Laws?

[Andrew]

The electronic cigarette has just been released are there actually any laws banning it? I thought you could smoke it anywhere in public

[Christopher]

The electronic cigarette has just been released are there actually any laws banning it? I thought you could smoke it anywhere in public

Well there are no laws against it in the United States. Although if you smoke it inside a public or private business I can guarantee you that the manager will have a few questions for you. But unfortunately there have been a few country's that have outlawed E Smoking. Mexico for one and parts of Australia for another. Although I don't have the exact reason why off hand, most E Smokers and Business owners there all agree it because they can't tax it. Although the government talks about wanting their citizens to be healthy, at the end of the day traditional cigarettes bring in a TON of money for the Government. If everyone moves to E-Smoking, guest what? No more money. It would be intresting to find out just how much money they make off of smokers...

[Royce]

The not being able to tax is part of it... I seem to remember reading somewhere that restricting underage persons from purchasing E smokes is an issue in some areas as there laws prohibit the sale of tobacco products to minors and as the E smokes contain nicotine but no tobacco this could potentially create a loophole and be "legally" sold to minors.

**edit** http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/di...t.cfm?Docid=403 US yearly tobacco excise tax broken down by state

[Christopher]

Nice Link Royce. 14 million a year. Wow.

Although to be honest I thought it would have been quite a bit more

[Royce]

Yeah you have to remember that is just the excise tax (tax paid to bring into respective state) there are more taxes placed on tobacco especially in CA... albeit a bit harder to find a breakdown of the "sin" tax ill see if I can't find it though.

[Christopher]

Interesting. Amazing that because the Government thinks something I do is a "sin" that I get taxed for it, that's exactly the reason we fought against the United Kingdom, anyway that's another topic..

[Vacker1229]

as I was searching for various articles about laws I did come up with one that the Netherlands have banned the sale of e-cigs but it seems most are just hopping the border to purchase and bringing back home. I understand from the chat I have seen it is all about the tax revenue they are losing. Hmmm, so they want them to quit but they don't want to lose the money.

I just heard this a.m. that tax in US on "analogs" is going up .61 cents. could that be cuz so many have quit they are feeling the hit in revenue? Me thinks YES!!

BTW Great job on building this site, soon it will take off as more of us start e-cigs.

vacker

[Christopher]

Welcome to the forum Vacker glad you made it Glad you like the site.

I had no idea the Netherlands banned E-Smokes as well. It really pisses me off to hear about all these countries outlawing them. For years we have been trying to create a healthy alternative to smoking, once we finally get one, of course, the Governments have to ban it. I just hope the US doesn't follow the same trend.

I'll have to find some articles on the banning of E Smokes and post them here

[Royce]

Yeah the 14 million is just from the big tobacco companies purchasing those CA tax stamps on the bottom of the pack

heres how tobacco tax works http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:4yFEQ...clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Heres the rest of the revenue and a short breakdown of how its used

General Fund Revenue

Cigarette Tax: $122 Million

The state imposes an excise tax of 87 cents per pack of 20 cigarettes on distributors selling cigarettes in California. An excise tax is also imposed on distribution of other tobacco products such as cigars, chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco, and snuff. The rate on other tobacco products is calculated annually by the Board of Equalization based on the wholesale price of cigarettes.

Revenues from the tax on cigarettes and other tobacco products are distributed as follows:

Ten cents of the per-pack tax is allocated to the state General Fund.

Fifty cents of the per-pack tax, and an equivalent rate levied on non-cigarette tobacco products, goes to the California Children and Families First Trust Fund for distribution according to the provisions of Proposition 10 of 1998.

Twenty-five cents of the per-pack tax, and an equivalent rate levied on non-cigarette tobacco products, is allocated to the Cigarette and Tobacco Products Surtax Fund for distribution as determined by Proposition 99 of 1988.

Two cents of the per-pack tax is deposited into the Breast Cancer Fund.

[Christopher]

Interesting, seems that most of the tax goes for a better cause, that is, if it actually goes to whom they say it does.

Now what would be interesting to note is whether or not there is sales tax on smokes as well. If not then California could bring in close to the same amount of taxes with sales tax alone. (If everyone moved over to E-Smoking)

The other concern we should have isn't just the taxes but the big tobacco companies. If they realize (and I'm sure they are fully aware of this new technology) just how well it's working, it could potentially put them out of business. And we all know that many of our congressman and senators are deep in the pockets of big companies like Marlboro.

The good thing is that there are now quite a few companies selling Electronic Cigarettes which is a start. I was looking up some patents that I found when viewing another Online Cig Forum that stated a very similar technology came out back in the 90's however Marlboro bought the rights to it and it was never seen again. I have no doubt that some of the companies in China would be willing to sell out in a heart beat. Especially with the type of Cash Flow these Tobacco companies have.

CLICK HERE FOR PAGE 2: laws-t5s10.html

[Royce]

The cigarette and tobacco excise tax are completely separate from sales tax. The technology that surfaced in the 90's that you mentioned was a nicotine inhaler with a tobacco flavor but not nearly as close to an analog cig as our E-smokes do. With multi billion dollar companies like Philip Morris and RJ Renyolds out there there is that threat they will try and buy out these Chinese companies that are cutting into their profit margins. Thankfully there are a few being almost entirely made in the us and I know there are currently a few US patents pending on various E-cigs so the disappearance of the E-cig, in the US at least is unlikely.

[Christopher]

Good news to say the least. I'm going to do a couple searches on the US patents.

I do believe it looks like Janty is going to be here to stay. I also think NJOY is based out of Arizona and if either one of them realize the potential long term profit margins they will fight back against RJ and Marlboro.

[Sean]

Also, if big tobacco companies try to buy them out right or shut them down, I think you could go after or at least clearly point out that the government says they don't like/allow monopolies and allowing them to wipe out the e-cig would be doing just that, creating and maintaining a complete monopoly over the U.S. market of smoking. I think the smart thing for these guys to do would be to embrace the "new" technology and find a way to patent and develop their own that works better than their competitors. They should or could also make contracts with many stores and/or gas stations making it so that you could buy e-cigs, parts, pieces, carts, and liquids at there locations as long as the stores and/or gas stations only carried their brands and products. I mean it just seems stupid to me that they fight it when they could have already started taking action and putting this into effect. How do you guys feel? What do you guys think?

[Sean]

Also if the big tobacco companies did this they would not be in danger of going down and their many employees would be able to keep their jobs and not have to worry because they would once again have good job security.

[Andrew]

What would be even better is if Phillip Morris created their own E-Smoke. I'm sure they have the cash flow to create something that will last longer than what we have now AND create it at a low cost.

They could probably even create carts that ACTAULLY taste like a Marlboro now how sweet would that be. Maybe we should email them instead?

[Sean]

That's what I was trying to say Andrew. I'm glad you agree. I think they could also do things like keep their product american made so that we know the standards that the product will have to meet will be good, make an e-smoke that is better than any other that is currently available, and also make contracts with places like gas stations and stores so that only their product is carried at these popular locations. If you think about it they still have the ability to almost controll the american market of e-cigarrettes, they just have to act fast.

[Sean]

That's what I was trying to say Andrew. I'm glad you agree. I think they could also do things like keep their product american made so that we know the standards that the product will have to meet will be good, make an e-smoke that is better than any other that is currently available, and also make contracts with places like gas stations and stores so that only their product is carried at these popular locations. If you think about it they still have the ability to almost controll the american market of e-cigarrettes, they just have to act fast.

[dbitton]

The electronic cigarette has just been released are there actually any laws banning it? I thought you could smoke it anywhere in public

Not to my knowledge. The smoking bans seem to pertain to "tobacco" & "ignition". Since there are neither of those components found in the vapor of an e-cig, there should be no grounds for prosecution of any kind in relation to.

That doesn't mean that if you're in a situation where you feel it may be suitable to ask permission to a property rep. or owner before vaping away, you shouldn't do so! After all, if you're on someone else's property it would only serve to avoid any confrontation or misunderstanding to make it known. Additionally, don't be surprised if you're asked not to use it in a public place... some people won't like it, like the anti-smoking nazis that will insist they smell smoke! LOL

[Christopher]

Indeed. Just because you can smoke it inside public areas doesn't mean you should. For example I was reading online someone who said they love the fact that they can some around Disney Land. Although he was correct, you need to move to a discreet area. Especially since children are so impressionable.

[dbitton]

just got in from the bar after 4 days of vaping... MAN! cigarette smoke smells like ****. I wore my batteries down on my Npro and smoked an analog... nasty! I will be buying extra batteries for every e-cig I get from now on!

[Christopher]

Yup it sure does! Welcome to the life of vaping

When you say you wore down your batteries, what do you mean? How long have you had them. I know they die fairly quickly so I'm curious to know how long you had them.

[PoppaC]

I must agree. I was talking to one of my buddies here and we both agree that we have a lot lower tolerance for the taste of analogs. Besides, I haven't been able to find anyone yet that could pick up any odor when using e-cig. It's all in the taste. I am so excited that, maybe, my lungs will have a chance at getting cleaned up. After 4 heart attacks, two stints, and quintuple bi-pass I am ready. I have since found out that my body's healing process will increase without smoke in the system. I am extremely active, ride motorcycle, etc. and I don't want to quit smoking. These vapor devices have given me a new lease on life. And I can still enjoy myself.... I've been on Chantix for a while and they have a support system that is really pretty good. It hasn't helped me that much though. I have recieved a great deal better support for my character here at E.SmokeTalk.com than any where else. Good stuff for this old man.....

[Christopher]

Holly crap do you have a story or what Poppa! Glad your healthy! And we're always here for support! (No prescription required )

[dbitton]

Hey,

I got the Npro on Monday, admittedly, I probably didn't charge the batteries as long as I should have before trying it... Last night, I went to the bar around 5:00pm with a fully charged battery, I think I switched it over around 9:00 to the other fully charged battery, then I closed the bar at 2:30am. the last battery was out of charge just about as the bar was closing, so really, I'm not totally disappointed. I also had everyone I know puffing away on it, and during times in my pocket I didn't disconnect the battery either, I understand that as long as the battery is connected it is in stand by and trickling charge. Really it's not a bad deal, just sucks that I smoked that analog! I thought I was gonna puke taking my smoke stenched clothes off before bed! lol

I wish someone would create alcohol without the hangover! :) I'm off to take some Excedrin now...... ouch.

-- Also, I've noticed that my sinuses are starting to clear up, and being in a smoke filled bar all night made me stuffy.... Worst part about all that is that I just started bouncing there for extra cash! I don't think I'm gonna like that gig very much. :P

[PoppaC]

Holly crap do you have a story or what Poppa! Glad your healthy! And we're always here for support! (No prescription required )

I can tell you lots more. I won't bore you. But, Christopher, I am very appreciative of this forum. I have found that my lungs feel a bit better. I was struggling breathing. (Not Good!) Like I said before, I am so excited about it that I am sharing the e-cig experience with a lot of long time smokers. That has been fun in itself. And I always share that they can get honest answers from honest folks @ this forum. Now, back to the Arcade wars......