking the Joyes and Janty's don't seem to leak for me without a warning gurgle.If you only drip the DSE's are pretty good as well but they will not work with carts very good.

The Joye 302 is unique in the way that the airflow holes are larger and cut into the threads going up the sides of the fitting. I use exclusively Joye 302, because this makes them out perform any of the 801s or their knock-offs.

[Brian]

Until you put the atty on the VP/PT, and then the voltage drops down to about 4.8v. I am no guessing or reading it anywhere, I measured in on the bench using a 3.3ohm power resistor to simulate the load of the atty.

Under load with the Joker set at 5.5V I'm getting 5.1V (using LiFePO4s). I checked the atty resistance and it's 4.4ohm... it's a very old atty. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had a 302 pop. I did pop a BE112 once. I've got several 302s that I washed because they sat unused for so long. May be time to start using them again.

[miatafrank]

Under load with the Joker set at 5.5V I'm getting 5.1V (using LiFePO4s). I checked the atty resistance and it's 4.4ohm... it's a very old atty. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had a 302 pop. I did pop a BE112 once. I've got several 302s that I washed because they sat unused for so long. May be time to start using them again.

How are you testing the loaded voltages? The Joker-AV is a regulaed voltage that should only drop 0.1v from where it is set. Another thing that has me wondering is that ever 302 I have has measured around 3.2ohms.

Edited September 28, 2010 by miatafrank

[Brian]

How are you testing the loaded voltages? The Joker-AV is a regulaed voltage that should only drop 0.1v from where it is set.

I built an adapter so I can test the voltage under load. LiFePO4s cannot sustain 5.5V under load. I think the Joker only drops 0.1V if the batteries are capable of keeping the voltage at the set level. Using a Joye 510 (2.2ohm) with the Joker at 5.5V, I only get 4.38V under load. I want to get some 3.7V 16340s to try, but haven't gotten around to ordering them yet.

[Brian]

How are you testing the loaded voltages? The Joker-AV is a regulaed voltage that should only drop 0.1v from where it is set. Another thing that has me wondering is that ever 302 I have has measured around 3.2ohms.

All of mine are 3.2ohms also, except that one, which is why I pointed out that it's a very old atty.

[miatafrank]

Hey Brian, something else I just thought about. Every 801 fitting that Jesso uses in his mods has 2 holes drilled into the the threads for increased airflow. Since you have a VP/PT, I know that you know the holes I'm talking about. I have both the Joker-AV and the Buzz, and I can use the same atomizer with the same batteries and the same voltage set point, and get a different experience from these 2 units. I think these holes are a huge part of the Joker's performance with the 801 fitting, and I think you might be getting a different experience with an adapter than I get with the native 801 fitting with the holes.

You are probably right about the batteries though. I've been using a set of ICR123A 3.7v batteries, and the 3.0v batteries must be getting close to the regulator's drop-out voltage rating.