Battery Life question

[Edna]

Hey all!

I've been using LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 20A 3.7v Rechargeables. in my eleaf 60W and my eleaf Pico since May. Should they be wearing out already? I charge them in a Nitecore 2 slot battery charger never in the mod. I alternate them one charging one in use. How often should I be buying new batteries? I was thinking about getting the brown LG's next or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks for any input...

Edna

[FXRich]

I'm using some LG HG2 batteries that are well over a year old, and they are still going strong. I have one battery that I know is over 2 years old, and is still a good battery. The brown LG HG2 batteries are 3000mAh batteries, and are rated at 20A, I run them in all my mods even in my 160w mod. I don't run high wattage, and they work good and last longer. The max your Pico will put out is 60w so they would be a safe battery to use.

I guess your Pico is 75w, should still be safe, unless you run a coil below .2 ohms.

Edited August 15, 2016 by FXRich

[Edna]

34 minutes ago, FXRich said:

I'm using some LG HG2 batteries that are well over a year old, and they are still going strong. I have one battery that I know is over 2 years old, and is still a good battery. The brown LG HG2 batteries are 3000mAh batteries, and are rated at 20A, I run them in all my mods even in my 160w mod. I don't run high wattage, and they work good and last longer. The max your Pico will put out is 60w so they would be a safe battery to use.

I guess your Pico is 75w, should still be safe, unless you run a coil below .2 ohms.

@FXRich

Hi and thanks,

I don't go below 0.2ohms except the one time I goofed when I was learning to build my coils and I ripped them out quickly thanks to the great advice I got here.

 I usually build single 0.3ohm or 0.5 ohm coils for my Avocado on the 60W TC and I have .2 coils for my pico's ijust 2 and melo III tanks (they are the same coils that came with the tanks). It seems that they don't stay charged as long as they used to.... maybe I'm vaping more because I'm stressed and just don't realize it.

Thanks.

[Adversarious1]

Agree with everything FXRich said, but wanted to add my own 2 cents...

It sounds like you only have 2 batteries.  I would suggest buying at least 4 more.  You never know when you're really going to need those back-ups.  When you buy them, make sure you mark them.  Personally I would dedicate 2 batteries to each of the mods you have in rotation (mark them 1A/1B, 2A/2B or Eleaf 60wA/Eleaf 60wB and PicoA/PicoB or in some manner that works for you).

[FXRich]

Using a 75w mod, with a subtank mini using the RBA with a .5 coil I get 2 tanks with a LG HG2 battery, using the dual battery 160w I usually get 4 - 5 tanks between charges. It is said that if you don't drain the battery completely between charges they will last longer. I change the battery when the indicator gets down to a single bar, and don't wait until the battery indicator starts to flash. But that's me.

[jasonculp]

4 hours ago, Edna said:

Hey all!

I've been using LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 20A 3.7v Rechargeables. in my eleaf 60W and my eleaf Pico since May. Should they be wearing out already? I charge them in a Nitecore 2 slot battery charger never in the mod. I alternate them one charging one in use. How often should I be buying new batteries? I was thinking about getting the brown LG's next or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks for any input...

Edna

The Pico and 60W is safe as long as you don't run it over 60 watts....lol  Ohms of your coil makes no difference in battery draw in a regulated (or temp control device) only the watts you have it set at.  HG2's are a great battery, and I might suggest a Samsung 30Q which is equally as good of a battery.  It is only rated at 15A but tests show it's discharge rates are equal to the HG2.

I still run HE2s, and 25Rs and I can tell I get noticeably less run-time than I get from my 30Qs and HG2s.

I would second what @Adversarious1 said.  I would get at a minimum 2 more.  This also makes them last a bit longer as you spread the charge/discharge cycles over 4 batteries.  I am not organized enough to keep up with what battery goes to what mod, but I do put the date and where I bought it on each battery.

[FXRich]

Most people with variable wattage mods never use max watts, For safety reasons I don't use a coil that will draw more than 20A from the battery at max watts, that's the reason I recommended no lower than .2 ohms. a .2 coil at 75w will draw about 20A from the battery. With the dual battery mods I have the batteries are in series, so even though there are 2 of them the amps stay the same, at 160w with a .2 coil it will pull about 39A from the batteries, which is not safe in my opinion. Its just my way of thinking.

[jasonculp]

If you are talking variable wattage, your coil has absolutely no bearing on the amount of amperage pulled from your battery.  At 75 watts on a single mod with any coil you put on it with a 90% efficient board will pull around 23.6A from your battery.  75 watts / 3.5V (low cut off for most mods) * 1.1 for 90% efficiency = 25.6 amps.  Please feel free to check me out at Steam Engine  Make sure to change the settings to Regulated Device and Power Regulation (VW).  I also change the voltage to the lowest  voltage most Variable Wattage mods will run (3.5 Volts) this is the most dangerous time for a battery in a Variable Wattage mod (Exactly opposite of a Mechanical).  You can then run the atomizer ohms up and down as much as you want and you will notice that the battery drain does not change.  The reason for this is simple.  A Variable Wattage mod has a DC/DC converter, some use Pulse Width Modulation, some are just direct DC/DC (think of a 12V to 120V converter).    This is why using the example above with a 1 ohm coil you can supply 8.66 Volts to the atomizer from a 3.7V battery.  (Ohm's Law = 1 ohm @ 75 watts requires 8.66 volts)  in order to supply 75 watts to the atomizer, you must pull 75 watts from the battery.  If you use Ohm's law again, you see that it requires 21.43 amps at 3.5 volts to produce 75 watts.  We then must add about 10% for losses in the DC/DC converter so you come up with 25.6 Amps drawn from the battery.

I have seen people say that Ohm's law does not apply to a Variable Wattage mod, but this is untrue, Ohm's law is a law. 

It is just must be applied correctly, or it can be dangerous.  If you try to calculate a regulated mod like a mechanical mod 3.7V with a .2 ohm coil is close to 68.5 watts and 18.5 Amps draw on the battery, but on a regulated mod it requires 21.52 Amps from the battery.

One more important fact is a Mechanical Mod gets safer as the battery drains (less amps) a Variable Wattage mod gets more dangerous as the battery drains (more amps).

[FXRich]

I got my info from steam engine to start with

A .5 coil at 75w will supply 6.12V and 12.25A to the coil

A .2 coil at 75w will supply 3.87V and 19.36A to the coil

that's using 90% efficiency

I used the battery drain tab, the way I read it a lower resistance coil draws more amps at the same watts

I like discussions like this, it makes me use my 2 brain cells. 

 

[FXRich]

Just to double check it I switched my 120w to power mode, and set it to 75w with a .51 coil when I hit the fire button it read 6.22V now I have to change the coil because I think I fried it, needed changing anyway.

[FXRich]

Now I see what you are talking about, you are referring to the drain on the battery not what goes to the coil. But doesn't that change depending on whether the battery is fully charged or almost drained. the wattage stays the same but not the amps when the battery gets low. it seems to me when the voltage drops more amps are needed. Unless a constant voltage is supplied to the board. A charged battery runs 4 - 4.2V most of the batteries I have will go down to 3.5V before needing a charge that's a .7V difference.

[Edna]

15 hours ago, Adversarious1 said:

Agree with everything FXRich said, but wanted to add my own 2 cents...

It sounds like you only have 2 batteries.  I would suggest buying at least 4 more.  You never know when you're really going to need those back-ups.  When you buy them, make sure you mark them.  Personally I would dedicate 2 batteries to each of the mods you have in rotation (mark them 1A/1B, 2A/2B or Eleaf 60wA/Eleaf 60wB and PicoA/PicoB or in some manner that works for you).

Thanks, I do have 4 batteries for each mod two are rotated and 2 are back ups. Yes I label them and they're married to the device. I also rotate their position each time I charge them in the charger. I'm thinking I just got a bad batch from Amazon. Thanks for the advice though.

9 hours ago, FXRich said:

Most people with variable wattage mods never use max watts, For safety reasons I don't use a coil that will draw more than 20A from the battery at max watts, that's the reason I recommended no lower than .2 ohms. a .2 coil at 75w will draw about 20A from the battery. With the dual battery mods I have the batteries are in series, so even though there are 2 of them the amps stay the same, at 160w with a .2 coil it will pull about 39A from the batteries, which is not safe in my opinion. Its just my way of thinking.

Thanks again, I generally vape at around 25-30 W so I didn't think I was putting much strain on the batteries.

[jasonculp]

6 hours ago, FXRich said:

Now I see what you are talking about, you are referring to the drain on the battery not what goes to the coil. But doesn't that change depending on whether the battery is fully charged or almost drained. the wattage stays the same but not the amps when the battery gets low. it seems to me when the voltage drops more amps are needed. Unless a constant voltage is supplied to the board. A charged battery runs 4 - 4.2V most of the batteries I have will go down to 3.5V before needing a charge that's a .7V difference.

I struggled with with this quite a while.  I was originally taught to calculate everything like a mechanical mod, but it didn't make sense.  How could a battery at 4.2 - 3.5 Volts supply 6+ Volts to the coil.  It took an "old timer", from another board, quite a few posts to get it beat into my thick skull...lol

The battery can't supply a constant voltage, but it will supply a constant power (watts).  You are exactly correct, as voltage drops, your Amps go up.  The difference at 75 watts goes from 19.84A with a fully charged battery (4.2V) to 23.81A with a battery at 3.5V.

I am like you, I really enjoy the nerd discussions.  Poor @Edna gets caught up in my OCD, Nerd Rant when she is just asking about how to extend battery life...lol

Bottom line for you @Edna is that if you are using a regulated mod and running 25 - 30 watts, a HG2 or Samsung 30Q batteries would be a great investment for you.  You will notice a difference.  I run a NEBOX at 25 watts.  With the HE2/HE4 batteries, I change them before I leave work (5:00) but with the HG2 or 30Q, I normally change them late in the evening around 9:00 - 10:00.  I personally keep 6 (or more) charged at one time, but I never know when I am going to have to jump and run out of town for work.

[FXRich]

Its a bit off subject, but I believe steam engine needs to update some of their data. I can't find any of my TC mods in the mod range section, also the battery drain section should give the option of dual or triple battery choice, I have found if I substitute 7V for 3.5V input voltage it makes a big difference on battery drain. At 100w it only pulls 15.87A from the batteries, but will output 22.36A to the coil when using a .2 coil. makes me feel better about dual batteries in series. Previously I only considered output amps and not input amps, which are different using a regulated mod. I don't know why I'm figuring out high wattage drain on the battery, because I use TC if the mod is TC capable, and except for the initial surge the watts vary so much.

[Edna]

9 hours ago, jasonculp said:

.  Poor @Edna gets caught up in my OCD, Nerd Rant when she is just asking about how to extend battery life...lol

Bottom line for you @Edna is that if you are using a regulated mod and running 25 - 30 watts, a HG2 or Samsung 30Q batteries would be a great investment for you.  You will notice a difference.  I run a NEBOX at 25 watts.  With the HE2/HE4 batteries, I change them before I leave work (5:00) but with the HG2 or 30Q, I normally change them late in the evening around 9:00 - 10:00.  I personally keep 6 (or more) charged at one time, but I never know when I am going to have to jump and run out of town for work.

Hi @jasonculp

Thanks so much for the advice but yes you're speaking over my head when you get going   my problem is I put a newly charged battery in at 5am and by 2ish it's flashing at me. Whereas before I could go all day and into the next morning before I'd have to pop in a new battery.  I ordered a couple of the the brown Lg Hg2 Inr 18650 hg2 20a 3000mah instead of the red HE2's that I have been using hopefully they'll be better.

If not I'll try getting the Samsung 30Q  you're recommending.

I think I just maybe have been vaping more than normal I don't know but I'll figure it out.

Thanks guys for all your help

 

 

[jasonculp]

3 hours ago, FXRich said:

Its a bit off subject, but I believe steam engine needs to update some of their data. I can't find any of my TC mods in the mod range section, also the battery drain section should give the option of dual or triple battery choice, I have found if I substitute 7V for 3.5V input voltage it makes a big difference on battery drain. At 100w it only pulls 15.87A from the batteries, but will output 22.36A to the coil when using a .2 coil. makes me feel better about dual batteries in series. Previously I only considered output amps and not input amps, which are different using a regulated mod. I don't know why I'm figuring out high wattage drain on the battery, because I use TC if the mod is TC capable, and except for the initial surge the watts vary so much.

I agree the data needs to be updated.

One thing to think of with the configuration of the batteries is that with a regulated mod it really doesn't matter.  As you know, on a series mod your amp value is the that of the single battery (2-20A batteries in a series has approximately 20A capacity @ 7.4V) with a parallel mod you spread the load between the batteries (2-20A batteries have a 40A capacity at 3.7V)  The funny thing is the math works out the same for both - 75W/7V*1.1=11.79A pulled from the batteries in a series mod & 75W/3.5V*1.1=23.57/2 cells = 11.79A in a parallel mod.

Now something I really need to figure out is how a triple 18650 mod works.  Are these regulated only?  I checked the RX200 the other day and they are wired in a series, so you have 11.1V available.  The DNA 200 is the same way with a lipo pack or.  How would one correctly calculate the battery draw on it.  I have always calculated it like the normal Variable Wattage mods, but am not 100% sure this is correct.   It does have a 2 completely different circuits, but, I don't know...

TC does add a layer of safty and complexity to a mod.  In preheat you might exceed you max amperage draw for a split second, but with all of mine it quickly regulates the power (watts) quickly down to maintain temp.  So your amp draw should be much less, but this has never resulted in a longer lasting battery, for me anyway.

1 hour ago, Edna said:

Hi @jasonculp

Thanks so much for the advice but yes you're speaking over my head when you get going   my problem is I put a newly charged battery in at 5am and by 2ish it's flashing at me. Whereas before I could go all day and into the next morning before I'd have to pop in a new battery.  I ordered a couple of the the brown Lg Hg2 Inr 18650 hg2 20a 3000mah instead of the red HE2's that I have been using hopefully they'll be better.

If not I'll try getting the Samsung 30Q  you're recommending.

I think I just maybe have been vaping more than normal I don't know but I'll figure it out.

Thanks guys for all your help

 

 

Sorry, I go all nerdy at the drop of a hat!

I really can't explain why your batteries would degrade that fast.  I have not had many batteries that have "gone bad" on me.  In fact most of the time, they just die.

I feel like you will like the HG2s much better than what you have. The 30Q is exactly the same as the HG2 in my opinion.  (there are differences, but  I have found that due to the popularity of the HG2, I could pick up the 30Qs cheaper

[FXRich]

I don't know for sure because I don't have one to take apart, but I have heard rumors that the RX200 has 2 batteries in parallel, and 1 in series, which would explain how a RX 2/3 works. A different chipset would be needed for 2 batteries in series compared to 3 batteries in series, because the supplied  voltage is different. Unless something is built into the covers to compensate for the different voltage. It is also possible they do something that we have not considered yet. As to using TC the extra power needed to operate the TC might offset any power saved by reducing the watts, I don't notice a difference in battery life either.

[Edna]

11 hours ago, jasonculp said:

Sorry, I go all nerdy at the drop of a hat!

I really can't explain why your batteries would degrade that fast.  I have not had many batteries that have "gone bad" on me.  In fact most of the time, they just die.

I feel like you will like the HG2s much better than what you have. The 30Q is exactly the same as the HG2 in my opinion.  (there are differences, but  I have found that due to the popularity of the HG2, I could pick up the 30Qs cheaper

@jasonculp@FXRich@Adversarious1

Hi and no worries!

I learn a lot reading all of your posts and I'm sure I haven't made a stupid mistake because of them   I'm still fairly new to vaping and appreciate any advice I can get and you're all very generous with yours. Thanks tons!

[Adversarious1]

1 hour ago, Edna said:

@jasonculp@FXRich@Adversarious1

Hi and no worries!

I learn a lot reading all of your posts and I'm sure I haven't made a stupid mistake because of them   I'm still fairly new to vaping and appreciate any advice I can get and you're all very generous with yours. Thanks tons!

We all had to start somewhere.  I was fortunate enough to stumble across these forums not long after I started vaping.  I learned a lot, picked up on some things quicker than others and have enjoyed my time here.  Paying it forward by passing on my own experiences, knowledge and opinions is my way of repaying those who taught me. 

[NoellEagan]

Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge the brown LG HG2 batteries are 3000mAh batteries, and are rated at 20A, I run them in all my mods even in my 160w mod. I don't run high wattage, and they work good and last longer. The max your Pico will put out is 60w so they would be a safe battery to use.I guess your Pico is 75w, should still be safe, unless you run a coil below .2 ohms.