Socialized Medicine

[BMW]

Sooo true Brian. I am SO tired of this "Mother Government" we're turning into. Example, my wife still smokes analogs. Several states, including ours, have a law being passed tonight about "Fire Safe Cigarettes", or FSC cigs. ALL cigs sold in these states MUST be FSC. They have little "bands" woven into the paper, so if you set the cig down, it will put itself out instead of burn all the way through. WTF !!! REALLY ? Theyve already started selling them here, and for the last 2 weeks my wife has been homicidal because every time she looks down, or goes to take a puff, the cig is out ! She has to relight 1 cig about 6 times. Now, I know, maybe she'll quit now, and Id like nothing better. BUT, I am not a hypocrite, and I will DIE to protect her right to smoke, her "pursuit of happiness". I dont think for one second these were made to prevent fires. PUHLEEEZE ! Whats next, fire safe candles? Fire safe Bic Lighters? How about investing some money to prevent child abduction ? Oh no, we have to protect pedophiles rights, I forgot. And has ANYONE else noticed all these little ads on FoxNews.com and Cnn and Yahoo that say "Obama Wants Single Mothers To.." or "Obama Wants You to Go Back To School". This stuff is scaring the living daylights outta me, I swear. This is what they do in China. In Vietnam. In Korea. They Diefy there leader, make them God Like. I DO NOT like Obama, but he is my freely elected President, and I will acknowledge that, but I am SO close to crossing the line, because I expect HIM to be the first one to say "Stop This Nonsense" Mother Government HAS to go !. Whew. Sorry, BIG rant there. Last one of this year, I promise.

Does anyone recall the speech Obama made right after he was elected? He said " We are four days away from "fundamentally" changing America". He is hell bent for leather to do just that. Obamacare gives the Govt. 57 percent control of our country. This isn't about health care. And would someone please give me an example of one thing the Govt. has ran that has actually made a profit! The private sector is being taken over and cap and trade will be the straw that breaks our backs.

[Brian]

Don't get me started on cap and tax.

I think it varies by state as to whether an independent can vote in the primary.

I registered independent also, but reckon I'll have to change to Republican if I want to have a say in who the candidate will be.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Brian

[BMW]

Youll be able to vote in the general election, but you MAY not be able to vote in the primarys, if an Independant candidate isnt running. Thats how I believe it works, someone correct me if Im wrong. But Ill do some checking and get back to ya anyway BMW. A few years ago, my wife registered as an Indy, cause she thought it meant SHE was independant. I explained to her that, no, its a party, just like Dems and Repubs, and now thats your party. She couldnt vote in the primary that year. Then, after I, and my whole family told her that she would have to register as a Republican or be sacrificed in a fire on top of the Andes mountains, she saw the light.

Well that just breaks my heart. I've made signs, gone to tea partys, written and called senators and congressman and bored my friends to tears trying to wake them up and get involved--and now I can't vote! I, like your wife, thought it meant I was free to choose whomever I wanted. This election is so important and I'm going to have to sit on the sidelines. I think I'm going to be sick!

[keenan]

Does anyone recall the speech Obama made right after he was elected? He said " We are four days away from "fundamentally" changing America". He is hell bent for leather to do just that. Obamacare gives the Govt. 57 percent control of our country. This isn't about health care. And would someone please give me an example of one thing the Govt. has ran that has actually made a profit! The private sector is being taken over and cap and trade will be the straw that breaks our backs.

Its not just Obama. Its the whole bus. Pelosi, Obama, Boxer,Clinton, Biden.....etc. They have an agenda that they are hell bent on FORCE feeding down the throats of everybody. And, somehow, we gave them ALL the power. Thomas Jefferson said " Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 % of the people tell the other 49 % what to do". Well, THIS 51 % that are in power now scare the CRAP outta me.

[keenan]

Well that just breaks my heart. I've made signs, gone to tea partys, written and called senators and congressman and bored my friends to tears trying to wake them up and get involved--and now I can't vote! I, like your wife, thought it meant I was free to choose whomever I wanted. This election is so important and I'm going to have to sit on the sidelines. I think I'm going to be sick!

NO BMW, You WILL absolutely be able to vote. Definitly in the General (Presidential) elections. Definitly in the Senate, Congress, and Gov. elections. Just the primaries are where you might not be able to, and like Brian said, you might be able to, check with your state. I usually dont vote the primarys anyway ( although I should ).

[BMW]

Its not just Obama. Its the whole bus. Pelosi, Obama, Boxer,Clinton, Biden.....etc. They have an agenda that they are hell bent on FORCE feeding down the throats of everybody. And, somehow, we gave them ALL the power. Thomas Jefferson said " Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 % of the people tell the other 49 % what to do". Well, THIS 51 % that are in power now scare the CRAP outta me.

I agree 100 percent and each and every one of them is a progressive. They honestly believe their morally superior to everyone else. As a conservative, I still want to help my neighbor if "I so choose" but I want to help him help himself. A progressive strives for "dependents" because they know whats best for one and all. Wasn't it Reagon who said "GOVN'T CAN'T FIX THE PROBLEM. GOVN'T IS THE PROBLEM". It was along those lines anyway.

I believe we need to open the state boarders so our health insurance can go with us just like our car insurance. When you only have three or four insurance companys to choose from in your state you create a monopoly and price fixing amongst the insurance companys. Tort reform. Create a cap for malpractice claims. This would help to get the greedy lawyers out of the mix and Doctors wouldn't be forced to carry muti-million dollar malpractice insurance, the cost of which always gets passed on to the patients. Then put the Govn't to work cleaning up the graft and curruption in their own programs-medicade and medicare. All of the above solutions were figured out by much greating minds then my own. But you know how it goes-"great minds think alike".

[Brian]

I believe we need to open the state boarders so our health insurance can go with us just like our car insurance. When you only have three or four insurance companys to choose from in your state you create a monopoly and price fixing amongst the insurance companys. Tort reform. Create a cap for malpractice claims. This would help to get the greedy lawyers out of the mix and Doctors wouldn't be forced to carry muti-million dollar malpractice insurance, the cost of which always gets passed on to the patients. Then put the Govn't to work cleaning up the graft and curruption in their own programs-medicade and medicare. All of the above solutions were figured out by much greating minds then my own. But you know how it goes-"great minds think alike".

Hmmm, that sounds just like something I said in another thread a few weeks ago. I like the way you think. It is scary that they (this administration) really do believe that they know what's best for everyone. Sad really.

[BMW]

I had never heard of the firesafe cigarettes until after I starting vaping. I'd been getting a sick feeling and a lot of headaches for the last couple of months of smoking and after I heard about the firesafe crap and heard about the side effects, I knew that's what had been causing my problem. All those things cleared up the day I quit smoking.

Obama wants people to go to school? Interesting. Wonder why that is? My husband works for a place that will pay for you to go to college if it's for something to do with their business. He has wanted to do it for years, but they only reimbursed you later for what you paid. We could never afford it, so he didn't do it. Now there is a college that will accept payments after the class is finished, so he signed up and is going for his Masters. Great, right? Then he finds out they will only pay for so many credit hours a year and it will take longer than he'd planned, but hey, it's free, right? Not quite. He just got his check to send to the school and found out that after just so much money for school, the government decides you have to pay them. The check did not cover the whole cost of $4,000. because they had to take $1,200. out for taxes. Nice, huh? Now he has to take even less classes a year so we don't have the taxes to pay. That, or plan ahead and try to come up with the extra money ourselves. But to find this out, right before Christmas...not such good news.

Your delima reminds me of the "cash for Clunkers". How many people realized the "cash" has to be declared as income on their taxes?

[BMW]

Heres another IMPORTANT e mail I just recieved. I signed up. This is a MUST !

On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a

two-page amendment courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn that would

require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new

government-run health plan. It took me less than a minute to sign up

to require our congressmen and senators to drink at the same trough!

Three cheers for Congressman John Fleming of Louisiana !

Congressman John Fleming ( Louisiana physician) has proposed an

amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same

healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are

curiously exempt).

Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and

sign his petition (very simple - just first, last (optional) and email (required). I have

immediately done just that at:

http://fleming.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=55&sectiontree=29,55>

http://fleming.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=55&sectiontree=29,55

Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congressmen should have

to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families.

To do otherwise is the height of hypocrisy!

Please pass this on!!

Done. Thanks for the heads up!

[BMW]

I'm sorry Brian, I'm sad to say I didn't see your post as I just recently joined, 12/24/09. But I still think great minds think alike.

[nana]

Of course great minds think alike. Why do you think we all get along so well in here?

@BMW - I don't know about where you live, but here, you can change your party on your registration so that you can vote in the primary's. That way you have a say about who gets into the party you are registered with. Then, if you want, you can change it back to independent before the general election and then can vote for whoever you want. Just a thought.

I'm really enjoying this thread.

[Brian]

I'm sorry Brian, I'm sad to say I didn't see your post as I just recently joined, 12/24/09. But I still think great minds think alike.

No need to appoligize! Just thought it was cool.

[Brian]

Of course great minds think alike. Why do you think we all get along so well in here?

I have to admit that sometimes I feel completely inadequate to participate in some of the discussion that go on here.

[BMW]

Of course great minds think alike. Why do you think we all get along so well in here?

@BMW - I don't know about where you live, but here, you can change your party on your registration so that you can vote in the primary's. That way you have a say about who gets into the party you are registered with. Then, if you want, you can change it back to independent before the general election and then can vote for whoever you want. Just a thought.

I'm really enjoying this thread.

Well nana, I live in Calif. a very progressive state (that also happens to be bankrupt). I will deffantly look into changing my affliation for the primary's. Being Calif. I could probable become a democrate in the blink of an eye whereas changing to Republican will require reams of paper work. Just being snide. I appriciate the info--I love this forum!

[Brian]

Well nana, I live in Calif. a very progressive state (that also happens to be bankrupt). I will deffantly look into changing my affliation for the primary's. Being Calif. I could probable become a democrate in the blink of an eye whereas changing to Republican will require reams of paper work. Just being snide. I appriciate the info--I love this forum!

In Cali it looks like the republican primary is closed, so only registered republicans can vote to decide who the republican presidential candidate will be. The dem primary is simi-closed, so independents can vote in that one.

Wow - my 500th post.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Brian

[BMW]

I have to admit that sometimes I feel completely inadequate to participate in some of the discussion that go on here.

Well, let me just say you hide it well as you come across as bright and informed and I really enjoy your posts. I, on the other hand, have discovered I can no longer remember how to spell or punctuate properly since my surgery. I often feel self conscious, stupid and so frustrated.

Posting can be a real struggle as I can lose my train of thought in an instant and have to smoke an anolog while I try to retrive it. I know I'm going to be a real pain to everyone here when I get my first ecig. I don't comprehind written directions very well. This is all said to be temporary so look out. Your all bound to be amazed at my brillance. PS: How do you grab one of those emoticons and put it in your post?

[nana]

@ BMW - When you are typing a post, look just above the box you are typing in. There is a smiley face up there. Click on it and a box will magically appear to off to the right side. It will be full of all the different emoticons available. Click on one of those and it will then magically appear in your post. To close that box and get it out of your way, just click on the smiley face above one more time and...you guessed it, the box will magically disappear.

[nana]

I have to admit that sometimes I feel completely inadequate to participate in some of the discussion that go on here.

Seriously, Brian? You do a great job! I find your discussion excellent, to the point, and very intelligent. But I know how you feel. I feel the same way. Given enough time, I know that I can write very well, but I don't always have the time as these discussion go quite quickly. I don't always get things said exactly the way I want them said. Then I wonder if people will take me wrong and be offended. But I'm learning to not let it bother me so much because everyone here is so understanding and I would usually have time to correct myself. But really, I enjoy reading your posts.

And congrats on your accomplishment of reaching 500 posts!!!

[BMW]

@ BMW - When you are typing a post, look just above the box you are typing in. There is a smiley face up there. Click on it and a box will magically appear to off to the right side. It will be full of all the different emoticons available. Click on one of those and it will then magically appear in your post. To close that box and get it out of your way, just click on the smiley face above one more time and...you guessed it, the box will magically disappear.

Thanks nana Thats what I kinda thought but I got the word "thumbsup" and no icon. lets see what happens. What do ya know!!

Edited January 2, 2010 by BMW

[BMW]

In Cali it looks like the republican primary is closed, so only registered republicans can vote to decide who the republican presidential candidate will be. The dem primary is simi-closed, so independents can vote in that one.

Wow - my 500th post.

Wow, Congatulations! I think I'm 472 posts behind you . Awe, but who's counting? Well, thats rather depressing news about the primary's. Now talk about feeling inadaquate. Where did you get the primary info. for Calif.?

[Brian]

Seriously, Brian?

Yep, me. I'm not beaming with self confidence, never have. You and BMW are too kind - I appreciate the supportive feedback.

@BMW - you're doing great. As for spelling, I keep an empty word doc open and often have to check the spelling of words I use. Wish Chris would get a spell check on here. Honestly, I've been using computers so long I can't spell for crap anymore. I read about the primary at wikipedia, and also found some other articles that verified it. I couldn't find anything "official" on the Califoria gov or voter pages. However, it sounds like this is not set in stone from year to year and can change. I also saw something about being able to change your affiliation for a day to be able to vote. You'll definatley have to check into it further.

[Galex]

I think this article from the Atlantic Monthly should be required reading for everyone who wants to discuss the Health Care issue:

How American Health Care Killed My Father

You may not agree with his conclusions, but he outlays the problems in our current system better than just about anyone else I've ever seen.

I've worked on both the provider (hospital) and payer (insurance) side of things. It ain't pretty no matter which side of the aisle you're on. I had the pleasure of trying to get coverage for myself when I was briefly unemployed and let me tell you THAT is a complete nightmare. I have slightly high blood pressure which is completely under control through one of the cheapest meds around ($4 with or without insurance for 30 tablets). I've never had a coronary incident, my HDL/LDL levels are great and yet I could not get even catastrophic coverage from 2 insurers. That my friends is broken.

I'm a big believer that no insurance company should be publicly traded. We should move back to the system we had about 20 years ago where insurers were not supposed to be earning huge profits to satisfy shareholders -- instead they were there to be stewards of the premiums that were being paid and trying to make sure that the pool of money they had was enough to cover the needs of those they insured. Insurance companies were often local or regional. I feel the same way about hospitals -- being accountable to shareholders is not a good way to run an institution that is supposed to be caring for the health of the community. And let me tell you that as soon as these companies go public, all they talk about is 'what's good for the shareholders' -- I've been through 2 organizations going public and it was a very disheartening experience. I fail to understand why a company being publicly traded is viewed as the only way to inject competition into a system. It isn't. Even organizations that are non-profit have a healthy sense of competition and understand the need for innovation.

Next year I'll be switching to an HSA (healthcare savings account) and hopefully I'll be able to make a go of it. At least then I'll know where my money is going.

[keenan]

Galex, that was absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much, and you are right, it SHOULD be required reading ! The article has a fantastic new phrase in it that I am adopting. The writers Grandmother always said - " Money is Honey, but Health is Wealth ". And I TOTALLY agree with the premise of the article, I have always said it, just not as eloquently. The system cannot be fixed with blame throwing. It needs to be revamped from the bottum up. Its broken. Its dysfunctional. We need to start over, from the beginning. Not the middle. Thanks again Galex. You get four stars for that one !

[Brian]

Excellent post Galex - Thanks you. While reading that it reminded me of something that happened about a month ago. At work I opted out of vision insurance and just increased the amount I put in flex spending account. Figured I wasn't likely to spend more than what the premium was in a year anyhow. So, my wife takes my daughter (6 years old) to get an eye exam and glasses. When getting ready to pay the bill, of course they ask for her insurance info. My wife said that we don't have insurance, we'll be paying for it. So the lady calls the doctor and explains that we don't have insurane and the doctor changes the bill!!! He took almost $100 off the bill! Total BS!

[BirdDog]

Excellent post Galex - Thanks you. While reading that it reminded me of something that happened about a month ago. At work I opted out of vision insurance and just increased the amount I put in flex spending account. Figured I wasn't likely to spend more than what the premium was in a year anyhow. So, my wife takes my daughter (6 years old) to get an eye exam and glasses. When getting ready to pay the bill, of course they ask for her insurance info. My wife said that we don't have insurance, we'll be paying for it. So the lady calls the doctor and explains that we don't have insurane and the doctor changes the bill!!! He took almost $100 off the bill! Total BS!

This happened to me a few months ago also. I have no health insurance because I have no job. I needed to get a TB test and a physical for some classes that I was taking. Because I paid cash I got a 20% discount. They reason behind this is that they are not having to wait 30-90 days to receive payment from a insurance company. After working in a family business for 15 years and having to do collections and other various bill paying activities, this makes total sense to me.

For example, a customer comes in and places a order and they are on net 30 days but they take 60 days to pay the bill. Meanwhile the business owner has purchased goods to fulfill that order and also has a payroll to make. So the business owner draws from a line of credit, which charges interest, to pay the bills. They need to do this in order to stay current with their vendors so they can continue to order the goods to continue conducting business. When the customer finally pays the bill, the money is then rotated to pay down the revolving line of credit. The business owner actually ends up losing a little extra money because of the interest on the loan.

So the $100 that the doctor subtracted was probably the cost of the interest he was going to have to pay while waiting for the insurance company to send him a check. Insurance companies won't pay interest because they drag their feet in processing the claim and they think they are exempt or above having to do so. The easiest way is to charge it up front. So then it gets passed down to the patient, higher premiums and larger co-pays.

This is the problem with the system. It trickles down and because we are at the bottom, we ended up paying for it all. I do know of the health care savings account and I am not sure how it works and what the benefits/penalties are but it is something I am going to look into when I get back on my feet.

I hope that all made sense. I know most of this was covered in the article, but I found it very confusing and thought I might try to explain it in more simple terms.

I should also add that insurance companies also have a tendency to pay what they think the bill should actually cost. This also will add a loss the the doctors office. My mom used to do insurance billing for a doctor and we have had many discussions regarding how this works. When my dad had his stroke, we had Kaiser insurance. They contract with certain hospitals in our area. Kaiser sent out statements with all the itemized charges from the hospital. It was really interesting to see what the hospital would have charged and what Kaiser ended up negotiating with the hospital.

Edited January 3, 2010 by BirdDog