FDA REGULATIONS! VERY IMPORTANT!

[BirdDog]

I just woke up and were sent these links. The FDA did an announcement today. I haven't read any of it, but thought it was important enough to post the links for everyone to read. It appears to be a lot of information.

http://blog.casaa.org/2016/05/fda-deeming-regulations-release-and.html

https://vaping.com/deeming-live-blog/

[BirdDog]

There is so much information to read through. Ugh!

What I can tell you is to support HR 2058!

http://cqrcengage.com/casaa/app/write-a-letter?0&engagementId=101154

[Earthling789]

Reading through this hurts my head...  The FDA assumes all nicotine to be a "tobacco product", and is proposing regulations that only large companies (like Big Tobacco) can afford to weather through....

I know this is no time for panic-mode, but if this goes through as stated... the black-market for vaping will be thriving!  The Fed thought prohibition was good until it brought the rise of bootleggers, organized crime, and black-markets.... just you wait...

 

[Squid]

Leagalese makes my head spin, but I basically understand that if this passes, we will be stuck with the cigalikes and those old screw-in atomizers on ego cells with the foam in the tip, correct?

[Compenstine]

 

There is yes the Black market but also DIY.

On CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/health/fda-e-cigarettes-regulation/index.html

[Earthling789]

3 minutes ago, Squid said:

Leagalese makes my head spin, but I basically understand that if this passes, we will be stuck with the cigalikes and those old screw-in atomizers on ego cells with the foam in the tip, correct?

Cigalikes? yes... cartomizers? probably not even going to allow those, unless they were on the market prior to 2/15/07.

There is also a provision for "child proof" and "tamper resistant" cartridges.  So, new vapers won't even be able to refill refill the cartridges that will be available on the market, thus killing the consumer e-liquid market in the US, effectively.

Yes @Compenstine there will still be DIY and build-your-own, but only until they figure out how to squash that avenue too.  Thankfully, I have enough VG/PG/Nicotine/Flavorings to last me a couple years... and I still will have time to stock up on coils, and building materials.

[Compenstine]

When you consider DIY components, the nicotine would be the only one that may be effected by this ruling. They can not regulate me buying Lorrans in Walmart for example. Or ordering flavorings over the internet. This would be the same for VG, PG, wire... These are all used for more than just E-Cigarettes. How would they regulate me buying wood..? or an aluminum project box from Mouser... Switches..?  There will be a lot of people going back to the day when we built our own mods. The electronic boards would be sold out of stock and hard to get though.

This is why I only buy things that have the rebuildable head/coil...

[cany]

Time to stock up?

[Compenstine]

It's always a good time to stock up when you have some spare cash. Just put it in the freezer and it will last indefinitely.

[cany]

Im gonna need a bigger freezer

[FXRich]

I have to figure out how long the 1 1/2 liters of 100mg nic base in the freezer will last me, I use 4mg for vaping.

[Earthling789]

49 minutes ago, FXRich said:

I have to figure out how long the 1 1/2 liters of 100mg nic base in the freezer will last me, I use 4mg for vaping.

4ml per 100ml of juice made... so 1500ml will make you 37.5 liters of juice.... 1500/4=375 100ml bottles or 37.5 liters (9.9gal) of juice

If you vape 30ml/week, that will keep you vaping for 1250 weeks, or 24 years, lol... 50ml/week is 750 weeks, or just shy of 14.5 years....

I just did the same math on my stockpile of Nicotine   I have enough to make 25L, and will be ordering another batch soon, so I can have enough to keep me and my SO in juice through 100L (25+ gal).... which should hopefully outlast these insane regulations, or until we give up the need for Nicotine?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Earthling789

[Bebop]

Holy cow.  I'm wading thru this legalese now.   

This has to be one of the biggest scams ever pulled off by the federal government. 

"(The) FDA is taking this action to reduce the death and disease from tobacco products. "

Yikes. This would be funny if it weren't, in fact, tragic.   I intend to read this entire issue then comment further...

 

[FXRich]

Thanks for doing the math for me earthling, I would like to know how many people have died from vaping, probably none, but it has saved a lot of people who used to smoke. just my opinion, which the politicians don't care about, all they see is the loss of cigarette taxes.

[BirdDog]

I was listening in on a streaming show earlier today, recommendation for long term storage of nicotine was to break it down into 24mg or lower, store in dark glass bottles and use the fridge or freezer. The temp has to be below 40 degrees. Just thought I would toss that out there. This was from a juice maker, 100mg will break down faster and he also suggested that the nicotine be in PG not VG. VG will go bad faster.

Hope this helps some. Not sure how true this is.

[Earthling789]

2 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

I was listening in on a streaming show earlier today, recommendation for long term storage of nicotine was to break it down into 24mg or lower, store in dark glass bottles and use the fridge or freezer. The temp has to be below 40 degrees. Just thought I would toss that out there. This was from a juice maker, 100mg will break down faster and he also suggested that the nicotine be in PG not VG. VG will go bad faster.

Hope this helps some. Not sure how true this is.

For the most part that is true... PG in the freezer lasts pretty much forever, and the lower the concentration of Nicotine in that PG means it will not go bad as fast as 100% pure Nicotine.  100mg/ml is 10% mixture, so it will degrade faster than 24mg/ml (2.4%) mixture... that is logical, but the real key is 10% is still diluted Nicotine, not pure, so it should stay viable in the freezer for many, many years as long as it is free of Oxygen, which is it's worst enemy.

The shelf-life of PG is 10yrs at room temp according to most sources.  VG is lower, about 5-7yrs at room temp.  Nicotine is even lower, about 2yrs at room temp.  Placing them in the freezer extends their life considerably... PG lasts forever, VG for decades, and Nicotine for 5-10yrs, but the catch for nicotine is it must be Oxygen-free (preferably in colored glass bottles), so placing it into smaller bottles, filled to the brim will ensure it degrades very slow, if at all in the freezer.

When they say e-liquids have a life of 2-yrs, they are going by the shelf-life of the fastest degrading component... Nicotine... but the lower the Nicotine %, the longer it will last.

[BirdDog]

I started reading up on DIY and making coils. I have the supplies to experiment with DIY but haven't made anything yet. The farthest I have gone was to add nic to those 0 nic samples that suppliers send out. My next step is to learn how to mix flavoring and then move on from there.

I bought one of those Kanger squonk boxes, nice little unit. I have all the tools for building, just need to get wire and cotton. I have been practicing with the squonk box, changing out the cotton. Good so far. Will see how this works. I promise to ask questions before blowing my self up. lol

@Earthling789 thanks for the extra information and confirmation! You are awesome!

Edited May 6, 2016 by BirdDog

[Tam]

One good thing about coils... even if you don't build your own, you can easily buy pre-wound coils. How will the government stop sales of coiled wire?

I've got all kinds of back ups that will last me for quite some time, the only things I would want to stock pile more is prebuilt coils and juice. If worse comes to worst I think I would be able to stop vaping without too much trouble now that my nic level is already so low. Still, it's stupid of the government to make this move. 

[iQuit]

Check out  Nude Armor-Extended Shelf Life and Nude Armor 2.0 Extended Shelf Life, for those who are looking into storing nic long-term.

I have a liter of each, aside from my regular nic stock. 

Our Nude Armor, argon-purged nicotine base is perfect for the consumer looking to store their nicotine base for extended periods of time, or for the formulator keen to ensure their nicotine base is in its purest state, free of oxidation products or degradation from storage. Inert argon gas displaces all oxygen-laden atmosphere inside the storage conditions of the bottle, a necessity as stated USP protocol for the storage of nicotine solution.

 

 

 

 

[FXRich]

I got a tank of argon, use it for welding aluminum. All I have to do now is devise a way to purge the bottles of nic base of oxygen and replace it with argon.

[iQuit]

10 hours ago, FXRich said:

I got a tank of argon, use it for welding aluminum. All I have to do now is devise a way to purge the bottles of nic base of oxygen and replace it with argon.

That's great FX.  Definitely a much better option if you can do it yourself. The v2 uses a patented packaging that does need argon.  I read somewhere (maybe reddit?) that someone was sourcing those bottles. I will look for it when get some time to see if he or they have found a source.  But i think you might need another equipment to vacuum seal it.

[FXRich]

Just now, iQuit said:

The v2 uses a patented packaging that does need argon.  I read somewhere (maybe reddit?) that someone was sourcing those bottles. I will look for it when get some time to see if he or they have found a source.  But i think you might need another equipment to vacuum seal it

I don't think I'll do it, The 1 liter bottle is full, and has very little air, and the other bottle is about half full, can't see purging it every time I take some out of it. Going to order another 1 liter bottle of 100mg just to have it. Heartlandvapes has 1 liter plastic bottles for $45 all I have to do is transfer it to a glass bottle after I get it, and then put it in the freezer. Maybe instead of storing it in a 1 liter bottle I can store it in 2 500ml bottles or maybe 4 250ml bottles, might keep longer that way.

[cany]

14 hours ago, BirdDog said:

I started reading up on DIY and making coils. I have the supplies to experiment with DIY but haven't made anything yet. The farthest I have gone was to add nic to those 0 nic samples that suppliers send out. My next step is to learn how to mix flavoring and then move on from there.

I bought one of those Kanger squonk boxes, nice little unit. I have all the tools for building, just need to get wire and cotton. I have been practicing with the squonk box, changing out the cotton. Good so far. Will see how this works. I promise to ask questions before blowing my self up. lol

@Earthling789 thanks for the extra information and confirmation! You are awesome!

Comp has been a great help with me and  DIY

[Earthling789]

2 hours ago, FXRich said:

I don't think I'll do it, The 1 liter bottle is full, and has very little air, and the other bottle is about half full, can't see purging it every time I take some out of it. Going to order another 1 liter bottle of 100mg just to have it. Heartlandvapes has 1 liter plastic bottles for $45 all I have to do is transfer it to a glass bottle after I get it, and then put it in the freezer. Maybe instead of storing it in a 1 liter bottle I can store it in 2 500ml bottles or maybe 4 250ml bottles, might keep longer that way.

Yeah, there's no need to purge the bottle and refill it with Argon each time... if you transfer the Nicotine base to glass bottles, as full as possible, and store them in the freezer, they'll last a long time.  The one you're "using" can be left with air in the bottle because you'll likely use it before it will go bad?  

The last liter I bought, I transferred it all into 120ml bottles with wedge-caps, so I'm not working with large volumes of base that could possibly go bad through Oxygen degradation...  The ones in the freezer are full to the base of the wedge-cap, so they should have little-to-zero "air" in them, and should last years like that.  Not to mention that "air" is 78% Nitrogen and only 20.9% Oxygen....

Considering Nicotine base in PG will last even longer in storage, I think my next order of Nicotine base will be in PG... although it will limit me to 25/75 PG/VG mixes as my max VG... but I mostly mix 50/50 and 40/60 for "me" anyway.  I won't be able to mix 20/80 like some of my family prefers, but they'll have to live with it or do without

[FXRich]

I have settled on a 30PG/70VG mix, so I could also use a PG base, not sure yet how to go, may end up ordering a 100mg 50/50 base.