Plan B

[Schizophretard]

We are all having a ban scare again because the FDA is still undead zombies that want to eat our lungs! This reminded me of a conversation I had with ddavelarsen.

Months ago ddavelarsen and I were having a private conversation about what to do during a ban. I came up with my Plan B. It is to use vaporizers. The one I'm most interested in is called the Iolite. Here are some videos of the Iolite:

HD Iolite Part 1 - Overview

HD Iolite Part 2 - E-liquid

HD Iolite Part 3 - Tobacco

HD Iolite Part 4 - Molasses

During our conversation, Dave talked about getting nicotine out of tobacco. This was my responses to him that gives the basic idea of what I think is a way that we can survive the FDA Apocalypse:

Wow! That looks like a complicated process. I may try it if you learn it first because I'm not even at the point of making my own juices with the nicotine already in juice and if you prove it effective. My main concern is finding a substitute for e-cigs because if they are banned then I will still have access to nicotine, pg/vg, and flavoring but without a device that stuff is useless to me. An e-cig is a vaporizer for e-liguid, so an alternative vaporizer is the logical choice. We weren't the first vapers. People used vaporizers mostly for weed even though they were designed for any herb including tobacco. The stoners were vapers before us smokers but they're not in as much danger because their vaporizers are for "tobacco use only" and they have been here for awhile. After seeing the Iolite I realized that losing the e-cig is bad but not a doomsday scenario. We don't have to return to smoking and can stay vapers. Since it doesn't have an atomizer but a heating pin we don't have to worry about clogging atomizers and vaping tobacco instead of liquid nicotine would be an option. Vaping tobacco may not be as healthy as liquid nicotine but it is still extremely more healthier than smoking because the majority of the 4000 chemicals are byproducts of burning the tobacco. In my opinion vaping tobacco would be equivalent to vaping liquid nicotine that hasn't been as purified as we are used to. The methods you emailed me to extract the nicotine from the tobacco is probably just as equivalent to vaping liquid nicotine that hasn't been as purified as we are used to because the professional method is probably much more precise. I guess it is possible that it would be more pure but I bet not much. Why go through all that trouble extracting nicotine from the tobacco by boiling it in water when extracting it by vaporizing it out is probably just as pure? Think about it. When you are done vaporizing the tobacco it isn't burned up. It is still in the Iolite and you mostly vaporized the nicotine. There would be mostly no smoke, no tar, and no carcinogens. The way vaporizers are marketed online is almost the same as e-cigs. Also, if e-cigs are banned you will have to get something like the Iolite anyway. Instead of extracting the nicotine what I want to try is to make e-juice with finely ground up tobacco or nasal snuff, flavoring, and pg/vg. You obviously couldn't put tobacco in an e-cig but if they are banned there won't be e-cigs and the point of extracting the nicotine from the tobacco is mostly to vape it in e-cigs.

I don't think you have to worry about just buying the Iolite. If e-cigs are banned then I predict our modders ,like Jeso for an example, will have the new strategy of making vaporizers marketed for tobacco use only. Our suppliers will start selling vaporizers, our e-juice would be nicotine free and marketed just like the flavor drops people put on their tobacco. We will drip the juice on organic tobacco with no additives. Imagine this future: You go into the Vapor Talk Store and you notice that Jeso's new VP/PT 2 is finally in stock. The main difference is instead of an atomizer there is a removable vaporization chamber with a heating pin in it. You think about how much easier it is having a vaporization chamber that lasts six months when you used to fly through crappy atomizers. You go on another category of Chris's top ten recommended tobaccos guaranteed to be pure organic without all the additives. After that you go to the category called VT Tobacco Drops. You find your favorite flavor called 555 VT Tobacco Drops. In the store it says,"All products are for tobacco use only." and the best thing is they are really for tobacco use only which puts us in a better boat than the stoners. Is that that bad of a future? It will be harder for the FDA to go after us because we would be doing what they don't want us to do in a legal way and to eventually get our e-juices and e-cigs back we can argue that we tried to get off tobacco but the FDA said,"NO!" We may be using tobacco again but the main thing we had against it in the first place was smoking it. We would still be nonsmokers. We would still be vapers. The best part is the FDA wouldn't have the satisfaction of winning. We will say,"Screw you, FDA! The war isn't over! It has just begun! Vapers are here to stay!"

What do you all think? Do you think a strategy similar to this will help with a ban? Do you think I should get the Iolite, test everything out, and share my findings? What is your Plan B? Are you going to just stock up supplies and hope it lasts your whole life? I hope there isn't a ban but if there is I don't want it to be the end of the war but only the first battle and I think we need to be prepared.

[BreakingBad]

My plan B is all about stocking up. I have enough juice and liquid nicotine to last at least two years. I now have 3 different pv's that use batteries I can get even at Amazon. All I am worried about is atomizers. I have quite a few cartos and maybe 10 or 12 different attys, but that is not enough for me to be comfortable. I wish they weren't so damn expensive. That is the only plan B I have come up with. I am not creative enough to formulate another plan!

[Uma]

Hats off to Dave and Schizo! Please do experiment and keep us updated. I'm impressed!

[nana]

Please do, Schizo!! I'd love to know more about the lolite and would really appreciate you sharing your findings with us. I looked at it a few months ago, but didn't quite understand it. I'm sure I wouldn't like the looks and feel of the lolite like I do my eGo and SB, but if it came down to going back to analogs or using the lolite, the lolite would win hands down in my book.

The only plan B I've come up with is to stock up on attys. I'm down to about 20 regular attys right now and have thought about REALLY stocking up on them, but I can't stock up enough to last the rest of my life. I'd like to find a way to "rebuild" my collection of dead attys, but still don't know if that is possible. I am saving all of them just in case, but I'd love to have another way out of this.

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

I have used a vaporizer a while ago, and yes it is definately another way to continue vaping. I think also my plan B is to stock up and hope for the best, if it comes down to this, a vaporizer is also a good way to continue to vape, but id rather keep using the devices I have. Id like to not have to vape the rest of my life, I actually want to use e cigs to ween off of nic and be threw with all this crap all together, but realistcly that probably wont happen for another couple of years, hopefully!

Edited September 11, 2010 by BEERCITYVAPRZ

[Schizophretard]

My plan B is all about stocking up. I have enough juice and liquid nicotine to last at least two years. I now have 3 different pv's that use batteries I can get even at Amazon. All I am worried about is atomizers. I have quite a few cartos and maybe 10 or 12 different attys, but that is not enough for me to be comfortable. I wish they weren't so damn expensive. That is the only plan B I have come up with. I am not creative enough to formulate another plan!

I'm all for stocking up but only stocking up seems like giving up. It is a Y2K plan to me. I would prefer that the e-cig market adjusts and survives whatever the FDA does. I'm not just worried about getting my vapor but worried about the suppliers having a product to sale and staying in business. Most of us vapers don't stick with PVs that look like cigarettes. We at least upgrade to the eGo and many upgrade to mods that look like vaporizers anyway so, why not just subtract out the e-cig atties and start making mods that can still use e-juice but also has the versatility of a vaporizer? I'm not exactly saying,"Lets all buy Iolites." I'm saying,"Lets merge the e-cig market with the vaporizer market before a ban." If we lose e-juice with nicotine and our atties then we and the market would be safe because we would just change what we put in the devices we already have. We could just go from nicotine juice to zero nicotine juice mixed with tobacco. What could the FDA do then? What kind of arguments could they form? Are they going to ban vaporizers? Are they going to tell the public,"You can smoke tobacco in a pipe but not vaporize tobacco in vaporizers."? If I wanted to I could go to a store right now and buy a bong that can be legally sold because it is marketed as "for tobacco use only" that obviously isn't and it doesn't seem like that is going to change any time soon. If we join the vaporizer market then we could market them for tobacco use only but we would be actually using them for tobacco use only. Unless they make tobacco illegal our devices would be safer than stoner's devices and their devices seem pretty safe anyway. Buying a vaporizer is my Plan B but if the e-cig market starts making other vaporizers now as it's Plan B then we are all safe.

[Schizophretard]

Uma and Nana,

I'll make sure it is the next major device I buy. I'll test it all out. This is the most logical solution I have discovered so far.

[Schizophretard]

I have used a vaporizer a while ago, and yes it is definately another way to continue vaping. I think also my plan B is to stock up and hope for the best, if it comes down to this, a vaporizer is also a good way to continue to vape, but id rather keep using the devices I have. Id like to not have to vape the rest of my life, I actually want to use e cigs to ween off of nic and be threw with all this crap all together, but realistcly that probably wont happen for another couple of years, hopefully!

But what if the companies that made the devices you are using now started to also make devices with vaporization chambers that can be used with e-juice but have the versatility of a vaporizer? Would you consider that an upgrade to atties? If they started making devices like this now do you think it would increase the chances of Vapor Talk still existing after a ban of nic juice and e-cigs?

[kitsune]

My absolute worst case scenario---

I would think we could still get the hardware for vaping 0 nic--so long as I can get throat hit from 0 nic, I figure I could always get my nicotine via the patch.

The hardest would be the atomizers, but I am certain we will find a way to get them or at least somebody will develop an alternative.

The act of smoking for me is more important than the nicotine. It really and truly is my pacifier.

The lolite does look interesting.

[thisbetterwork]

my plan is to stock up, and when/if the **** hits the fan and i can't get supplies i'll get off nicotine entirely. that was the plan anyway, i just intended to do it on my terms.

[Jeffb]

my plan is to stock up, and when/if the **** hits the fan and i can't get supplies i'll get off nicotine entirely. that was the plan anyway, i just intended to do it on my terms.

Exactly my thinking also.

I do think that even if armageddon happens and they are declared illegal in the USA, we will still be able to purchase directly from China, although we will run the risk of having our order seized.. ( which we do already when ordering from China)

[Schizophretard]

Exactly my thinking also.

I do think that even if armageddon happens and they are declared illegal in the USA, we will still be able to purchase directly from China, although we will run the risk of having our order seized.. ( which we do already when ordering from China)

But how would we keep the market in the USA if they were illegal?

[Jeffb]

But how would we keep the market in the USA if they were illegal?

Much like other items that are illegal that somehow get distributed throughout our society.

[nana]

Much like other items that are illegal that somehow get distributed throughout our society.

I'm sure we have no idea what you're talking about.

I just need to know how to get my name and address on some lists (along with any code words we may need to have), so I can be one of those who can receive the items I need. I'm willing to go underground...I just need to know how to do it.

[Uma]

me too! I'm with Nana.

FWIW, I really like your idea Schizo and I hope you and the vendors can keep our vape on even if it is a bit different ...

Bootlegger Bootlegger knocking on my door,

Bootlegger Bootlegger, here to sell me some more..

Crazy that we even have to consider bootlegging such a healthy alternative to cigs!

[Jeffb]

I'm sure we have no idea what you're talking about.

I just need to know how to get my name and address on some lists (along with any code words we may need to have), so I can be one of those who can receive the items I need. I'm willing to go underground...I just need to know how to do it.

I hear Brian has a stockpile. Go to his house knock 3 times and when he asks for the password say " The vaping eagle has landed"

[nana]

Yeah. Right. Brian is going to hold on to his stash no matter what. I think he keeps it in a secret bomb shelter. He is very generous, but when it comes to his stash...watch out!!! He's going to sit back and laugh at all of us as we scramble and dig for supplies. He is - after all - a very smart man.

[Brian]

I hear Brian has a stockpile. Go to his house knock 3 times and when he asks for the password say " The vaping eagle has landed"

Dangit Jeff - you promised you wouldn't tell!!!

[Schizophretard]

Much like other items that are illegal that somehow get distributed throughout our society.

My brother got house arrest and probation for distributing illegal products. He was lucky because he could of done 20 years prison. So, I rather vaping stays legal. When things become illegal things get ugly. If it stays legal the market will grow, prices will stay low, the technology will advance quicker, and most importantly MORE PEOPLE MAY SAVE THEIR LIVES BY VAPING. This is a way to keep vaping legal.

I remember one of our members talking about making a better American made atomizer. I think it was Dannyboy? Even if there is never a ban or any regulation, I think making units with some kind of vaporization chamber would be an improvement on the atomizer. I first heard of low resistance atomizers from Dave. He said they would be game changing. He was right. Variable voltage was game changing. So much so that Jeso upgraded the Joker too quickly. A vaporization chamber will be game changing. If a company makes a good unit with one then others will follow. If others don't follow and a ban happens then that company will survive and the others will go out of business almost overnight. If one is made most people would still use nic juice but if the FDA hits the fan then people can switch to using tobacco with zero nic juice and less people will switch back to smokes. I hope such a device is made and I believe it will be profitable.

Another reason I think it would be good for such a device to be made is because I think most vapers don't realize they could get nic from vaporization before e-cigs were invented. How many times do you hear about someone starting with a vaporizer and then using e-cigs? If everyone knew about vaporizers like the Iolite then I probably wouldn't be too concerned. I'm concerned because if a ban happened tomorrow then I believe most vapers would go back to smoking as soon as their Y2K supplies ran out and vaping will become history. The Iolite may be fine but most people might be uncomfortable using a vaporizer because of them being used by stoners(guilt by association). If an e-cig company made one for the purpose of getting nic then that guilt by association would be less present. Also we all know about the new and improved mods so, one being made would educate vapers about vaporizers as an option.

[Schizophretard]

Dangit Jeff - you promised you wouldn't tell!!!

To be fair Jeff didn't say which Brian.

[ddavelarsen]

Schizo, I think this is a totally viable alternative to attys and juice if it comes to that. I'm really looking forward to your report on this device. My sense is that it might be more hassle than our vaping method, but I guess that might just be what you get used to, too. We'll see. Please let us know all about it man, I'm really curious but not in a position to buy any new devices. Don't believe me? Just ask my sweet wife! She'll give you the lowdown right quick.

So I'm depending on you buddy! Gimme the good news and maybe I'll have a little leverage with the old lady. "But honey, the FDA is trying to make people die, I need this! You don't want me to die, do ya?" Like that, it'd work man, for sure.

[nana]

It does look to be more of hassle, but then PVs have been more of a hassle than analogs and yet we keep using them. I would prefer to find out how to make my own attys and keep using my PVs, but I don't know if that is possible or not. And I'm open to trying new things. I need some alternatives - just in case.

[ddavelarsen]

It does look to be more of hassle, but then PVs have been more of a hassle than analogs and yet we keep using them. I would prefer to find out how to make my own attys and keep using my PVs, but I don't know if that is possible or not. And I'm open to trying new things. I need some alternatives - just in case.

Amen nana, I think Schizo's onto something here. I'm looking forward to the report!

[Schizophretard]

From what I've heard it doesn't sound like too much of a hassle. It is kind of give and take. Instead of batteries, it uses butane. Instead of atties, carts, and cartos, it uses a vaporization chamber and a heating pin. If it isn't as good as an e-cig then I don't see that as much of a problem because more vaporizers designed with the specifications that we need will be designed if just on e-cig modder creates one. Once there is one designed specifically for e-cigs then the ball will be rolling because the free market works that good. If you build it we will come.

[Schizophretard]

Amen nana, I think Schizo's onto something here. I'm looking forward to the report!

I have a feeling you want that report on schizo-vision.