Fda Now Seizing Small Shipments

[Christopher]

Many of you might not be aware but recently the FDA had a breakthrough in the SE, NJOY vs. FDA case. The FDA has been granted permission again to start seizing any electronic cigarette shipments coming into the states. Not only are they going after suppliers but they're starting to go after consumers as well. For those of you ordering direct from China, congratulations you may start getting a taste of what we (as suppliers) deal with on a monthly basis, costing us literally thousands of dollars. The FDA is getting serious and they're not messing around. As months go by I feel it's not going to be long before this will all become a memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxBUXLU1sFs

Just thought I would share this

[ROOR]

Please say it aint so! Will there ever be a end to all of us so we can just vape?

[Luke]

Uggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! <cries in the small suppliers corner>

[Brandon]

I'm flabbergasted. And having a hard time believing that the US Customs dept is spending this much time and this much of *MY* tax money on seizing a shipment of personal vaporizers and nicotine liquid when there are plenty of other things out there that are legitimate threats to myself and my family.

I guess it was only a matter of time though.

I won't go into the debates regarding what I feel is right for my family and I to use and consume, because there's just no point now. But this is utter ********, and I'm having a really hard time understanding how easily they can cast me off to die from smoking cigarettes. "Personal vaporizers are the devil so go smoke cigarettes intead, get cancer, and die like the dog that you are". **** you FDA.

This is ******* ****.

As much as I'd like to start blasting letters off to congressmen wishing that they die from the same slow and painful death that they are now wishing upon us, I just can't do it. Instead, I'll start sending letters to the congressmen in my state thanking them for not falling into the same level of ignorance that others have in the states that are now considering banning personal vaporizers.

So I now say, "Thank you congressmen of Oklahoma, for not wishing that myself and my friends and family members die a slow death from tobacco related cancer. Thank you for not trying to ban personal vaporizers in our state and this great union, and allowing me the freedom to choose how I wish to free myself from my tobacco addiction and not affect those around me anymore with second hand smoke. Thank you congressmen, for allowing me to use personal vaporizers instead of having to resort to products that have been proven to have a less than 30% rate of success in quitting the use of tobacco cigarettes. Thank you congressmen for allowing me the choice to not use medications that have been clinically proven to increase my chance of suicide, depression, aggression, and death.

Typically I'm neither religious nor patriotic in the common sense of those words. But I'll say it now: God bless the United States of America. God bless me and my family. God bless anyone trying to better themselves and to better their health and the health of those around them. May the spirit of our founding fathers prevail, and lead us through this grotesque and dark time when the FDA can blindly curtail the freedoms bestowed upon us by men of free will.

God bless us all.

[Schizophretard]

This is so depressing.

[Jeffb]

It's really getting bad if they are going after a shipment with 4 kits and some juice. I noticed the seizure took place in Chicago. I had heard Chicago was one of the worst cities to get a shipment through.

Time to build that bunker and fill it with juice, batteries and attys.

[SickDripzz]

HA what a way to spend some tax dollars. This is absolutely unbelievable... this subject matter is the kind of stuff that pushes people to the convergence of anarchy... this truely leaves people stunned with a gaping void for respect to our government. What they're doing isn't even legal in fullest terms, one could fight this and win in a court of law, which I'm sure many vendors are doing so now.

Not saying this is going to cause something like the LA riots... but this here has potential to go way over the top. Whether or not the FDA has been issued a warrant, I believe this to be a true act of violation to the fourth amendment.

[Brian]

This completely defies all logic. These wipes, and our whole government, never cease to amaze me.

Now I better go order a 500ml bottle of nic and a few more attys.

[Brian]

I'm wondering if they will seize a shipment that is hardware only??? The letter in the vids says "new drug", and the package had nic juice in it. If a supplier only orders hardware from China, is it just as likely to get seized?

Seems like if they had a real case they would just start shutting down the resellers. Just make it illegal to sell the stuff. Why go about it by seizing packages?

Edited April 24, 2010 by Brian

[mcquinn]

I kind of always thought that instead of ordering kits you should just order components that would not constitute an "e-ciggerette" and the nic juice is the real thing that is causing them to be able to get a judge to listen to them.Perhaps the FDA/Customs is lazy and just stops anything from certain manufacturers.

[Christopher]

Yes customs takes hardware and liquid. The hardware is considered a "new drug delivery device"

[mcquinn]

Oh Boo,gonna be an interesting summer .Kind on neat that nicotine is a new drug though.

[fusiontech357]

Oh man this suxs they just dont have anything better to do with there time.

[miatafrank]

I guess what I'm having the hardest time with is understanding how they can call a liquid containing nicotine that doesn't kill you an unapproved drug, and cigarettes which contain the same drug are perfectly approved. This makes no sense!!!!!

If you were going to call the hardware a delivery system of an unapproved drug, then wouldn't you have to compare that a cigarette's delivery system of the same drug. The delivery system of a cigarette would have to be deemed as equivalent to smoke inhalation of a burning building, but we save people from fires and treat them for smoke inhalation, which we immediately recognize as an injury.

Maybe the way to fight this is to shift the emphasis away from the drug and draw more attention to the delivery system. Wouldn't they (as the prosecution so to speak) bear the burden of proof that an e-cigarette's delivery of nicotine is more harmful the American public than a fire? No sane person would see their point if you made them try to prove that.

[mcquinn]

miatafrank ,you cannot buy ciggerettes with 100X the nicotine for one thing and the amount of nicotine is pretty much consistant throughout the industry.But the biggest reason they can sell ciggerettes is the huge amount of revenue the goverenment rakes in from them.For all the theatrics the goverenment and the tobacco industry have always been a very close team with a common goal to pick our pockets and they do that very well.What we are doing is akin to what bootleggers used to do in the early days of alcohol taxes and it is really sterting to bug them .Look at all the goverenment agencies they created to regulate alcohol an collect what is due .

Edited April 24, 2010 by mcquinn

[FTJoe]

Wouldn't they (as the prosecution so to speak) bear the burden of proof that an e-cigarette's delivery of nicotine is more harmful the American public than a fire? No sane person would see their point if you made them try to prove that.

No - the burden of proof is always on those that sell something. Would I really want the FDA to have to test every crazy thing that comes down the pike with my tax money. No way. We'd be livid. The drug company has to do trials to prove something is safe, etc. Problem in reality here is we don't generate a tax. Would I mind controls, nope, if done correctly.

[miatafrank]

miatafrank ,you cannot buy ciggerettes with 100X the nicotine for one thing and the amount of nicotine is pretty much consistant throughout the industry.But the biggest reason they can sell ciggerettes is the huge amount of revenue the goverenment rakes in from them.For all the theatrics the goverenment and the tobacco industry have always been a very close team with a common goal to pick our pockets and they do that very well.What we are doing is akin to what bootleggers used to do in the early days of alcohol taxes and it is really sterting to bug them .Look at all the goverenment agencies they created to regulate alcohol an collect what is due .

I do understand that, but these are arguments for regulation and taxation, not for an all out ban. Although we may not like it, we can live with regulation and taxation, but we can't live with an all out ban.

[SickDripzz]

It takes a person of basic intelligence to figure out that cigarettes are horrible for the human body and that electronic cigarettes do not hold a candle to cigarettes in terms of health hazards by either rational or emotional proof.

Now lets face it, the humans working for the FDA and Government(govt) most likely do realize the monumental health bennifits of using an e cig over analogs. But in there unhumanly job positions(they are a higher power to us all), it is their duty to defy/manipulate this general logic and produce their own facts under their own regulations to produce results in their favor (MONEY and POWER)(these results can go both ways for the bennefit to the public). The bigger picture behind the loss/decline of tobacco sales is absolutely crutial in the eyes of govt and they will not let that be interrupted. They simply cannot afford the loss of trillions of dollars during these times (yes trillions, a serious negative trickling effect can occur within BIG TOBACCO and BIG PHARMA companies over a course of time, leading them down the drain in some cases), which is a serious trickling effect with anybody/anything that has ties to these companies: (investments(STOCKS), compamy/personal affiliations(sponsors/networking), consumers(cigarette smokers) etc). There could also be a population increase and a life expectancy extension which is like WHOABAHGJHD##$@^%@*ZOMG!!! in the eyes of govt (I'm not saying this would get blown out of proportion, but this has the capability to have a serious eternal impact on the world...) Since govt has regulation and control over BIG TOBACCO and BIG PHARMA companies it is essential in their case to maintain this tradition and keep the power in the hands of the govt (population stabilization/regulation, huge annual tax income, huge money generating govt corporations etc). With the loss/decline of some of govt's biggest guns, this could reverse core concepts of how govt runs their day to day operations or really have them scrambling for solutions which could lead to some kind of chaos/chaotic disaster within govt itself.

I have thought of govt as bologna(yeah I say bologna now...) for a while now and I will continue to do so until legitamately prooven wrong, which I truthfully believe will never happen; and you know this is not the only controversial issue with the govt going on... Everything done by govt has a reason, they don't just sit on their arse and let things pass them by or allow for confusion within their sectors. They know exactly what it is they are doing whether or not their true intentions are exposed to the public in any given case.

Although there are more theories behind my reasoning, what I have stated here are the basics behind what it is I believe. These are my theories and what I believe on this issue; I am not insisting belief of any knowledge stated upon any individual.

Edited April 24, 2010 by SickDripzz

[mcquinn]

We do not know what is in store ,but if you are going to control and tax something you have to be able to control the pipeline.The internet in theory could be policed in more detail than any other form of business but there are certain alliances in place that are going to be protected.Just my opinion.If you notice so far with all the healthcare reform even during the last Presidency nothing was done to actually lower the price of healthcare ,just to find ways to make sure someone paid.Another alliance that is mutually beneficial.

[Christopher]

My guess (and always had been) control over the liquid. Once you control the liquid you control it all. It could go a couple of ways.

1. Outright ban and some serious fines scaring off suppliers.

2. Control of the liquid via cartomizers or something similar. No more bottles liquid. Tax per 5 pack.

Now some of you are thinking "oh well I'll just get my own stuff from China" yea..right. The moment big supplier stop buying liquid in bulk and moment China stops selling it. Sure there are a few off sites selling liquid, atomizers etc in bulk but that's only because the large factories make so much of it for us larger suppliers. Once we start switching to cartomizers factories will stop selling large amounts of liquid.

And think about it, when cigarettes taxes went up before electronic cigarettes HOW many of you actually went to a tobacco farm and said "hey, I'll take 200lbs of raw Tobacco please" It's just not likely. And in the event of a ban and current suppliers dwindle away the factories in China will also shut down. I've spoken with them and many have said if the US stops buying electronic cigarettes it's only a matter of time before they start shutting down.

[mcquinn]

I am sure we will all survive somehow ,we always do.I am glad I was able to use it to kick my addiction while I could do it my way.I met a lot a very nice people along the way .And had some very stimulating conversations with you all.Just hunker down and do what you gotta do my friends.

[Christopher]

We'll be kicking you know what and taking names the whole way

[mcquinn]

Another thought.This just may be another incidence of checking the water and things may go back to normal again.Sooner or later they will make a permanent move and I suspect it will be a little more showey than what they are doing now.

[Mike]

I am in disbelief. I know some states want to have laws concerning e-cigs but now we have to be worried that our shipments could be siesed just like that. It's hard to stay patriotic when our government acts is in foolish ways... and on such a small package? I have 4 30ml on way to me, now what? Are they going to confiscated? IT'S TIME WE ALL START MAKING SOME NOISE. I'm going to send messages to some higher up people and I hope more of us do the same(I know many of you already do). My dad is big into politics, I'll have him help me. That video/email from the FDA really upsets me and I'm going to do what I can to help....4 e-cigs and some juice...why punish the person who ordered this? makes no sence at all. I'll bet their answer is they are protecting us stupid americans. We need Uncle Sam, not big brother.

[snubber]

I see nothing good coming from all this. It's going to come down to us all paying extremely high taxes on carts or liquid to pay for the loss of sales of cigarettes. What this really is is that the big tobacco companies are pulling the strings of the FDA to make all this turn to their favor.

One of the reasons I came to e-cigs, besides the health issue, was that they were taxing cigarettes out of control which in turn made the cigarette companies raise the price to the point that became just way to expensive. I'm sure that when they finally find a way to tax e-cigs at a level that helps both the govt. and big cigarette companies all the bans and seizures will quit.

What we really need is for our elected officials to stand up for us and make the FDA prove their point about the health concerns or let it and us alone. But since most of our officials get campaign money from big cig companies, none of them have the balls to stand up and say "this just isn't true or correct". I only hope that a few more judges will come on board and stop the FDA from their Nazi tactics.