Electronic Cigarette Sales Banned In New York

[Christopher]

First post updated again with some more information for everyone. Lets jump on board guys. Show them what the vaping army is all about

[nana]

How about some tips on the best things to say, the best way to say them, and maybe what not to say? I don't live in New York, but I sure am willing to write letters if everyone thinks it will help.

[JamesC7625]

Email sent.

nana, I can PM you copy of the email I sent if you'd like a few ideas.

[mmseng]

Well I copy'n'pasted this post to my gaming forums, which I know has a least a few vapors, as well as a lot of people who feel strongly about keeping their rights.

So, as a non-NY resident, what is the best thing to do? I have to admit, when these things come up, I get a little overwhelmed with all the links upon links, and following them, and getting lost, and not knowing who to contact, etc.

[FTJoe]

I'm NJ, so I'm sure it will be here soon...watta joke, yet not funny.

[osubckys]

I will preface this by stating that I do not live in or purchase from NY state. With that said, I am beyond disappointed and in complete disbelief that a room full of public representatives, whom are supposedly extremely well educated, would base a decision on something such as this on misrepresented lies manipulated to promote continued greed for taxpayer dollars. Do not be fooled by the way this vote was conducted. If the possibility of generating new tax revenues for NY would have been presented as a counterpoint to Linda B. Rosenthal's position, the nay votes would have been swayed quite easily. I also cannot believe that there was no comparison done to examine the legal position of state of CA and their handling of electronic cigarettes (personal vaporizers). Ms./Mrs. (I don't care) Rosenthal, please show me some data, some facts, SOMETHING!!! I do not support the kiosk sales and would never condone sales to minors either. However, I would not speak so freely without evidence to provide as to the contents or health ramifications of personal vaporizers. Congratulations to the elected sheep of NY for voting without any knowledge at all. It would seem to me that vapors will have to take up the fight to the FDA to produce factual data regarding personal vaporizers. I have no problem regulating them for purchase and consumption by adults only. Make them available through the same means as other regulated products, such as pharmaceuticals, tobacco, alcohol, etc. To stand there and say people are becoming addicted to cancer causing anti-freeze and promoting sales to children is ridiculous. Without any knowledge of the topic, most people in their right mind would vote against that (I would hope). Although she left the door open for NY to revoke the ban pending FDA approval, we all know without generating tax dollars for NY there is little or no chance of this ever happening. We also know that if the federal government does not generate tax revenue from these products, the position of the FDA will not change. If these so called protectors of the public gave a damn they would go after big tobacco first, and I don't mean let people smoke outside as long as we get our tax revenue from them killing themselves. Cigarettes in NY at $10 a pack generate a substantial amount of money for the state. Ms./Mrs. Rosenthal's position is clear, "WE ONLY CARE ABOUT SAVING LIVES IF WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FOR IT!" I only hope we as a collective do not take this action lightly or quietly. They are supposed to work for us. I can only pray that other states will not be so foolish and so greedy as to make uninformed decisions with the impact that I fear we will witness in NY. If and when the ridiculous happens, I will continue to vape, with or without nic, on store bought vg, flavoring and mods, because I'm damn sure never going to buy another cigarette again.

Thank you,

Brian T. Cotterman

[nana]

Email sent.

nana, I can PM you copy of the email I sent if you'd like a few ideas.

That would be great! Thanks.

[Burn]

I don't believe that the presentation shown in the video really had much to do with the vote. I do believe this vote was decided in the prior weeks by lobbyists, this is typically the case before these type deliberations. The force that is trying to stop e-cigs is pretty much playing this by the book, per the modern standards of politics. They begin with one state and use that win to leverage for more until there are enough states to warrant serious federal discussion. It began and was stalled in California and moved to New York (and elsewhere). The force against e-cigs in NY is not an assembly member presenting bogus facts or any one person in that room. Unfortunately, the guiding force of this legislature is a very powerful special interest group that has been influencing legislation far before anyone on these forums even picked up their first analog.

I am not trying to be a downer here, please believe that, I am trying to help identify the real enemy. I will sign and support any method to assist in this cause. I will suggest to anyone to listen that as you fight, you should also begin to reduce your dependency on nicotine. Switch down to a lighter juice until you no longer need nicotine. Losing e-cigs will hurt all Americans with another lost freedom. Losing e-cigs when you are hooked will hurt you. What I am encouraging is an action to mitigate your personal discomfort so you will be around longer (not have to go back to analogs) to keep up this very good fight.

[joe2003]

OK I'm an idiot and too upset to work thru this

Someone walk me thru this cause I can't get the e-mail link to work

Sorry I know we're all upset but hopefully some of you are still thinking clearly.

I've been called an alarmist and conspiracy theorist for years and when something

like this happens to prove I'm right I kinda get brain freeze for a while.

[Uma]

I feel sick to my stomach.

Same with me. How despairing.

[Uma]

I need a form letter. I'm from Calif. I can't articulate when I'm emotional. Help.

[Vapmeister]

maybe you can use or hell just copy some of this excellent article as ammo. I just went off on these dumbasses big time in my email.

Will try another when I am a bit more coherent - I was definitely disgusted beyond words (seeing red doesn't do it justice) when I wrote it.

http://www.tobacco-facts.net/2009/08/e-cigarette-foes-hazardous-to-health

[Vapmeister]

maybe you can use or hell just copy some of this excellent article as ammo. I just went off on these dumbasses big time in my email.

Will try another when I am a bit more coherent - I was definitely disgusted beyond words (seeing red doesn't do it justice) when I wrote it.

http://www.tobacco-facts.net/2009/08/e-cigarette-foes-hazardous-to-health

Compelling if anyone took the time to actually read it

Backed by the finding that e-cigarettes contain carcinogens and diethylene glycol, a number of anti-smoking groups and several other states in addition to Connecticut have jumped on the bandwagon, considering or enacting legislation to remove these “harmful” devices from the market.

However, the FDA failed to mention in its press conference that the levels of tobacco-specific nitrosamines (the carcinogens) detected in electronic cigarettes were extremely low, below the level allowed in nicotine replacement products, such as nicotine patches, inhalers and gum. The agency is not threatening to take nicotine patches or gum off the market, although they too contain detectable levels of carcinogens.

The nicotine in electronic cigarettes and FDA-approved nicotine replacement products is derived from tobacco, which makes traces of some tobacco carcinogens essentially inevitable.

The level of the same tobacco-specific nitrosamines in conventional cigarettes is at least 300 to 1,400 times higher than what has been detected in electronic cigarette cartridges. In other words, you would have to smoke as many as 1,400 electronic cigarettes to be potentially exposed to the same amount of these carcinogens as smoking one conventional cigarette.

In fact, the FDA failed to perform the laboratory test of most importance: a comparison of the presence of, and concentrations of, toxins and carcinogens in electronic cigarettes and conventional ones. Scientific studies have demonstrated that conventional cigarettes contain 57 identified carcinogens, while electronic cigarettes have not been found to contain any carcinogens at higher than trace levels.

The bottom line is this: Conventional cigarettes have been thoroughly tested. They are known to contain at least 10,000 chemicals, including about 57 carcinogens. Electronic cigarettes deliver nicotine without these 10,000 chemicals and 57 carcinogens. It doesn’t take a rocket toxicologist to figure out that electronic cigarettes are a much, much safer alternative to conventional ones.

Unfortunately, what the FDA and the anti-smoking groups are essentially telling smokers is that they would rather have them continue to smoke the most toxic cigarettes — the conventional ones — rather than switch to a product that is likely orders of magnitude safer.

The question the FDA and the anti-smoking groups are asking is: “Are electronic cigarettes safe?” That is not the right question. The right question is: “Are electronic cigarettes much safer than conventional ones?” The FDA and anti-smoking groups are comparing electronic cigarettes to a solution of spring-fresh Maine mountain stream water. What they need to compare electronic cigarettes to is a Marlboro cigarette.

This doesn’t mean that there aren’t problems with e-cigarettes that need to be addressed. This doesn’t mean e-cigarette manufacturers shouldn’t be asked to make certain changes, such as instituting tighter quality control procedures and making sure the propylene glycol is devoid of diethylene glycol. This doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be restrictions on the sale of these devices to minors.

But it does mean that it is lunacy to ban the product, especially given that the very same FDA is now approving deadly Marlboros, Winstons, Kools, Newports, Camels and others.

The FDA and anti-smoking groups are on the verge of losing sight of the actual objective of public health regulation: to improve the overall population’s health. The combination of FDA approval of conventional cigarettes and FDA banning of the much safer electronic ones would be ludicrous, would have detrimental population health effects and would send exactly the wrong message to the public.

The real threat to our children’s health is not electronic cigarettes. It’s the real ones.

[joe2003]

OK I'm an idiot and too upset to work thru this

Someone walk me thru this cause I can't get the e-mail link to work

Sorry I know we're all upset but hopefully some of you are still thinking clearly.

I've been called an alarmist and conspiracy theorist for years and when something

like this happens to prove I'm right I kinda get brain freeze for a while.

E-mails sent and already getting the auto thank you from these Sen.

I know they rarely read their e-mail but maybe we can get their attention with sheer volume.I sure hope we can stop this,for the NY vapers,for the suppliers(one of my faves

here)and for all of us.I'm afraid this is going to be a long fight.

[Noner]

I believe that the biggest problem here is that the government can't control the e-cig growth and if they can't control it, then they can't make money from it. I mean think about it. They are putting higher taxes on anything that is recreational, anyhting we enjoy. From fast food to tabacco, from alcohol to recreational vehicles, the list goes on. I happen to enjoy my ecig and don't have any desire to give up. I switched to them because of the horrible predjudices placed on smokers. Oh, but that is an accepted predjudice. What crap. I'm sick of it all. In one way or another they control every one of our lives. I could go on but to save sounding like a crazy anti-whatever, I'm done. Tell mke what to do and I'll do it. They are not stopping me!

[Hudsonkm]

This post is meant to let all of you in New York know that this is not even remotely close to being over. Even if it passes the Senate, it still is _not_ over.

Recently in Illinois we went through the same thing due to SB3174. However, the majority of the outcry against the bill didn't even take place until after it was passed by the Senate. Our bill had moved fairly fast, and this is the reason most people didn't even realize what had happened until it was already on it's way to the House. Yet in the end we were able to defeat the bill for the time being. S7234 is not as far along as ours was and therefore you have even more time to fight it than we had.

To give you an idea of what happened in Illinois I'll list the time line below. I am including the steps taken by the citizens of Illinois in protest of the bill as they happened.

------

2/9/2010 Senate Filed with Secretary by Sen. Terry Link

2/9/2010 Senate First Reading

2/9/2010 Senate Referred to Assignments

2/24/2010 Senate Assigned to Public Health

2/24/2010 Senate Senate Committee Amendment No. 1 Filed with Secretary by Sen. Terry Link

2/24/2010 Senate Senate Committee Amendment No. 1 Referred to Assignments

3/2/2010 Senate Senate Committee Amendment No. 1 Assignments Refers to Public Health

3/2/2010 Senate Senate Committee Amendment No. 1 Adopted

3/3/2010 Senate Do Pass as Amended Public Health; 006-001-001

3/3/2010 Senate Placed on Calendar Order of 2nd Reading March 4, 2010

3/3/2010 Senate Added as Chief Co-Sponsor Sen. Jacqueline Y. Collins

3/4/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Edward D. Maloney

3/4/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Kwame Raoul

3/5/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Ira I. Silverstein

3/5/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. William Delgado

3/9/2010 Senate Second Reading

3/9/2010 Senate Placed on Calendar Order of 3rd Reading March 10, 2010

3/10/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Martin A. Sandoval

3/10/2010 Senate Added as Chief Co-Sponsor Sen. Mattie Hunter

3/10/2010 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Louis S. Viverito

3/10/2010 Senate Third Reading - Passed; 049-004-000

3/11/2010 House Arrived in House

------

It was at this point that most of the E-Cigarette users in Illinois had first heard of the bill. There were many here that may have thought it was too late at that point to even fight it. Letter's went out to representatives and authors of the bill from concerned Illinois citizens. And as was found later, letters of protest came in from people living in other states as well.

Further people were alerted after an article was run by the Chicago Tribune.

3/11/2010 House Chief House Sponsor Rep. Marlow H. Colvin

3/11/2010 House Placed on Calendar Order of First Reading

3/11/2010 House First Reading

3/11/2010 House Referred to Rules Committee

3/17/2010 House Added Alternate Chief Co-Sponsor Rep. Eddie Washington

3/17/2010 House Added Alternate Co-Sponsor Rep. Joseph M. Lyons

3/17/2010 House Added Alternate Co-Sponsor Rep. Karen A. Yarbrough

3/22/2010 House Assigned to Human Services Committee

3/23/2010 House Added Alternate Co-Sponsor Rep. Naomi D. Jakobsson

On 4/14 a hearing was scheduled in Springfield. In a fairly impressive show of protest, Illinois E-Cigarette users attended the hearing and were given a chance to speak against the bills passage. It was noted that the officials at the hearing seemed to take what was being said to heart and perhaps even begin to question their own reasons for signing the bill in the first place.

The hearing ended with no final decision and a preliminary date for a follow up hearing was listed to take place on 4/21.

On 4/15 there was yet another update to the status of the bill as the chair of the Human Services Committee removed her name as a Co-Sponsor of SB3174.

4/15/2010 House Alternate Co-Sponsor Removed Rep. Naomi D. Jakobsson

The plan after this was to show for the following week's hearing in even greater number than the first. Surprisingly enough, it didn't even get that far as no notification was given that SB3174 would even be called on 4/21.

4/23/2010 House Rule 19(a) / Re-referred to Rules Committee

On the 23rd it was essentially dismissed from the current senate session as explained by Rule 19(a). And in the end a follow-up hearing wasn't even needed. It can pop up again if it is re-introduced in a future session but as of now we are keeping our fingers crossed.

Anyhow, I just thought those of you in New York would like to see how the same situation panned out here in Illinois. Even if just to give you a little more hope when it comes to your chances of defeating the bill.

On my end, I will be writing a letter or three as a concerned Illinois citizens in support of E-Cigarette users in New York.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Hudsonkm

[Schizophretard]

The more stupid laws politicians today pass, the less anyone respects those laws.

They can't even control illegals weapons, illegal drugs or illegal immigrants. How in the hell do they think that they are going to enforce & control this?

All that these politicians really have to use against you is fear. Because most vapers are law-abiding citizens, they want to scare you into submission to their corporatist agenda. They don't want to use force lest they look like the jackbooted fascists that they are. Ignore them & save your life -- don't go back to State-sponsored tobacco!

Besides, this is a ban against the sale of e-cigs, not a ban against the USE of ecigs. Vape in their face!

This is the age of DEFIANCE!

Amen! I will not love Big Brother! I will be a thought criminal and vaper until the day I die! I am not a law abiding citizen! I abide by my rights and the rights of others even if that means breaking the law! Laws are not sacred but our rights are! I am working on my Plan B for if and when the day comes that I can't purchase e-juice or e-cigs! Most vapers' Plan B is to stock up for a ban but that will only work for two years! My Plan B will be for the long term!

[imvapin]

you know the organization NORML?

National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

In a year from now, there will be NORECL.

National Organization for the Reform of Electronic Cigarette Laws.

I am so angry I just can't even. i cant. I wish I was at the senate in albany today. I would have yelled out, HEY ASSHOLES, IM STILL GOING TO USE AN E-CIG SO **** YOU U ******* *****. I hate america. this country is so ****** i cant even go there right now. wow i need a vape, right now.

PLEASE KEEP ON VAPING NEW YORKERS!

I am so close to going to my local police precinct and vaping in the lobby you have no idea how close im about to walk over there right now.

Good Job NY Senate, you just killed about 100,000 more people of lung cancer! WOOHOO! YOU GUYS ROCK! JOB WELL DONE!!

All you people living in other states, your not as mad as me. Why? because your not effected. well guess what, you will be effected. give it time. pretty soon you'll all be as fuming as I am. you'll see.

Once again,

PLEASE KEEP ON VAPING IN NEW YORK!

[imvapin]

I am also very upset about this whole thing....but please don't say you hate America...it's OUR fault we are in the shape we are in. "We the people" have become complacent! But NO MORE, vote them out...stand up and SHOUT! Our representatives are supposed to represent us...if they don't, it's BYE, BYE! I will never give up my e-cigs and go back to smoking!

[Schizophretard]

I'm going to vote Libertarian because I don't care much about the Republicrats and since I feel like the little guy I feel I'll best be represented by the little guy. Anyway, I'm so mad right now that I can't concentrate and navigate through the links and get to exactly where I need to go. I want the links to every person that voted on it. I don't know what to say. Maybe I'll just say that there are many voters who won't accept a ban and leave it at that. Anyway, someone please help me navigate to where I need to go.

[Mike]

Like I said weeks ago, Vaping and e-cigs are in this country now and there here to stay. No ignorant politition can stop those who choose to vape no matter what laws are passed. They can only make things difficult for us. Because of crooked politics like this, is why so many citizens of this great country are starting to realize how this country is not so great after all. This is what makes me sad. Trying to pass laws banning a device that gives hope to those who have a hard time giving up tobacco is absurd. This makes me furious. I honestly feel like punching somebody.

[NeRo9k]

This is getting ugly. Let's hope this bill gets defeated for our fellow vapors in NY. Even though you may not live in NY, they need our help. You can bet that if this passes it will continue on to other states.

[Sinikal]

Does this bill have to be approved by the State Senate also? Maybe there is a chance of a Governor veto.

I freakin hope so. This is some crappy news to wake up to

[Kmel]

I am also very upset about this whole thing....but please don't say you hate America...it's OUR fault we are in the shape we are in. "We the people" have become complacent! But NO MORE, vote them out...stand up and SHOUT! Our representatives are supposed to represent us...if they don't, it's BYE, BYE! I will never give up my e-cigs and go back to smoking!

I love America, which is why it pains me to see people acting like "we the sheeple", electing idiots because they do great 30 second sound bites on TV & we "like them". That's how you get an Assembly who votes 120-0 on legislation like this.

For far to long we have learned to think of the United States as simply a place and a people, instead of what it is -- a conceptual form of government that embraces that idea that human beings have a right to manage their own affairs without interference from government as long as they don't trample the rights of others. Our form of government doesn't "grant us rights", it simply recognizes those rights already granted to us by our Creator (God & Nature) to manage our own lives.

So just "voting politicans out" is a good 1st step, but it's useless without the 2nd step -- "who you vote in" and whether or not that person you vote in recognizes the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and State Constitution which places limits on how far they can go in creating legislation.

In short, quit using the personal "I like this idea", "I like this person", and instead look at whether or not this person will be a good legislator within the confines of the Constitution. Because once you start letting legislators color outside the lines to enact their "good ideas", then this is what you get -- nanny statists who will nitpick you until you bleed, and rob you of your money and your rights to enact their "good ideas".

[WISVAPOR]

No suprise!

The Goverment is all bent out of shape on vaping because they are not getting their fix from BIG Tobacco is all switch to Vaping.

No conspiracy theory.Fact!

The goverment made over $14,000,000,000 in just cigarette taxes alone in 2008.

Thats why it is a 125 to 0 vote. The goverment is crooked!!Period.

They can't get their money out of it ,It should be banned!!!

Then they encourage the Patch or Gum(60 to 75% failure rate)....Why? That's right Folks,,They have their hand in BIG PHARM too!!

Don't believe me??One Word! Chantix!!!

People committed suicide using this crap but it was endorsed by the FDA!!!

Big Pharm gotr their money and so dod the Government!!

All a bunch of B.S.!!

Sorry about the Rant!

I'll tell you this.."HELL WILL OPEN IT"S DOORS AND SWALLOW THEM UP BEFORE THEY CAN TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME!!!!"