Pg Dangerous? Are You Kidding!

[jmhester]

OK. I little over-sharing here. I had to go for the good old colonoscopy Monday and the prep was to ingest, get this, almost 8 grams of polyethylene glycol! Miralax is almost pure PG! I would say the "side effects" are pretty dramatic but if your friendly doc orders you to ingest nearly 8 grams of the stuff, how can the FDA say it's harmful?

[Vacker1229]

Thanks for sharing I certainly hope everything came out ok.

[ddavelarsen]

Thanks for sharing I certainly hope everything came out ok.

You do this all the time - get to the point quicker than me. And you do it so subtly! I love it, thank you.

Not to put too fine a distinction on it, but the FDA just says "no one knows" about vaping PG, so they want to make out like that's really bad. Rational thinkers realize this is pure spin. The real question is why the spin? There's either money in it or satisfaction of authority in it. Either way, not sufficient to risk lives that could be saved by quitting tobacco.

[ddavelarsen]

I failed to mention, jm, that you have my full sympathy. Believe me.

[FTJoe]

OK. I little over-sharing here. I had to go for the good old colonoscopy Monday and the prep was to ingest, get this, almost 8 grams of polyethylene glycol! Miralax is almost pure PG! I would say the "side effects" are pretty dramatic but if your friendly doc orders you to ingest nearly 8 grams of the stuff, how can the FDA say it's harmful?

I will say it every time it comes up, eating and inhaling are different. Your stomach is built for processing almost anything you can stick down your throat. The lungs are a little more touchy. I imagine you can eat plastic all day long, start inhaling it after vaporizing it and you won't make it a day.

Having said all that, I of course think it's safe, but as someone pointed out, the rationale is they don't know so they are trying to make everyone stop. Real reason IMO is money...

PS - forgot to add I hope it's just routine...

Edited January 27, 2010 by FTJoe

[jmhester]

Thanks for sharing I certainly hope everything came out ok.

Yeah. They found my head up there to which my wife said "I told you so!".

[jmhester]

On a serious note: I do understand that ingesting vs inhaling would be totally different. Does the PG absorb into the blood stream? Does it also pass through the skin like nicotine? A good test would be to see what the concentrations of PG in the blood were after vaping. Then the question becomes, is it dangerous in the long term?

I think we all agree that we are choosing the lesser of 2 evils and even vaping is probably not without it's risks.

[FTJoe]

On a serious note: I do understand that ingesting vs inhaling would be totally different. Does the PG absorb into the blood stream? Does it also pass through the skin like nicotine? A good test would be to see what the concentrations of PG in the blood were after vaping. Then the question becomes, is it dangerous in the long term?

I think we all agree that we are choosing the lesser of 2 evils and even vaping is probably not without it's risks.

I have no idea but agree it has to be WAY better. I know I ran across this a while back which made me feel better.

http://vapersclub.com/pg.html

Just saw this,

http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/3/6/627

lots of occurrences of the word minimal in there...but I don't know the amounts or if they are significant. Maybe Speakeasy has a handle on it?

I believe you only have three choices with the lungs, absorb into the bloodstream, have it come back up or it stays put.

Edited January 27, 2010 by FTJoe

[Jeffb]

I wanted to clarify something here. We vape propelyne glycol not polyethlyne glycol. There is a big difference.

[FTJoe]

A few more things, not sure these have been brought up. My point is NO one is out there actively saying PG is bad for you, we're just not positive it's okay or even good (yes - it might actually be good for you, re studies done a while ago in a children's hospital)..

http://www.ehow.com/about_5499611_danger-inhaling-propylene-glycol.html

The MSDS for PG lists it as hygroscopic, meaning it has the ability to easily retain moisture. It is classified as a stable substance under normal temperatures. Under the potential health effects, if inhaled, the MSDS states, "Low hazard for usual industrial handling and may cause mild respiratory tract irritation."

PG has been used as the aqueous-based chemical additive in asthma inhalers and nebulizers since the 1950s, with no serious side effects known. PG, because of its water-retaining properties, is the compound of choice for delivering atomized medication. It is also a common diluent for injectable medications, constituting 40 percent of the intravenous form of Phenytoin, an anti-seizure drug.

Electronic Cigarettes

Persons trying to quit smoking have recently turned to the recent invention of electronic cigarettes. Battery-powered, these devices deliver measured amounts of nicotine diluted in PG and then inhaled. A heating element within the device vaporizes the compounds, thereby allowing for easy inhalation. While many have questioned the safety of electronic cigarettes, their concerns are directed toward the inconsistent amounts of nicotine, not the PG solution in which it is delivered.

Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

The FDA includes Propylene glycol on its list of substances Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS), and it meets the requirements of acceptable compounds within Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations. Considering PG has been widely used for many years without serious side effects, the substance can reasonably said to be of negligible concern.

[FTJoe]

I wanted to clarify something here. We vape propelyne glycol not polyethlyne glycol. There is a big difference.

I always miss that, good catch. Both can be safely ingested, and the stuff we vape is generally considered safe to inhale. Long term effects still not known AFAIK. That's all. Not that folks aren't out there saying otherwise...my biggest issue is I have no idea what else might be in there that I'm taking in. If the chinese were poisoning kids toys, baby formula and pet food, you think they'd stop there? But if testing and control to the FDA means ban it, they can go stuff it.

[jmhester]

I wanted to clarify something here. We vape propelyne glycol not polyethlyne glycol. There is a big difference.

Jeff, you are absolutely right. I stand corrected. I guess they sound too much alike! Thanks for the correction!

[Lee]

I have no idea but agree it has to be WAY better. I know I ran across this a while back which made me feel better.

http://vapersclub.com/pg.html

Just saw this,

http://toxsci.oxford...bstract/3/6/627

lots of occurrences of the word minimal in there...but I don't know the amounts or if they are significant. Maybe Speakeasy has a handle on it?

I believe you only have three choices with the lungs, absorb into the bloodstream, have it come back up or it stays put.

Keep in mind, though, that PG and VG have both been used for years in theatrical fog machines. That vapor is inhaled all the time by those on stage. So there is precedent.

Added later: Oops...should have clicked on the links first.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Lee

[nana]

Other than the dr. finding your head up there, I hope everything else is just fine, jm.