Chuck Blows Up

[BirdDog]

Below is a post from ECF. Yes the guy used unprotected batteries and the rest of the thread goes on and on about batteries. I don't want to start another topic about unprotected batteries, what I want to point out is venting in some of the mods on the market. The atomizer blew off the Chuck and hit him in the face. Thag Built claims that the Chuck is vented through the button. I wouldn't call this a prime spot to put a vent. My other concern is talk about adapters shorting out the batteries. I can not quite understand how a adapter would short out a mod and the batteries. Maybe by pushing the center post down?

I know most of us get the protected and unprotected battery safety issue. Thank you Chris for all your posts regarding battery safety. My warning is about the venting in some of these mods. Buyer beware, you may be using protected batteries, but how is it vented? Will it blow heat in your hand, shoot the atomizer at you or blow the bottom off? These are things you need to consider other than batteries.

Please note, this person suffered no major injury. I think his glasses saved his eye. Also I am not picking on the Chuck, it just happens to be the example at the moment. I am sure Thag would not want any of his customers to become injured to make a quick buck. He seems like an honest person.

My Chuck Blew Up---LITERALLY

I was vaping a few minutes ago, with an 810 atty and an adapter, and with what I THOUGHT were protected CR123A batteries.

Well, I was wrong. The draw was difficult and vapor nonexistent, so I changed to another set of batteries and put the originals in the charger. Still not up to snuff, and I noticed that the batteries in the charger read full, so I swapped them back.

I had the cart in my mouth, button pushed and was drawing a little, then there was a very loud explosion, about the same as an M-80. Something hit my left eye and knocked my glasses off (lucky I had them on!) and the left side of my face got burned and covered in soot.

Of course, as soon as it blew I dropped the Chuck (or it blew out of my hand), and ran to the bathroom as I could not see out of my left eye. I rinsed the soot off and cleaned up my eye and it hurts, but I can see. I think the atty blew off and hit me in the eye, deflected partially by my glasses.

Then, from the living room, I hear another explosion and there are two scorch marks on the carpet. I tried to pick the Chuck up but it was way too hot, so I got a towel and threw it out on the grass. There is a Chuck-sized melt spot on the floor now.

The Chuck has cooled off some (still very hot) and the graphics are all melted but other wise intact. I haven't been able to open the battery compartment to see what is going on in there.

I am posting this as a word of warning, make absolutely sure that your batteries are protected! I thought that the ones I got were, but the ones that came looked different than the picture online, so I just assumed they were a swap of the same type. Stupid mistake on my part.

Make no mistake, unprotected batteries are very dangerous.

I have included the link, in case you would like to read the rest of the posts. Link

Edited March 7, 2010 by BirdDog

[Jeffb]

Thanks BirdDog for posting this. After reading through all the posts the OP admits to using unprotected batts which he did not know were unprotected. It also appears he was charging batts that were not rechargeable. I think the more we get info out there to people the better.

[Vacker1229]

Wow!! This is serious bad press!! Even though he admits to "user error". I do believe there are a few too many people who buy from sources that no one has ever reviewed and unfortunately as we are all trying to save a few bucks here and there we often make a purchase from a source we know nothing about.

I will stick with my current trusted "certified" sources, VT Store for one and not get too creative in my "buyaholic" pursuit to the perfect stash of supplies.

Glad this guy is okay -- his equipment looks like hell!!

[BirdDog]

Thanks BirdDog for posting this. After reading through all the posts the OP admits to using unprotected batts which he did not know were unprotected. It also appears he was charging batts that were not rechargeable. I think the more we get info out there to people the better.

Thanks Jeff. He did admit user error and I did catch that when reading through all the posts.

Wow!! This is serious bad press!! Even though he admits to "user error". I do believe there are a few too many people who buy from sources that no one has ever reviewed and unfortunately as we are all trying to save a few bucks here and there we often make a purchase from a source we know nothing about. I will stick with my current trusted "certified" sources, VT Store for one and not get too creative in my "buyaholic" pursuit to the perfect stash of supplies.Glad this guy is okay -- his equipment looks like hell!!

I think that is why I haven't taken the plunge and bought any battery operated mods yet. I am waiting this out to see what happens in the next few months. I trust that Jeso, Chris and Parker have taken this issue to heart and will be releasing the new stuff with safety being a top priority.

[Jeffb]

These are the ones I have for my Silver Bullet. I feel safe using them. http://www.batteryjunction.com/4parc390reli.html

FYI- Battery Junction is still not open.

Edited March 7, 2010 by jeffb

[Brian]

I've seen some vids of batteries blowing and it's pretty ugly. Honestly, I'm not sure how much help venting really is. Maybe it will prevent the atty from blowing off, but I'm not convinced based on what I've seen.

Makes me wonder about the "protected" CR123A's I've got. I may be ordering some Tenergy batts soon. Kind of afraid to use the ones I have now.

[BirdDog]

I've seen some vids of batteries blowing and it's pretty ugly. Honestly, I'm not sure how much help venting really is. Maybe it will prevent the atty from blowing off, but I'm not convinced based on what I've seen.

Makes me wonder about the "protected" CR123A's I've got. I may be ordering some Tenergy batts soon. Kind of afraid to use the ones I have now.

I have to agree with you. I am not really sure how much proper venting would really help. It definitely will not stop batteries from exploding, but if it can keep it from discharging the atomizer or the top of the PV at my face, I would be pleased. This brings up the "pipe bomb issue" also, proper venting might just give the user enough time to get away from the unit before it becomes a deadly weapon.

[Brian]

I have to agree with you. I am not really sure how much proper venting would really help. It definitely will not stop batteries from exploding, but if it can keep it from discharging the atomizer or the top of the PV at my face, I would be pleased. This brings up the "pipe bomb issue" also, proper venting might just give the user enough time to get away from the unit before it becomes a deadly weapon.

Yea - I agree. Really sounds like this guy had no waring though. I would have thought the unit would have gotten abnormally hot first, or something. In looking at my units, blowing through the bottom of my spade is almost like blowing through a straw. Pretty well vented. However, it's hard to blow through my VP2. While you can do it, if pressure were to build fast, not sure it would be enough to keep it safe.

[Jeffb]

This may have been posted before. If you care to read up on battery safety and lots of other information click this link: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone.htm

[luck]

from what i understand reading the responses is it is possible that not only was he using unprotected batt's but he might have been using not rechargeable batt's.

edit crap jeff beat me to saying this and i missed it the 1st time i read it lol

Edited March 7, 2010 by luck

[Brian]

Here's a vid of what the CR123A looks like when going off.

CR123A Battery Fire

[bzeisman]

for those of you in dought about the chuck and its perfomance, you need not worry. ive been using it for the last 1 1/2 months with the lifepo batteries (the new safer li-ion batteries that jeso uses for the VP-joker). havent had any major problems but i have noticed that those lifepo batteries have a shorter charge on them (got to change them out every 24 hours vs 48 hours with regular li-ion batts)

[Uma]

Thank goodness the guy is okay. Totally freaky.

How would one label the ecig for future users? Inside the battery lid/cap?

[BirdDog]

for those of you in dought about the chuck and its perfomance, you need not worry. ive been using it for the last 1 1/2 months with the lifepo batteries (the new safer li-ion batteries that jeso uses for the VP-joker). havent had any major problems but i have noticed that those lifepo batteries have a shorter charge on them (got to change them out every 24 hours vs 48 hours with regular li-ion batts)

I am not worried too much about the Chuck. This is the first incident reported for this model and it really was the user's fault. The guy from Thag, Jeff (I think), actually replied in the posts. He has been trying to get a battery to discharge and test his product. He has offered the guy a new one at no charge and wants the damaged one sent back so he can investigate the venting issue that he has been trying to create. Like I stated in my first post, I think he is a honest guy and wants to make sure he has a quality product to sell. It will be interesting to see if he makes changes to the Chuck now that this has happened.

I am glad that your Chuck is working out well for you. Thanks for posting your experience with the Chuck.

[Christopher]

Another one bites the dust and I'm sure glad the user is ok. This is another reason why we held off on the joker and why we have always said it's so important to use protected batteries. I agree venting via the button is not the greatest idea.

One of the greatest features about the spade is the fact that 1. It uses protected batteries to begin with 2. The fitting is not pressed (many other mods are which is why they are exploding from he top) 3. The end up cap threads only allow you to screw so far so that in the event a battery ever DID explode the gas would escape through the bottom of the unit and via the light holes on the top.

We often have customers ask why we don't ship the "blue" batteries with the spade as the gray batteries don't always hold a great charge and the bottom line is, safety. I would rather replace none charging gray batteries all day long and loose money than have a unit blow up in a users face.

Guys I've said it before stay away from 6 volt devices these batteries are just not meant to handle the load, how many people are going to have to end up in the hospital before someone gets it?

And if you HAVE to have 6 volt, use the LifePo batteries from Tenergy.

Do NOT use the Life Po's from China we've had the Chinese admit on the phone they are CR2's labeled as Life Po's. Spend the extra money.

[BirdDog]

Another one bites the dust and I'm sure glad the user is ok. This is another reason why we held off on the joker and why we have always said it's so important to use protected batteries. I agree venting via the button is not the greatest idea.

Thanks Christopher for the information that you posted. It is always valuable and makes it easy to understand. I have made notes on all the information you have posted about batteries on the forum. I am holding this info for when I take the plunge and buy a battery mod. I am waiting patiently for the Joker. The VP/PT has spoiled me at 5 volts and that is my real reason for hanging on so long.

I do have a question, and I posted it in my first post on this thread. There has been some talk of adapters shorting out batteries/mods on some other forums. I am not completely sure and do not understand how this could possibly be a problem. Is it the pressure on the center post? Grimm Green eluded in a post some where that he had 2 adapters cause this problem. I think the adapter in question is the 510 battery to 801 atomizer. Have you heard anything about this and can you provide some information or a theory on why this would happen. I wish I could tell you more about what mod and where the adapter came from. All the posts were really vague and stuck in some of the most unusual places.

[Tektronik]

Wow, that ECF forum is crazy! There's like thousands of people on it, all with something to say. After reading that thread, I took off the battery cap and blew through my VP2 as well. If pressure were to build up, I'm sure it would come through those holes in the top, and possibly blow out the bottom cap because the threads are thin. While it all seems like the safety features are all in place, it's still a shaped charge. At least I now know where not to put my fingers in case something like this happens and throw it like a grenade at the first clue of venting.

This makes me consider not using a mod or carrying it with me when I'm on a plane. That's all we need is some really bad press about a PV going off while travelling across the country. I'll probably carry just an OEM with me when I'm travelling.

I just bought a Spade and sent it to my father in law in California. Brian's observation about it being very well vented has put me at ease, thanks for that. Is the Prodigy V2 vented as well? What about that Silver Bullet?

[Christopher]

You have to also remember the Spade fitting is pressed and sealed so the chances of anything coming via the top fitting is slim. This is something we had kept in mind months and months ago. I'm really surprised it's taken this long for everyone to go back to the drawing board.

@Birddog, hmmm, you know it could be, but I doubt it. The outsides of all custom units are negative and the center poll has the positive current. Could the adapter short the unit out? I'm not sure how but anything is possible.

I think what is actually happening here is a mix of poor quality batteries and above all to much load on the battery. What's happening is the batteries are discharging faster than they are designed, this is especially applicable on "stacked" units, in other words custom mods that use 2 batteries stacked on top of each other. What happens is, one of the batteries discharges faster than the other and one battery eventually heats, expands and finally blows. Could we have made the spade longer with two batteries? Of course but we knew it could lead to problems. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I want to keep you guys safe! Besides who else would I talk to this late at night

But moving on... there are users experimenting with these custom mods who have absolutely no prior experience, they are delving into projects out of curiosity which is causing more harm than good. They think because they've read a DIY article they are now experts. (And they really believe it too) When you start mixing batteries and voltages you HAVE to understand the basic foundation behind power. I'm pretty sure none of them would be doing the same thing with their cars. People often think having to much power can cause something to go boom when in fact pushing the limits of a power source can do the exact same thing. A good example would be batteries exploding in laptops, the battery just could not handle the power needed from the CPU.

We all have to think when is it enough? 5 volt, 6 volt, 10 volt? It's become less about leaving tobacco and more about who can push the most power and vapor. We've created the car per say and now we want to see how fast we can push it.

Great topic, I think there is a lot to learn here

[ROOR]

I agree chris when is enough enough?

I do like 5volts and that is fine for me. There are many modders out there like ciso who im sure most of you know makes some of the best mods. Yet he will only have at 3.7 volts. Thats just what he likes and feels comfortable with. One thing i have been reading about is using a single 18650 high drain batt at 3.7 volt with a low resistance atty can simulate a high volt vape. Its basicaly the opposite of using a 6volt mod and then a HV atty to drop the voltage down to say around 5 or 4.2. To me if you have to have the feel of a HV vape that is maybe something you would want to look into. Also just because your not stacking batteries doesn't mean one wont explode. Everyone has to just be careful and under stand these are not toys. The things we are doing with these mods is really cutting edge and has really never had that much studies done on them. DO RESEARCH!! RESPECT YOUR BATTERIES! I really don't like hearing these stories. For me its like when i used to skateboard everyday and watching videos of wipe outs. I felt so bad because i knew any day that could be me! I would hate for any one to be hurt!

PLEASE BE SAFE! do not just order a 5,6,7 volt mod and throw batteries in there and go for a HV vape.

I have been saying it for ever i really want someone to do a Battery care for noobs vid.

I <3 YOU ALL!

ROOR

Oh also chris what they are saying about the atty adapter, is a lot of them are cheap and the rubber that keeps the post floating wears out and then they do make contact. Things like that. I have had that happen to me im just glad i realized it before i screwed it on and took a vape. Im sure you know all this though because i learn most of my stuff from you! You have been a great help and thank you for always putting our safety first!

Edited March 8, 2010 by ROOR

[Christopher]

Ah ok that could very well be the case, some of the adapters we've ordered from other suppliers are pretty bad. That's why our adapters cost a little more, Jeso has them created to his specifications.

[BirdDog]

Thanks Chris and Roor for answering my question about the adapters. I have 2 adapters from the VT store and one from another source. I use the VT store adapters on the PT and the other on my 801 batteries.

Spent most of the day, yesterday, thinking about batteries, venting and pressure. My head still hurts. I guess I will go to work.

Edited March 8, 2010 by BirdDog

[jmhester]

Getting back to the RCR123A. Chris, are you saying the safest are the Tenergy LifePO4 with the silver and yellow case? That's what came with my Xhaler. I think that's what's coming with my Prodigy, too. God only knows what's coming with the Indulgence!!!

After what happened to this guy and Robert, I think it's best to ere to the side of caution!

Edited March 8, 2010 by jmhester

[TeriJo]

You folks are a waaaaaay bad influence on me. My Ego isn't even at my door yet (Out for DELIVERY it says, is it considered stalking to go to every truck and yell HEY YOU GOT MY STUFF?) and you got me thinkin bout OTHER toys. Like...just WHAT is an INDULGENCE? It sounds way yummy.

[Christopher]

@JM that is correct the batteries with the silver and yellow case.

[Vacker1229]

....But moving on... there are users experimenting with these custom mods who have absolutely no prior experience, they are delving into projects out of curiosity which is causing more harm than good. They think because they've read a DIY article they are now experts. (And they really believe it too) When you start mixing batteries and voltages you HAVE to understand the basic foundation behind power.

ABSOLUTELY the point I was trying to make earlier.

ABSOLUTELY when is "enough is enough".

I like to vape but geez!! besides the vapor is just the juice floating away, just accept the throat hit and taste and be done with all the creative mods.

ABSOLUTELY this is baddd press!! Just like the FDA saying there is antifreeze in all ecigs. They would love to get wind of this and publish the heck out of it. Just to aid their efforts to ban ecigs for eternity. and yes I am sure that clown from ASH has seen the post and the pics. That guy is a pain.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Vacker1229