Poll The First - Your Analog Type

[snubber]

I agree with some of your theory.

Started smoking 40+years ago with kent...then montclair..lucky strike...camel(non filter)..raleigh..pallmall...winston..then got into the lights...at one point I was up to 4 pks a day. So maybe there is something to your poll.

[Stirfry]

i do not agree with the "lights smokers have an easier time...":

1. i smoked Doral Menthol Lights. not because they were cheaper than "name brand" smokes, but because some lights are too light, and some full flavor are too harsh (especially menthol, namely 'Ports). Doral Menthol Lights, for lack of a better term, are basically "menthol mediums".

2. lights or not, i smoked AT LEAST 2 packs per day (and at least 3 packs from about 18-26 years old)... meaning the ritual or "habit" part (ie: the act of smoking rather than the nicotine) was WAY more ingrained in me than most people, simple because i took about double the hits/puffs per day than anyone else i know.

3. it's all relative. if you smoke 3 cigs per day, that's YOUR addiction... which is no more or less difficult to stop than my 2 pk a day habit is FOR ME.

now, the damage done to the body is very likely different, but the damage we do to ourselves has very little to do with the feeling or craving... where as the habit does... and the habit is relative to each person.

PS... i too went up and down the ladder over the past 25 years: starting with... MLB Lights, MLB Reds, Camel Filter, Camel Non-Filter (back and forth for several years with Roll Your Owns), Kool Non-Filter, Newports, various Generic Menthol and Menthol Lights, Doral Menthol Lights

Edited February 2, 2010 by Stirfry

[ddavelarsen]

Thanks for additional input gents.

Stirfry, I don't think I implied that "lights smokers have it easier" - you can read about how difficult it is for anyone to quit smoking on this forum all day. My theory - and I'm sticking to it - is that Lights smokers require less nicotine in their juice than heavy smokers do ... generally. There are exceptions, humans are a diverse bunch. But the correlation between 24 mg being the standard "extra high strength" juice and 62% of vapers having smoked Lights or Ultra Lights is undeniable. That said, I also think there's a big commitment component to a vaper's success; nicotine level is not the only ingredient.

I started this investigation because so many people freak out about me using 48mg juice. That made me curious. The fact is though, that's a big reduction in the amount of nicotine I was getting from smoking. I'm beginning to think I might start titrating down in the next few months and see how low I can get. It would sure be nice to be able to try some of that legendary Midnight or Dulcis... And it would help stretch out the last of my juice when the FDA decides to regulate it and all anyone can get anymore is 24mg, because that's what most people find "strong."

Probably it would have been more effective to combine somehow the type of analogs vapers were using with their initial successful level of nicotine. I'm still working on a nic-level poll idea, just haven't convinced myself how to present it - whether I just want to know what people started out with, or what their nicotine use path has been. Those might be two studies. I welcome suggestions.

[Ray]

Thanks for additional input gents.

Stirfry, I don't think I implied that "lights smokers have it easier" - you can read about how difficult it is for anyone to quit smoking on this forum all day. My theory - and I'm sticking to it - is that Lights smokers require less nicotine in their juice than heavy smokers do ... generally. There are exceptions, humans are a diverse bunch. But the correlation between 24 mg being the standard "extra high strength" juice and 62% of vapers having smoked Lights or Ultra Lights is undeniable. That said, I also think there's a big commitment component to a vaper's success; nicotine level is not the only ingredient.

I started this investigation because so many people freak out about me using 48mg juice. That made me curious. The fact is though, that's a big reduction in the amount of nicotine I was getting from smoking. I'm beginning to think I might start titrating down in the next few months and see how low I can get. It would sure be nice to be able to try some of that legendary Midnight or Dulcis... And it would help stretch out the last of my juice when the FDA decides to regulate it and all anyone can get anymore is 24mg, because that's what most people find "strong."

Probably it would have been more effective to combine somehow the type of analogs vapers were using with their initial successful level of nicotine. I'm still working on a nic-level poll idea, just haven't convinced myself how to present it - whether I just want to know what people started out with, or what their nicotine use path has been. Those might be two studies. I welcome suggestions.

I think you have a great idea, but I don't think it's going to be easy. It seems to take a while to find your Zone. I'm still trying. Moved from a 510 atty to the 302/801 (24mg is different between the 2) and now want to try the 36mg in the 801. I want to feel like I've actually taken some nic when I put down the PV. You know what I mean??

[kato07]

hi dave, good poll!! i had generally smoked light cigarettes for over 30 yrs, switching to ultralights several years ago.i probably smoked 2 pks a day throughout. i think the lights made it easier on the throat, smoking that much. i remember saying many times i thought a lot of the urge for me was having something to do with my hands [i,ve always been rather hyper]. quitting was amazingly easy for me with vaping. i have only used 11mg and 18 mg juice which satisfies my urges [i got a vp-pt jan 7 which coincides with my last analog], but i do vape a lot!!! but i have left over open packs, sealed packs and several cartons lying around which are of no consequence to me . i haven't taken a puff nor do i want to. i think vaping sweet fruit flavors, after the last couple of analogs tasted terrible, makes analogs about as enticing as clorox LOL!! i think vaping does provide the physical act of smoking for me, while lower nic levels may very well work for me since i smoked ultralight analogs [but i do vape a lot].i hope some of this helps your survey and thanks for the cool poll!!

[Schizophretard]

Dave,

I agree that 24 mg isn't extra high but it is just relative to our tolerance. I'm at 36 mg and still haven't broke my habit of smoking ultra lights. It is fairly easy for me to go all day at work just vaping but when I get home and everyone is going outside for a smoke I start craving analogs as if I was quitting smoking without vaping. I would think that extra high would feel like inhaling a cigar but this 36 mg feels weaker than an ultra light. Whenever I let a smoker try my 36 mg they start choking. My brother seems very interesting in vaping and I let him try some. I coached him how to hit it but he didn't listen. He just took a little puff and barely blew anything out. He looked like he was about to die though. I was jealous. I wish it did that to me.

I don't know what my problem is. I don't think it is just about the mg but the speed at which it can be delivered. I'm fine if I'm chain vaping but if I'm wanting to relax and put down my PV I'll have to have a smoke. When I first got short bridge atties they were putting off huge amounts of vapor for a few hours. I could blow it across the room. That gave me excellent psychological feed back by seeing it, so I can tell that is part of the solution. VG increases vapor, right? Maybe I need a 50/50 mix. I've noticed that the higher the mg the less flavor there is so I'm not yet willing to go to 48 like you and the higher the mg the more danger there is. I need more warmth too. Maybe when I experience 5 volts it will help.

I agree with your theory to an extent. I think there is other factors because If I vaped this 36 for a few weeks and used my will power to not have any smokes then I don't see it as very likely that there will be much improvement. If your theory was correct then after a few weeks my body should adjust to the new mg level and my problem should be solved but I don't see that happening. I don't see much of a chance of there being an improvement if I increased my dose to 48 mg. I started at 18 mg, went up to 24 mg, I thought that was going to work because there was more throat hit and it gave me a buzz, my body adjusted to that so I went up to 36 mg, and now I feel like I'm still at 18 mg but with more throat hit and less flavor.

I don't think the physical addiction is my problem. If I keep increasing the mg I'm just going to develop a tolerance. My body can adjust to any amount of nicotine and be happy but my mind can not adjust to what it needs. Give me a juice that produces more vapor than a collage student can produce smoke, a strong throat hit, a warm flavor like chocolate that the atty actually makes warm, and I could probably go back down to 18 mg.

Your theory is only correct until you factor in that our bodies adjust to the nicotine. Maybe it is harder to fine tune our vaping psychological experience if we are heavy smokers. Our minds are more addicted then our bodies. I guess what I'm trying to say is you are right that it is easier for light smokers but wrong that nicotine is the main factor.

I'm very tired and my mind is wondering but I hope that wasn't too incoherent.

[ddavelarsen]

Schizo, that make a lot of sense to me. I know that my analog addiction was more than a nicotine one, or I wouldn't still be thinking about smoking. Analogs are sneaky! I think your idea to add some VG is great. I'm planning to try that too here shortly as I begin mixing my own stuff. Your comment about less flavor at higher nic is very interesting; hopefully I'll be able to test that for myself one day.

Part of the "problem" with vaping for me is that the vapor is so 'soft' compared to smoke, and hense the perpetual search for throat hit. That's a big one. I've noticed that vapor isn't as warm as smoke, and that's something I'd like to find too; nice warm vapor. But all in all, I'm doing fairly well where I am.

Having gone back to my VP2 for a week , I think I got better flavor (but less TH) at lower voltage. Which is most important? I think I'll end up switching between 3.7 and 5V throughout the day now that I recognize a difference and find a benefit in each.

So guess what? I find I agree with you throroughly. That makes you my hero for today. I wish you well in your vaping life!

[MD864]

Lets see - I started off with Marlboro Lights, then went to winston lights mainly because it had a better flavor. But with better flavor also came with a stronger throat hit that my body just wasn't used to. In about 6 mnths i had to go back to M. lights because i stayed hoarse all the time and coughed constantly. Then i found menthols............. ah the joy of a menthol. It wasn't a joy shared by my lungs no doubt so back to m.lights for me. A couple of years later i found a less harsh menthol. Ah that joy was great until my BF wouldn't let me smoke them in his presence because to him they stunk..... Then my journey ended because i found the E-cig! Now if i want to smoke menthol chocolate covered strawberries he can't say a word LOL!!!!!

[ddavelarsen]

Now that's a plan!

[Schizophretard]

Schizo, that make a lot of sense to me. I know that my analog addiction was more than a nicotine one, or I wouldn't still be thinking about smoking. Analogs are sneaky! I think your idea to add some VG is great. I'm planning to try that too here shortly as I begin mixing my own stuff. Your comment about less flavor at higher nic is very interesting; hopefully I'll be able to test that for myself one day.

Part of the "problem" with vaping for me is that the vapor is so 'soft' compared to smoke, and hense the perpetual search for throat hit. That's a big one. I've noticed that vapor isn't as warm as smoke, and that's something I'd like to find too; nice warm vapor. But all in all, I'm doing fairly well where I am.

Having gone back to my VP2 for a week , I think I got better flavor (but less TH) at lower voltage. Which is most important? I think I'll end up switching between 3.7 and 5V throughout the day now that I recognize a difference and find a benefit in each.

So guess what? I find I agree with you throroughly. That makes you my hero for today. I wish you well in your vaping life!

The higher the mg level the less the flavor. The VG/PG carries the nicotine and the flavoring. If it is carrying more nicotine then obviously there is less room for the flavoring. I'm for sure about this. I can tell a big difference in flavor from 18 mg and 36 mg.

I agree about the vapor being "soft" compared to analogs but that doesn't have to do with just the mg level but the density of the vapor. A cloud of vapor that looks as big as a cloud of smoke is a less dense cloud. It may look the same as smoke but in your mouth, throat, and lungs it won't feel the same. It will lack that "thick" feeling. You will be getting good feed back from seeing the cloud but you would be lacking the feed back inside your mouth, throat, and lungs. Imagine that you had a e-cig that produced massive amounts of vapor. Instead of the transparent cloud of vapor you're use to seeing from your e-cig you produce a thick solid white cloud that you can blow across your living room. You're basically sucking on a fog machine. That would feel pretty thick and since you're inhaling a lot more vapor your 48 mg would feel way too strong for you to handle. You would have to lower your mg. The more dense the vapor is the less "soft" it is. So, to solve your and my "soft" vapor problem we don't have to just focus on the mg level but the amount of vapor produced. That is where experimenting with higher volts and VG comes in. We don't just have to find our mg sweet spot but also our volts, VG, and even flavor sweet spot.

Thanks! I wish you well in your vaping life also!

[ddavelarsen]

This is really timely man, thinking about DIY juice. I'm going to apply those principals as I start experimenting. Thanks Schizo!

[Schizophretard]

You're welcome! I probably would of already started DIY if I had a chart or something with the information I'm looking for. The charts I've seen give recipes in drops and are giving specific recipes. I'm wanting a chart with just the basic recipes minus the flavors and done in ml. Like if I started with 100 mg juice, a bottle of PG, a bottle of VG, and some flavoring and wanted to make a juice that was 36 mg, 50/50 PG/VG mix, in a 30 ml bottle then how many ml of each needs to be in the bottle? I'm wanting a chart that shows how to make all the mg levels in different size bottles. Basically a chart that is universal to all recipes before adding flavoring. Do you get what I'm saying? If I had a chart like that I would start ASAP!

[ddavelarsen]

I know exactly where you're coming from. I'm working on a spreadsheet now that will (presumably) give the recipe in both drops and ml. The inputs are:

• PG base strength in mg/ml (for example, 100mg/ml )
• desired strength in mg/ml (ex. 24mg)
• desired quant to make in ml (ex. 30 ml)
• percent of volume of flavoring (ex. 20% flavoring)
• percent of volume of 0 nic VG base (ex. 10% 0 nic VG)
• Y/N alcohol content (if Y, it will give number of drops or mls of Everclear)
• Y/N distilled water content (if Y, it will give number of drops or mls distilled water)
• number of drops alcohol+water per 3 ml (ex. 4 drops total alc+water per 3 ml)

It assumes that the balance of volume is 0 nic PG base. I'm just having trouble interpolating drops when it calculates fractions of a ml on any of the inputs. I'll get there but it's taking longer than I thought it would. I'm working on that (or reading here) while long macros are running...

I got started doing this based on the Clove recipe recently linked in the DIY juice forum. But doing that, or I guess any recipe with oil vs water-based flavoring, will have to be a different calculation altogether. Anyway, I'm stumped right now on this. Not a good enough spreadsheet guy...

[Schizophretard]

Something like that but with no percentages. I want only ml.

[ddavelarsen]

Something like that but with no percentages. I want only ml.

Tough cookies there big boy! I used percent for those inputs just because that's how they're always described in discussions about mixing. I think it works okay since the output is in drops and ml. If you PM me with your email I'll send it to you. I tried uploading it to the DIY forum but no enchilada. Actually that goes for anyone; PM me your email and I'll forward it to you.

[Brian]

Dave - I know you were straying from VG because the popular opinion is that you get less TH from it. However, I've seen claims elsewhere that this just isn't true. My guess is, like so many things, different strokes for different folks. While one person may find a better TH with PG, another may find it with VG. I got some 11mg Rath Waffle from ENS and got a litte TH with it at 5v (nothing at 3.7), so I'm planning to get some 26mg to see what the TH is like. I had to the 11mg for my wife to try, hoping VG would be better for her, but no dice. I really like the flavor of that Waffle. Yummy.

[ddavelarsen]

Dave - I know you were straying from VG because the popular opinion is that you get less TH from it. However, I've seen claims elsewhere that this just isn't true. My guess is, like so many things, different strokes for different folks. While one person may find a better TH with PG, another may find it with VG. I got some 11mg Rath Waffle from ENS and got a litte TH with it at 5v (nothing at 3.7), so I'm planning to get some 26mg to see what the TH is like. I had to the 11mg for my wife to try, hoping VG would be better for her, but no dice. I really like the flavor of that Waffle. Yummy.

You've "seen claims elsewhere" Bri? Like, where? Where "else" is there, besides VT? Eh?

Okay, chain yankin in back on the hook bro. I'm definitely going to try some VG in my first mixing exploits. In fact, bought some at the grocery store today - my first DIY supplies! Unless you count a couple of blank 6 ml bottles I've squirreled away. And man, I'm sure going to have to try some waffle some day soon!... That stuff's so legendary, and I love eating actual waffles so much, that it seems a no-brainer. But honestly, I haven't yet looked for waffle flavoring anywhere. I bet FF has it though. "Yummy" indeed!

[Brian]

You've "seen claims elsewhere" Bri? Like, where? Where "else" is there, besides VT? Eh?

Hehehe. I'm everywhere man!

Actually, THIS is where I saw it first. I thought about posting these claims in a new thread here to get some feedback, but decided not to.

[gnerd]

Well, Dave keeps yammering at me to add some poll commentary. <sigh> Full flavor menthol analogs, practically from day one 39 years ago. First tobacco was a RYO in a strawberry paper that Dave rolled for me. See what I had for influences growing up? But menthol was genetically programmed into me at birth it seems. Kool full flavors for most of that time, and the past couple of years Seneca full flavor menthols from the reservation. Mostly a pack a day, but bouts of multi-pack habit scattered around in the timeline.

It's more about TH than flavor for me; if it doesn't hurt it's entirely inadequate. So for vaping purposes, plenty of menthol and lots of nic. 48mg really helps that TH. And lots of voltage works. My PT was an epiphany (thanks Bro). A lot of people take smaller hits on the PT, but I favor a good, hard, long pull - more pain! That causes problems when I'm looking for a good hit off the PV2, but I've learned to compensate a bit by taking a hard hit, holding it and immediately following up with another hard hit. Eventually I'll spring for a 5v battery, but I'm cheap and want to "get my money's worth" out of the PV2.

I'm all worded out, later.

[ddavelarsen]

Hehehe. I'm everywhere man!

Actually, THIS is where I saw it first. I thought about posting these claims in a new thread here to get some feedback, but decided not to.

Cool stuff Brian! Thanks man, that's convincing me even more that I'm gonna try some VG soon. Will be refilling carry bottles tomorrow, so will give one of them a boost.

Bro, I know exactly where you're coming from! I like that hard hit too, it's why I smoked the analogs I did, and you too now that you say it like that. Hm. Voltage rules. Well, let's get ready to find your nirvana menthol vape.

But you better be careful, you're going to freak these nice people out with your talk of high nic and pain and stuff. he he! Also I noticed you haven't filled out your profile. Need to get on that. Lurking is all well and good, and at VT you can learn about everything you need to that way. But it's so much more fun to -- well, do what you're doing; freak people out. And be nice sometimes too of course. But maybe that would be asking too much too soon, eh? heh!

[JHammy]

i smoked anything from marlboro lights to 'Ports to Parly lights....i was all over the map, usually i would buy the ones that were buy 1 or 2 and get one free...as far as juice goes, to me i really dont feel a difference in the nic levels. currently i am using the Sweet Dawn flavor from VT in the 24g. but for me i dont get the same feeling of "Light headedness" that i used to get from Analogs, but i think that is what i like most about Vaping.

[ddavelarsen]

Thanks J, good info. Others have had similar experiences, so maybe I'm all wet. Figuring that out of course was my reason for this thread. It seems that people have a much more varied response to nicotine/smoking than I'd expected.

I've never gotten light-headed from smoking, even when I was eight or nine years old. And they knew how to make analogs back then! None of this 'light' silliness. Anyway, this has been a good education for me; thanks to all who have voted and commented.

I hope it keeps going; the more responses in the poll, the greater its statistic value.

[J0T]

I started with Marlboro Lights, then moved up to reds, then I did American Spirits for a while, then I smoked all varieties of Camels and Winstons until I started reading more about RYO/MYO and so I got into that because it was so much cheaper and tasted so much better, you could get some amazing tobacco for such little money it seemed ridiculous to smoke packaged cigs. Every once in a while I'd buy a pack and they'd make me sick, I got so used to nice fresh pouches of tobacco that I couldn't smoke Camels at all anymore, the chemical preservatives made me feel awful. But then this past year one of my favorite tobacco companies vanished after one of the tax increases so I had a lot fewer options, then there was another tax increase, and another, and a canister of enough tobacco to make two cartons went from being $20 to being $50, yikes...

[Knight]

Dave,

Even though I smoked about one to two packs of ultra lights a day I'm still not satisfied with 36 mg. I still smoke but just not as much. I smoke really fast. I'm the same way with drinking soda. I slam a can of coke like a college kid does beer. I look for that quick rush and so far vaping feels slow. If I don't chain vape and start to get the craving then I have to grab a smoke. I get wired really fast and come down even faster. Maybe I need the Joker and/or more mg.

That's interesting Schizo. I am the same way, smoking fast and drinking fast, but for different reasons. I tried to quit smoking so many times (and made the mistake of telling my non-smoking wife) that I had to hide my smoking habit when I started again. So I would run outside, I'd inhale a cig in seconds, downwind of course. Or, I'd run outside at work, catch a quick cig, and go back in. It got to be so even when I had plenty of time, I was smoking fast, and often times lighting 2-3 one after another.

Quickly, started on Kent (mom's cigs) as a teen. Switched to Old Gold, then Kent Golden Lights for several years. Then went to Marlboro Lights (Kent didn't come on a hard pack), and eventually Ultra Lights for about the last 5-6 years. I started vaping on 18MG, and switch between that and 11MG now. I haven't had an anaolg since my very first pull on an e-cig!

[ddavelarsen]

I started with Marlboro Lights, then moved up to reds, then I did American Spirits for a while, then I smoked all varieties of Camels and Winstons until I started reading more about RYO/MYO and so I got into that because it was so much cheaper and tasted so much better, you could get some amazing tobacco for such little money it seemed ridiculous to smoke packaged cigs. Every once in a while I'd buy a pack and they'd make me sick, I got so used to nice fresh pouches of tobacco that I couldn't smoke Camels at all anymore, the chemical preservatives made me feel awful. But then this past year one of my favorite tobacco companies vanished after one of the tax increases so I had a lot fewer options, then there was another tax increase, and another, and a canister of enough tobacco to make two cartons went from being $20 to being $50, yikes...

Man that's the truth - taxes were one of my big reasons too. I tried MYO for a while but I'm just too much instant-gratification to make that work. Well, honestly - too lazy. One of the few downsides to vaping is its complexity, but even a small amount of interest in not smoking makes that insignificant.