FDA Deeming Regulation - What we know so far

[Compenstine]

This is a good video:

 

[FXRich]

Some of our supplies will not be affected, like cotton, I currently have about 120 pads, a supply that will last quite a while since 1 pad can last a couple of weeks, but most beauty shops sell them they will not be hard to get. Wire will also be available from beading suppliers, and other sources, maybe not Kanthal but SS wire is used in jewelry and other industries. 18650 batteries will still be used in flashlights and other devices, so they will not be hard to get. As far as tanks go I use Subtank minis, and Nanos, I've got a pretty good supply of them, and have 15 extra glass tubes on the way. Most people on VT have enough hardware to last quite awhile, but its the new vapers that will be affected the most. If anyone had a desire to do DIY, now would be a good time to start, and to stock up on Nic base, because the rest of the ingredients will still be available after the regs are fully implemented. Just my thoughts and opinion.

1 liter of 100mg base will make about 830 30ml bottles of 4mg juice, that's a lot of juice.

Edited May 15, 2016 by FXRich

[jasonculp]

1 hour ago, FXRich said:

...maybe not Kanthal but SS wire is used in jewelry and other industries. 18650 batteries will still be used in flashlights and other devices, so they will not be hard to get....

As I understand it Kanthal will not be affected it at all.  Kanthal as a wire is used in many industrial applications we adopted it for use in vaping.  Not to mention if it is not marketed for vaping it is not going to be subject to the FDA's regulation.

After watching the video that @Compenstine the companies that make the components will not be responsible for filing if their product is not marketed, or intended for vaping products.  So the glass maker can still make the glass, the battery maker can still make the battery....  The person who is going to get in trouble is the company that assembles all the individual pieces into a mod, and sells it.  The Flavor Apprentice, can still sell flavors, and you will still be able to buy PG and VG. Nicotine will be the problem.

 

[Compenstine]

It is a matter of interpretation though. If FTA for example knows that it will be bought with the "intent" of making E-Liquid, then they must register that flavor. It doesn't matter if it can be used for other things. These rules are quite vague and cause confusion in who is ultimately responsible. This is where these regs make no sense. If the maker of kanthal wire knows that the wire is to be used for coils, then they are responsible for the reg... Same with the glass tube. If I were to sell and empty bottle for the use of e-liquid, then I would be responsible to register it. But, if a bottle maker was making bottles for use with E-Liquids then they would be responsible. It is enough to make your head spin and confuse the crap out of everyone. They explain it better right at the end of the video.

[FXRich]

All the flavor maker has to do is declare on their webpage is that their flavors are not intended or recommended for use in ejuice, everyone will know different, but at least their legal responsibility will be met. If Compenstine wants to he may be able to write a book on how to mix ejuice, and will make a lot of $ off the sales. When one door closes another one may open. 

[Robinox]

2 hours ago, FXRich said:

Some of our supplies will not be affected, like cotton, I currently have about 120 pads, a supply that will last quite a while since 1 pad can last a couple of weeks, but most beauty shops sell them they will not be hard to get. Wire will also be available from beading suppliers, and other sources, maybe not Kanthal but SS wire is used in jewelry and other industries. 18650 batteries will still be used in flashlights and other devices, so they will not be hard to get. As far as tanks go I use Subtank minis, and Nanos, I've got a pretty good supply of them, and have 15 extra glass tubes on the way. Most people on VT have enough hardware to last quite awhile, but its the new vapers that will be affected the most. If anyone had a desire to do DIY, now would be a good time to start, and to stock up on Nic base, because the rest of the ingredients will still be available after the regs are fully implemented. Just my thoughts and opinion.

1 liter of 100mg base will make about 830 30ml bottles of 4mg juice, that's a lot of juice.

How long does nicotine have before it's expired? From what I've read over the years it is dangerous to make eliquid at home without the proper ventilation, so please for anyone planning on doing this follow the safety rules very carefully, and keep it away from small children.

[Compenstine]

18 minutes ago, Robinox said:

How long does nicotine have before it's expired? From what I've read over the years it is dangerous to make eliquid at home without the proper ventilation, so please for anyone planning on doing this follow the safety rules very carefully, and keep it away from small children.

Pure Nicotine (100%) yes is quite dangerous. However, when diluted, it is much less harmful. It can still do you harm if mishandled at 100mg (10%), but in most cases you can wash it off and be fine and also wear Neoprene gloves. At 50-25mg (5% 2.5%) it will not harm you unless you drink it but, you should wash it off if you get it on your skin. Yes all kids and animals should not have access to it. Like your E-Liquid, it should be kept in a locked box away from kids and animals. If mixed with VG or PG it can keep a long time in the freezer. It is best to eliminate all air from the bottle for long term storage (over 1 year). If stored properly it can last for several years.

[cany]

Comp how long will VG/PG/FLAVORS last left alone and not mixed. And how long will mixed juices  last?

[Robinox]

I just don't think it's a great idea for the majority of people to jump into DIY juice making for the reasons mentioned. Most people are not going to take the proper precautions because we humans are lazy at heart. Even rebuilding (which a lot of folks are recommending now that the Regulations are in) is very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.  Btw I am pretty sure that nicotine will be absorbed through the skin and gloves and goggles should be worn at all times when making your own juice.

Thanks for the reply.

[Compenstine]

PG and VG 1-2 years if stored in a cool dry place. indefinitely if stored in a freezer. Most flavorings are 1 year.

[cany]

3 minutes ago, Robinox said:

I just don't think it's a great idea for the majority of people to jump into DIY juice making for the reasons mentioned. Most people are not going to take the proper precautions because we humans are lazy at heart. Even rebuilding (which a lot of folks are recommending now that the Regulations are in) is very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.  Btw I am pretty sure that nicotine will be absorbed through the skin and gloves and goggles should be worn at all times when making your own juice.

Thanks for the reply.

I jumped in head first DIY Comp helped me through it all Im very happy making my own juice thanks too him

2 minutes ago, Compenstine said:

PG and VG 1-2 years if stored in a cool dry place. indefinitely if stored in a freezer. Most flavorings are 1 year.

What about mixed batches

[Compenstine]

I have been making E-Liquid since 2009. If you are working with Higher than 100mg then you should have a respirator. I always wear gloves but, they are not really needed for 25mg and below. You just need to wash it off. The absorption rate is very slow when diluted that far. If you were to get pure nic (100%) on your skin it much different and you could die.

@canyMixed 1-2 years depending on how you store it.

I will add that if you look at the amount of nicotine in a patch it is around 2.1%

"The first 6 weeks use the 21mg patch, then for the next 2 weeks it decreases to 14mg, and the final 2 weeks have a 7mg patch."

[cany]

18 minutes ago, Compenstine said:

I have been making E-Liquid since 2009. If you are working with Higher than 100mg then you should have a respirator. I always wear gloves but, they are not really needed for 25mg and below. You just need to wash it off. The absorption rate is very slow when diluted that far. If you were to get pure nic (100%) on your skin it much different and you could die.

@canyMixed 1-2 years depending on how you store it.

I will add that if you look at the amount of nicotine in a patch it is around 2.1%

"The first 6 weeks use the 21mg patch, then for the next 2 weeks it decreases to 14mg, and the final 2 weeks have a 7mg patch."

Ok how to store mixed batches   Maybe Ill just bug you in chat about this lol

[jasonculp]

49 minutes ago, Compenstine said:

It is a matter of interpretation though.....

It is.  The problem is that artificial flavorings can't be outlawed (everything would taste/smell pretty bland) and the FDA would have to prove that they are manufactured, and distributed with the intent to be used in a vaping product.  This would be impossible.  If you look at most of the sites they don't include vaping in their intended uses. Same with many other components.  Sandvik will not stop making Kanthal because the FDA thinks it should.  It isn't made for vaping, and they could care less that it is.  I have no way to know the total market share that vape products have in the resistance wire market, but I would have to assume that it is very small. 

 

[Compenstine]

In the freezer. LOL It is always the best place. If you have kids in the house then in a child proof lockable container in the freezer.

[jasonculp]

2 minutes ago, Compenstine said:

In the freezer. LOL It is always the best place. If you have kids in the house then in a child proof lockable container in the freezer.

LOL...  just a side note.  If you store nicotine in a bottle in the freezer, put it inside a plastic bag, then into a child proof container.  I had a liter in the top of the freezer.  When I got my second liter, I grabbed the first one, and it had leaked out about 50ml into the bag I had it wrapped in.  It was lying on it's side.  They are both wrapped separately, placed upright, inside a container now. It isn't child proof, but I am the only child who lives here (my wife is the adult).

[cany]

2 minutes ago, jasonculp said:

LOL...  just a side note.  If you store nicotine in a bottle in the freezer, put it inside a plastic bag, then into a child proof container.  I had a liter in the top of the freezer.  When I got my second liter, I grabbed the first one, and it had leaked out about 50ml into the bag I had it wrapped in.  It was lying on it's side.  They are both wrapped separately, placed upright, inside a container now. It isn't child proof, but I am the only child who lives here (my wife is the adult).

It leaked because it fell over?

[jasonculp]

Just now, cany said:

It leaked because it fell over?

Yes, well actually I laid it on it's side to save space.  We don't have a deep freeze, but we have 2 refrigerator/freezer combinations.  I had them so full at the time, the top shelf was the only place to put it, and it is very short.

[FXRich]

How dangerous nicotine is depends on who you listen to, some say it a drop will kill you others say it takes a lot to kill a adult. I had something happen last summer that shouldn't have but did, I was sitting outside having a beer, and vaping, went to refill my tank and dropped the half full 30ml bottle on the concrete, before I could get back with some paper towels and a dustpan, the dog had lapped most of it up, he's only 20 lbs. so I figured it might be over for him, not the case at all. He didn't even throw up or anything, didn't seem to affect him at all, kept a eye on him for awhile, but no ill affects. 

[Compenstine]

3 minutes ago, jasonculp said:

LOL...  just a side note.  If you store nicotine in a bottle in the freezer, put it inside a plastic bag, then into a child proof container.  I had a liter in the top of the freezer.  When I got my second liter, I grabbed the first one, and it had leaked out about 50ml into the bag I had it wrapped in.  It was lying on it's side.  They are both wrapped separately, placed upright, inside a container now. It isn't child proof, but I am the only child who lives here (my wife is the adult).

This is why I like Wizard Labs. They seal the Nic in a heavy duty heat sealed bag.

[cany]

So If I dont pull a Jason and stand it up it should be ok?

 

[Compenstine]

15 minutes ago, jasonculp said:

It is.  The problem is that artificial flavorings can't be outlawed (everything would taste/smell pretty bland) and the FDA would have to prove that they are manufactured, and distributed with the intent to be used in a vaping product.  This would be impossible.  If you look at most of the sites they don't include vaping in their intended uses. Same with many other components.  Sandvik will not stop making Kanthal because the FDA thinks it should.  It isn't made for vaping, and they could care less that it is.  I have no way to know the total market share that vape products have in the resistance wire market, but I would have to assume that it is very small. 

 

That is more than likely true, however I can see the FDA trying to though.

[jasonculp]

2 minutes ago, Compenstine said:

This is why I like Wizard Labs. They seal the Nic in a heavy duty heat sealed bag.

Why didn't I think of this?  I have a vacuum/heat sealer at home, and we have a big one at work....  I have just been using ziplocks.

1 minute ago, cany said:

So If I dont pull a Jason and stand it up it should be ok?

 

You wouldn't believe how often people say...."If I don't pull a Jason...."

[cany]

LMAO   You ever win a Darwin award

[FXRich]

I always tape the cap to the bottle with vinyl tape before putting it upright in the freezer.