New Health Care Plan - For Or Against?

[Christopher]

Here is a quick breakdown of the bill. Click Here

It looks like this will make it through, so the question begs to be asked, are you for or against this new plan? (Keep your tempers in check)

[Schizophretard]

I'm against it because health care isn't a right.

[Christopher]

I personally have mixed feelings on this. I think life should be a right but healthcare well...

The problem with this plan is, I'm sure there are those that can't afford healthcare and you know what, I think in some way as fellow human beings we should allow them the right to a healthy life. The problem however is the low life lazy idiots that will end up milking this system. Do I think this bill is the right choice? No I don't. I also don't think what we have already isn't great either. Unfortunately money corrupts. I don't think you should be denied medical coverage because you have a pre existing condition, isn't that why you need the insurance in the first place? Then when you already have insurance they deny you for a heart transplant because you only have *** or because the death panel says no. I hope those "death panels" burn in hell.

Health insurance companies are publicly traded companies so it's against the law for them not to maximize profits. So of course this places a bit of a conflict.

I honestly think that stricter laws set in place to regulate not only insurance companies but hospitals as well could have helped solve this issue.

[StevenP]

I personally have mixed feelings on this. I think life should be a right but healthcare well...

The problem with this plan is, I'm sure there are those that can't afford health care and you know what, I think in some way as fellow human beings we should allow them the right to a healthy life. The problem however is the low life lazy idiots that will end up milking this system. Do I think this bill is the right choice? No I don't. I also don't think what we have already isn't great either. Unfortunately money corrupts. I don't think you should be denied medical coverage because you have a pre existing condition, isn't that why you need the insurance in the first place? Then when you already have insurance they deny you for a heart transplant because you only have *** or because the death panel says no. I hope those "death panels" burn in hell.

Health insurance companies are publicly traded companies so it's against the law for them not to maximize profits. So of course this places a bit of a conflict.

I honestly think that stricter laws set in place to regulate not only insurance companies but hospitals as well could have helped solve this issue.

You pretty much said what I think, Chris...

Normally, I'd stay out of topics like this, cause some people can be really zealous about it. But I figure VTer are more open to hearing others thoughts about it without causing a firestorm.

I'm pretty mixed about it, I do believe there should be some type of reform to these health companies that are milking the system. What worries me the most about the health care issue is people milking it, or try to get a free ride off it, increase of tax or screwing up something that is already established that works. (If there is one?)

For example, a few years back, before the whole health care thing came up, I was shopping around for health insurance, I found out, If your a woman, you pay more for your health care simply cause you can give birth. If you have diabetes, then paying for meds can be costly, and it's a tier up on payments cause you have diabetes and are considered "unfit". Some meds are only covered by your insurance. If your a few pounds overweight that's a mark up as well cause that's considered overweight. Even age can be a factor.

If your not under a big company that provides group health care, or work at home/freelance (I work freelance doing 3D and digital art design and motion graphics for video), you have to get a plan that covers yourself individually. And if you retire or get laid of, there is only so much COBRA (not sure if it's COBRA. I forget) can cover. So eventually, you have to buy an extension of that health care and it can cost over 1,000 a month just to have the same coverage when you had when you worked. I dunno if what I stated still applies - so don't count my words as 100% facts. I only had a health agent run it down for me during that time and it took me over 2-3 months to decide on a plan.

I have an individual plan, it's 'okay' payments - 103 bucks a month. It's not too bad but it's not too good either. It doesn't cover small visits or hospital stays and I have to pay out of pocket anything under $4,000 dollars but it adds up to my deductible. It's not bad if I need to get brain surgery or something major. Thing is, I hardly go to the doctor and I usually go when I think I need to. But when I do, it can be at the most worst times I can't afford it. I went to visit a doctor once and had to pay around $500 for 2 visits for the doctor to tell me I had an infection of a lymph node... Another 160 or so for medications. During this time when people are losing jobs, in some cases not only do they lose the job that pays for necessities, they also lose the medical coverage. So if something happens in-between while looking for a job, especially when family is concerned and you have no insurance to cover it, it can screw a family financially.

Death panels can go to hell! Who are they to say if someone should be treated or not. Already, the health care companies do that. I've known a few people who hang by the thread of what they're health insurance can okay and not okay and it's just drama over the phone.

I'm all for maximizing profits (in a honest, hard working type of way), without profits, there isn't money for medical research - American medical research is above and beyond and if it wasn't for those profits, makes you wonder. But when it concerns a persons life, and money is maximized just to milk a person, that's where I believe I think we need some type of reform, or at least look at what these health care companies are doing. I'm all for it, but at the same time, rushing this issue might cause bigger problems.

I'm leaning more towards a health care plan for America, but majority of me is grey about the whole issue.

Geez, this is the most I ever wrote here. I didn't want to bring any politics into this, I hate politics. So forgive me if some of this might offend others, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

[Brian]

What a lot of people don't realize is that most big companies are self insured. They pay a 3rd party (BCBS/Aetna, etc) to administer the plan, but the company pays for all of the medical costs incurred. I work for a pretty big company and I estimate that the health care cost is about 22% of the company's gross payroll. Now, it appears that if the company decides to drop it's hearlth care plan the penalty will only be 8% of payroll. What would you do? That would appear to be a big savings to the company and would force me and my family into the government option.

This bill is a step toward getting EVERYONE on gov-care and it stinks! I'm all for reform, but in the form of tax incentives, tort reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. I'm all for helping my fellow AMERICANS, but there are ways to do that without screwing the majority of the population out of what we currently have.

No good can come from this bill.

[keenan]

This bill, like MANY bills, started out as a good idea with good intentions, and like every bill, turned into a quagmire. The biggest problem I have with this bill, is the ABSOLUTE control the Govt. has over your "choices". This bill should be called " Health Control" instead of HealthCare. It is nothing short of Socialized Medicine. It has been PROVEN that socialized medicine DOESNT work. And, the most IMPORTANT point in all of this, what we MUST hold our Reps accountable for, is IF this is such a great plan, how come THEY are not obliged to sign up for it ? Like Ive always said, if you want to FIX health care, put all the Senators and Congressmen on Private Ins. that THEY have to pay for. Health Care would be remedied toot sweet ! This is like giving the foxes the key to the chicken coop.

[BirdDog]

I have witnessed people on group plans abuse insurance. I am a healthy individual and I maybe see the doctor about 2x a year. One is usually for a cold/flu and the other is for an x-ray. (I usually get injured at least once a year playing softball.) The last group plan I had was horrible. I got hit by a poorly thrown softball. So I went to the doctor for an x-ray to make sure that I didn't break my ankle. Turned out to be a very deep bone bruise. But my insurance coverage was going to refuse the payment of my visit because they thought it was the fault of another person. This really burns me. I was paying for this coverage every week out of my paycheck and I had a set schedule for co-pays on certain procedures. I barely ever used my health care plan, unlike some of the other fools I worked with. I never hated paying for insurance as much as I hated this certain plan that my employer provided. Before my parents closed our shop we had Kaiser as our health provider. Not once did I ever have a problem with them and I always felt that I as getting my moneys worth from them.

I have no insurance coverage now and I really don't know what I would do if something catastrophic were to happen to me. This is why I didn't play ball this year. I am very thrilled about being forced to carry coverage. The health insurance industry and health care costs are way out of control, I do truly believe this. But I don't think this bill is going to solve any of the problems. The only thing it will do is cost the American people more money and cause a heartache for small business.

[seaspine]

Here is my problem, after 15 years with the same job,I was fired when the economy wnt bad, reguardless of what my discharge papers say I simply made more mone then they were willing to pay.I live in Florida a right to work state,they can fire at will and there is no employee protection.So here I am in my late 40's with a wife in her mid 50's with the usual problema many of us experence at these ages. Both of us have hypertension,I have diabetes, she has a minor heart problem.We both have jobs but no one will hire us full time with benies, we both work over full time hours. We have tried but no insurance company will take us because of pre-existing conditions (We are not flipping burgers either both of us are RN's)I'm not a big fan of big government but,big businesses are refusing to let us get our health care needs taken care of.Something needs to be done,allot of the uninsured are like us,the poor and the old are taken care of.younger middle class people are being left to rot!I cant afford 1500 a month for cobra (which ends soon anyways) The current bill has problems but it is a step in the right direction.I do not want a hand out I am willing to pay for insurance but it has to be at a reasonable price.I would prefer to buy into medicare (socialized insurance,and the best plan out there) but that option is not avalabile because we are afraid of socialized medicine.I will admit I don't know what the answer is but,the proposed reform is the only answer I have.If I go into one more interview for a full time position only to hear "we will start you as part time" I'm going to puke!

LIke I said earlier I'm not a fan of big government,but they are the only ones thet can keep big business under control. The U.S. grew to a world power by paying and treating its workers well,sadly those days are gone and when all the jobs are gone to China and the rest of us are getting Chinese wages and benifits we will go the way of the other world powers before us!

[keenan]

@ Seaspine

Your story is EXACTLY the same as mine. I worked for a great co. for 13 years, and when the economy tanked, there went my job. I too, have diabetes, and have had 3 heart attacks. My wife has health issues. We have both worked ALL of our lives. My wife is on SSDI, and her "share of cost" for Medicaid is over 2/3rds of her check. Our next door neighbor, who we have known for 20 years, is "disabled". He pays NOTHING for his medical. Nada. He has not worked a DAY since we've known him. He DOES, however, play golf 3 times a week. His 20 year old son has NEVER worked a day in his life, and gets free medical, food stamps, and brags about it. We dont qualify for food stamps.I dont qualify for Medicaid. I make too much on unemployment. Go figure. Ive been to a bazillion job interviews, and had the same response as you. If I take a part time job, I'd make less than I do on unemployment. I dont know what happened to the American Dream. Im living the American Nightmare.

Edited December 24, 2009 by keenan

[mcquinn]

I am against the process they are using.I think it should be bipartian and one item at a time instead of too big to read bills voted on at one in the morning loaded with who knows what.I make my living in the healthcare industry and I have kids and grandkids who have to live with whatever we do now.

[nana]

I'm against it. I think we need some improvement, but this isn't an improvement. I do think they should do away with the "pre-existing condition" crap, but there's a lot in there that would make things a whole lot worse. I do feel for people who don't have any insurance, but not all of those who do have it can afford healthcare either. We have insurance, but hardly ever go to the doctor because of the out of pocket expenses we'd have to come up with. We've refused medications that were prescribed to us because we couldn't afford it. Luckily we very seldom get sick, but we're both on meds for high blood pressure. It's not that we don't worry about something happening and not having the money to pay for it, because we do. But we're scared to death of this so called health plan. And we're not alone. On the news this evening they had done a poll because of Ben Nelson making his "sweetheart" deal. The poll showed 86% of people are against it. The people of this state want him out for doing it. They've even created a website to start that process. It's not that I think nothing should be done, but not this. And not this fast. And I don't think the bill needs to be so big. And I don't think it should be so confusing. And I think they should read it. And I think they should get the opinions of "regular folk".

And not all of the elderly are taken care of. My aunt lives on $500. a month SS and cannot afford to pay for Medicare, so she doesn't have it at all. She has a small savings account so doesn't qualify for food stamps. She hasn't been to a doctor in years because she can't pay for it. She's barely able to pay for heat and electric and food.

[StevenP]

@ Seaspine

Your story is EXACTLY the same as mine. I worked for a great co. for 13 years, and when the economy tanked, there went my job. I too, have diabetes, and have had 3 heart attacks. My wife has health issues. We have both worked ALL of our lives. My wife is on SSDI, and her "share of cost" for Medicaid is over 2/3rds of her check. Our next door neighbor, who we have known for 20 years, is "disabled". He pays NOTHING for his medical. Nada. He has not worked a DAY since we've known him. He DOES, however, play golf 3 times a week. His 20 year old son has NEVER worked a day in his life, and gets free medical, food stamps, and brags about it. We dont qualify for food stamps.I dont qualify for Medicaid. I make too much on unemployment. Go figure. Ive been to a bazillion job interviews, and had the same response as you. If I take a part time job, I'd make less than I do on unemployment. I dont know what happened to the American Dream. Im living the American Nightmare.

Oh my god, Keenen! I feel your pain, dude! These are the exact type of deadbeats that makes me fear that people like them will take advantage of the bill if it's passed. I'm all for reform but at the same time what scares me is stories like this of people taking advantage of a service that is meant to benefit the people who really need it! It's simply not honest or even fair!

I'm still job hunting, and all jobs I've applied to say they're currently down sizing and need a more experienced person (10 years experience at least.) I was a college graduate 5 years ago! Freelance and side jobs help pay for little things, but now that I need a job, it's no where to be found. It's certainly a FML moment.

Love reading everyone's post, thanks for sharing! It helps put a face on the 'for and against' the health care bill, it certainly not a black and white issue. I'm glad no one is dogging anyone else about they're views about it. You guys are great.

Edited December 24, 2009 by StevenP

[DannyBoyfromWashington]

Justification of my "no" answer is simple, 1/2 of those recieving it would be "illegal" aliens? sorry, they already said that people here "illegaly" would get my tax dollars. Just that single statement makes it a no for me, not to mention the death plans etc,... a definite no go. come on people, "I" could write a better health reform bill than this, heck I think my 6 yr old son could too.

[Brian]

My aunt lives on $500. a month SS and cannot afford to pay for Medicare, so she doesn't have it at all.

This really ticks me off! You pay into something your whole life, and then then you're eligible for the benefit you can't afford it? :wtf2: Same with social security - you pay into that your whole damn life - so why do you have to pay taxes on the benefits when you receive them?

[Brian]

Love reading everyone's post, thanks for sharing! It helps put a face on the 'for and against' the health care bill, it certainly not a black and white issue. I'm glad no one is dogging anyone else about they're views about it. You guys are great.

Exactly the words I was looking for! Thanks!

[Brian]

Looks like they just got the 51 votes. The bill has passed.

[mcquinn]

Well it passed now it goes to conference.The people who do this cannot even comprehend living on $10.00 an hour ,but most of the people I know have to.Insurance is available to them but they would have to choose not to have shelter or food or transportaion to get it.

[elem187]

We are witnessing America going from a self-sufficient nation to a nation of irresponsible babies.

No longer is healthcare a choice in personal responsibility.. Nanny-state government now will be taking care of us from cradle to grave.

I know a lot of people who complain they cannot afford healthcare, yet every year they are buying new flat screen tv's, ps3's and all sorts of lil toys.... I shake my head, maybe you would have healthcare if you put your priorities in order... people will milk the system and this entitlement program will be like everything else the government gets its nose into. Inefficient, insolvent, expensive, bureaucratic, incompetent and corrupt...

.. and we can blame both parties for this fiasco.

Edited December 24, 2009 by elem187

[Travis798]

We are witnessing America going from a self-sufficient nation to a nation of irresponsible babies.

No longer is healthcare a choice in personal responsibility.. Nanny-state government now will be taking care of us from cradle to grave.

I know a lot of people who complain they cannot afford healthcare, yet every year they are buying new flat screen tv's, ps3's and all sorts of lil toys.... I shake my head, maybe you would have healthcare if you put your priorities in order... people will milk the system and this entitlement program will be like everything else the government gets its nose into. Inefficient, insolvent, expensive, bureaucratic, incompetent and corrupt...

.. and we can blame both parties for this fiasco.

While I agree with personal responsibility, there are a lot of things we can blame on both parties, but Republicans have been united in fighting this tooth and nail. If this actually becomes law, the Democrats are the ones at fault, and I hope that people will remember that when it's not what they think and election time comes around...

[keenan]

I agree Elem, but to take it a step further, I believe what we are witnessing is the "Europeanisation of America". All of these sweeping changes to our society, culture, and form of Government , are a transition to the way Europe is being run. Sort of a quasi-socialistic/democratic from of govt. It DOESNT work there, why do these people think it will work here ? Every time you turn around, some European country is changing leaders, or system, or something. We need to go BACK to what our founding fathers had in mind, and stop straying away from it.

[mcquinn]

The worst part is since we put them in charge of taking care of us ,they can decide what we ingest or inhale .

[Speakeasy]

Fantastic posts by everyone. Thank you Chris, for starting this poll.

I'm against this new bill because I feel it's wrong on several levels. Most of those reasons have been written about already, so I won't bother with repeating things.

"the Individual Mandate" (required coverage): Basically, it's illegal to not have health insurance. Thats how our government proposes to fix some of our health care issues. The government will decide whether you can afford insurance or not. If it says you can afford it, and you don't have it, you will be fined 2.5% of your annual income. The senate says that it will collect more than $200M a year from these fines.

"Employer Obligations": Employers with 200+ employees will be required to provide insurance and it's employees will NOT be able to opt out. Employers with 50-200 employees will have to pay $750/worker/year if they don't offer health insurance. And bosses with less than 50 employees won't have to provide insurance. I can hear the paystubs shrinking already....and you can bet that the plans provided will be the cheapest a company can find.

Life-time limits are suppose to be eliminated. Now this is a good thing! Same with pre-exsisting conditions. So now I can't be denied coverage solely because of my current health and it's cost to my provider. But doesn't anyone see the elephant in the room? What will this do to premiums? Hmmm.

"The public option" (Govnt-run healthcare): The senate bill doesn't have a public option. Period. The house bill does. The house says it wants to have a govt. program that will compete with private plans. I guess the idea is that this plan will be much cheaper and cause private insurers to drop thier premiums, thereby making healthcare cheaper in the long run. Thats ridiculous, and this debate is what devides the house and senate. It will be the biggest arguement on the hill

"Abortion": This is one of the many issues that will be under-minded with this new bill. How many parasitic laws and legislations will come into effect with the passing of this bill is anybody's guess. The bill itself, if written on single-sided notebook paper, would stack up almost 3 feet! If your pro-choice, the rights you believe in are being sabotaged by the pro-life aspects of this bill.

President Obama will sign this bill. He's not going to read this bill, in it's entirity, and possibly veto it because of some legislation that he might disagree with. He wants to be an 8 year president. And he's hoping that this kind of "reform" will get him there....

[keenan]

@ Speakeasy

You hit the nail on the head, I couldnt agree more. I honestly believe that Obama will sign this bill solely for the glory, not because he believes in it. I would lay a bet MOST signers of this bill havent read it, and just want thier names on it because it will be a historical moment. They have NO idea that it may very well be a piece of history we would all like to forget once we adopt it.

[elem187]

While I agree with personal responsibility, there are a lot of things we can blame on both parties, but Republicans have been united in fighting this tooth and nail. If this actually becomes law, the Democrats are the ones at fault, and I hope that people will remember that when it's not what they think and election time comes around...

The republicans fault because they had control over both houses of congress + white house and they still managed to spend wildly.

hence why they lost in 2006 and 2008.

If they would have stuck to their principals of limited government the dems would have never taken a super majority... so yes, it lies at the feet of the republicans as well.

[elem187]

I honestly believe that Obama will sign this bill solely for the glory, not because he believes in it.

Oh no I can guarantee he believes in it... Obama is communist to the core, he loves government. His answer for everything is increased government... never once have I heard him speak about the individual.. he is completely in love with the idea of collectivism.