Nicotine In Vaping Compared To Analogs

[jmhester]

The subject of what vaping is equivalant to in analog smoking is a subject we have been debating about forever it seems. In some ways it's an unfair comparison since vaping is simply a nicotine inhaling process vs the burning process of an analog. It's actually 2 totally different ways of ingesting nicotine. But for the sake of reference and curiosity (mine included), I really sat down and tried to simplify things for myself and my fellow vapors. Here's what I came up with:

I use to smoke Marlboro Lights which contain .8mg of nicotine. To simplify the calculation, let's just go with 1mg per cigarette. The nicotine advertised for analogs is the actual nicotine absorbed by the body vs our nicotine being a conncentration per ml in the bottle. So when you smoke a Marlboro you actually absorb 1mg of nicotine.

1 Marlboro = 1mg nicotine

1ml of 36mg juice yeilds 36mg of nicotine. But, you can only absorb so much. Research puts the vaping absorbtion amount as little as 10% and as high as 40%. So let's go overboard and say 30% is the best you can do (maybe a VP-PT with a fresh LB atty). By calculation: 1ml of 36mg juice X .30 = 10mg of nicotine.

1ml of 36mg juice = 10 Marlboro

So if you vape 2ml of 36mg juice, you are a pack a day "vaper"!

For reference, I calculate some other juice levels so you can see what you are vaping:

1ml of 11mg juice = about 3 Marlboro

1ml of 16mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 18mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 24mg juice = about 7 Marlboro

[GDub]

As always an interesting read here Jmhester, I'm curious as to where you got the 10%-40% absorption rate from, not in anyway disputing it, but I'm surprised you were able to find that information at all. Keep more of this stuff coming, this is good info for all of us.

[nana]

By your calculations, jm, I'm actually getting a lot less nic than I was. I go through 1 (to almost 2 on a stressful day) ml of juice per day - that equals 3 to 6 Marlboro's. And I smoked a pack to a pack and a half a day before. And not only that, I'm below the 11mg part of the time. I'm cutting it to between 4 and 6 part of the time and very seldom go with a full 11mg any more. And I'm doing great! I could even vape more and still be better than I was on analogs. Nicotine-wise, I mean.

Great info, jm. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

[dizzyizz]

That really is interesting, I have no clue how much (ml) juice I vape a day, I typically go back and forth between 5 or 6 flavors a day, so it's a little hard to keep track. however, if I was to venture a guess, I'd put my self somewhere in the 8-10 analogs a day catagory, which is pretty good! Thanks for doing the math!!

[jmhester]

As always an interesting read here Jmhester, I'm curious as to where you got the 10%-40% absorption rate from, not in anyway disputing it, but I'm surprised you were able to find that information at all. Keep more of this stuff coming, this is good info for all of us.

I put this together from a bunch of other sites. The one that was the most scientific was the Ruyan test which had one calculation coming out to about 14%. Another finding in the test showed that a single "vape" contained 10% of the nicotine from a single puff on a Marlboro. When you factor in the concentration of the juice, that came out to about 40% of the nicotine.

I have heard absorbtion rates of up to 80% but based on the only known medical research, I would guess it's much lower.

What was weird is that a long vape didn't seem to make much difference in the nicotine absorbed vs a short vape. Probably has something to do with the half life of the nicotine or something.

[NeRo9k]

I've also heard from a couple different sources that it's 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of nicotine ingested compared to analogs. This was a nice write up, thanks jmhester.

[jjinlasvegas]

The subject of what vaping is equivalant to in analog smoking is a subject we have been debating about forever it seems. In some ways it's an unfair comparison since vaping is simply a nicotine inhaling process vs the burning process of an analog. It's actually 2 totally different ways of ingesting nicotine. But for the sake of reference and curiosity (mine included), I really sat down and tried to simplify things for myself and my fellow vapors. Here's what I came up with:

I use to smoke Marlboro Lights which contain .8mg of nicotine. To simplify the calculation, let's just go with 1mg per cigarette. The nicotine advertised for analogs is the actual nicotine absorbed by the body vs our nicotine being a conncentration per ml in the bottle. So when you smoke a Marlboro you actually absorb 1mg of nicotine.

1 Marlboro = 1mg nicotine

1ml of 36mg juice yeilds 36mg of nicotine. But, you can only absorb so much. Research puts the vaping absorbtion amount as little as 10% and as high as 40%. So let's go overboard and say 30% is the best you can do (maybe a VP-PT with a fresh LB atty). By calculation: 1ml of 36mg juice X .30 = 10mg of nicotine.

1ml of 36mg juice = 10 Marlboro

So if you vape 2ml of 36mg juice, you are a pack a day "vaper"!

For reference, I calculate some other juice levels so you can see what you are vaping:

1ml of 11mg juice = about 3 Marlboro

1ml of 16mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 18mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 24mg juice = about 7 Marlboro

Thank you for posting this information!! Yesterday I was trying to figure out the ratio of nicotine in vapeing compared to cigarette smoking. This sure made that job a LOT easier, so thank you very much. NOW I know why I have been all bitchy for the past 9 days LOL.....I'm vapeing about 5 cigs worth of nicotine as compared to my 2 pack a day habit!!! Moral: I need to vape more!! lol

Edited December 15, 2009 by jjinlasvegas

[StevenP]

I'm vaping as much as smoked, so thats not too bad... I guess? How many average drops to make up 1ml?

[jjinlasvegas]

I'm vaping as much as smoked, so thats not too bad... I guess? How many average drops to make up 1ml?

I normally transfer juice into a small 3ml bottle before I drip, and because I'm anal I normally fill the little bottle every morning. I usually go through about 1/3 of a 3ml bottle per day, so 1ml a day worth of drips. I know that doesn't help you figure out your drops per day, but if you use the little bottles you can kinda keep track that way.

[SmokinHammer]

There's about 20 drops in a ml, at least according to the juice mixing calculator you can find in the DIY e-juice forum.

All I know is, when I got my VT 24 mg the other day, I was vaping it like crazy and started feeling a bit weird. The next day, I backed it off to around 14 or 15 mg by adding VG, and now it's perfect for me. When I was on analogs, I was pounding through 1 or 2 packs of Camel lights a day. I'm sure people who smoked less, vape stronger juice than I like. I don't know why this is such an issue, except for the noobs who are trying to answer questions that are really such a matter of personal taste that they cant be answered. Everybody's different.

[nana]

I've never counted the drops either. I like the 3 ml bottles - especially to take with me when I'm away from home - and go through one bottle in anywhere from 2 to 3 days. That means anywhere from 1 to 1 1/2 ml per day.

I just went in and counted the drops it takes to fill a 3ml bottle. I may have lost count a bit, but I came up with 100 drops. So, around 33 drops per ml. Anyone have a better answer?

[SmokinHammer]

I double checked that calculator, and it does have a note that 20 drops per ml. is an estimation, and that 20 drops of water from an dropper is approximately one ml. There's lots of variables, different fluids, (at different temperatures) different diameters on the dropper or bottle. I don't think a drop is a very accurate measurement. Kinda like a pinch.

[Brian]

Holly cow! I vaped over 3/4 of a 10ml bottle of 24mg Saturday and Sunday. That's 52 analogs! Ok - yea, that's about what I used to smoke in two days. I'm sure I won't use that much juice during the week, but that will probably be the norm for a weekend.

BTW - I was out of VT Tobacco so when my package arrived from VT on Saturday - that was all she wrote. I had other flavors, but I think I was having withdrawls from not having my fav.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Brian

[StevenP]

Thanks all for answering my question, I always wondered how many drops would equal 1ml.

[mcquinn]

I don't beleive you get as much nic per drag with vaping ,but the important thing is just vape till you get what you need.

[Travis798]

ml of 36mg juice = 10 Marlboro

So if you vape 2ml of 36mg juice, you are a pack a day "vaper"!

For reference, I calculate some other juice levels so you can see what you are vaping:

1ml of 11mg juice = about 3 Marlboro

1ml of 16mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 18mg juice = about 5 Marlboro

1ml of 24mg juice = about 7 Marlboro

Based on what I have seen and observed, someone that vapes 2ml of 36mg juice, probably actually smoked closer to 1.5 packs per day. It's very possible your numbers are really really close, because someone that smoked 1.5 packs per day could probably easily get by with 1 packs worth of nicotine.

Most people seem to vape approximately 2.5x the nic that they used to get from smoking. For instance.

You vape 2ml of 18mg liquid per day = 36mg of nic. 36/2.5= 14.4. So it's likely that someone who vapes 2ml of 18mg smoked somewhere in the area of 3/4 a pack per day.

A one pack per day smoker using 24mg liquid probably vapes about 2ml per day, figuring on 1mg per cigarette. If you figure it closer to the actual nic in a light cigarette @ .8 per so per cig, a 1 pack per day smoker of light cigs will probably vape roughly 1.5 (1.6 technically) ml of 24mg per day.

I could be wrong on all this, but I and many others seem to fall pretty close in line with the 2.5x figure. If nothing else, the figure is useful for helping someone just starting to vape find their level. If our bodies are indeed taking in the same nic that we did smoking, the 2.5x figure would tell us that the efficiency of vaping is roughly 40% that of smoking, which is actually pretty good IMHO.

*Edited to show my own experience*

I smoked 2.5 packs of lights per day. Figuring at .8 mg nic per cig, I got about 40mg of nic per day. 40x2.5 is 100. 100/36 (I vape 36mg) is 2.77. That falls really close in line with the 3ml of 36mg I smoke per day.

Falling back to my argument a while back about the need for 36mg nicotine vs 24 being the highest, if I were limited to 24mg, by these figures, I would need to vape over 4ml of liquid per day. I wouldn't be able to set the pv down at that rate!

Edited December 16, 2009 by Travis798

[Schizophretard]

Good job jmhester! What mg of juice being chained vaped would equal two packs a day? In a few days 24mg is starting to feel like 18mg. It may be time for 36mg.

[Travis798]

Good job jmhester! What mg of juice being chained vaped would equal two packs a day? In a few days 24mg is starting to feel like 18mg. It may be time for 36mg.

If you smoked full flavors, 2 packs per day would be about equal to my 2.5 packs of lights, so @ 24mg you would need to vape over 4ml of juice per day, or 2.5-3ml per day of 36mg.

If you smoked lights, a little over 3ml per day of 24 should do fine, or a little over 2ml of 36mg.

It is also worth nothing that nicotine is not the only addictive substance in the cigarettes we smoked. It's simply the MAIN one. There are other MAOI's in tobacco, and some people seem to develop a strong addiction to them as well, while others don't seem to miss them at all, with yet other people inbetween those 2 types. It is very possible for some people to get the nic they need and still have cravings.

*Edit* This is using my numbers, factored on a 40% efficiency vs the 30% jmhester has figured. Obviously my numbers will show you need to vape less than what jmhester's numbers will show. I only added my 40% figures here because from real world data, it seems to be very in line with what people actually vape compared to what they smoked. There will be many variables of course, different e-cigs are going to vary the efficiency, the amount of nic you get per pack of cigarettes will vary depending on how you smoked it, etc.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Travis798

[Schizophretard]

Interesting! I think I'm vaping more ml in 24 mg than what you gave and still don't feel satisfied. I have a very addictive personality. I'm thinking about increasing my dose from 24mg to 36mg, vaping nonstop, and keeping 911 on speed dial. 36mg is my limit! Even though junkies first say their limit is to smoke and they would never snort. After they snort they say their limit is to snort and they would never mainline. After they mainline they say their limit is to mainline and they would never quit. My limit used to be 24mg. That was a couple days ago. I need help!

[Travis798]

Interesting! I think I'm vaping more ml in 24 mg than what you gave and still don't feel satisfied. I have a very addictive personality. I'm thinking about increasing my dose from 24mg to 36mg, vaping nonstop, and keeping 911 on speed dial. 36mg is my limit! Even though junkies first say their limit is to smoke and they would never snort. After they snort they say their limit is to snort and they would never mainline. After they mainline they say their limit is to mainline and they would never quit. My limit used to be 24mg. That was a couple days ago. I need help!

Schizophretard, I'm also one of those people that vape a lot, and although I can tell I'm getting plenty of nic, I don't feel satisfied. As I said, the other alkaloids and MAOI's in cigarettes play a big part in this. It's getting much easier for me, and the nic alone will keep me from smoking (mostly), but we either have to decide to break the dependence on the OTHER chemicals, or continue them whether through still smoking, or other means such as snus. There are quite a few people that have great success with the combination of e-cigs for the hand to mouth fixation and nic, and Swedish Snus for the missing alkaloids.

Increasing your nic further does seem to somewhat help, but there will still be "something missing". You will get "nic sick" before being completely satisfied. I have found 1-2 cigarettes a day, still a major improvement over 2.5-3 packs per day, goes a long ways in helping me cope with the other cravings. At this point, some days (maybe stress?) I still smoke 2 cigs, and sometimes I will only have one cig in 3 days time. I do know that that "missing" feeling is getting better, and easier to cope with.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Travis798

[Schizophretard]

The snus isn't a bad Idea. I went from two packs a day to a half, so there is an improvement. I can't tell if I'm withdrawing from the other chemicals or if it is the ritual of smoking. I'm very OCD about things. My whole day is habit and ritual. Maybe when my mind fully accepts this new ritual I'll be cured of the analog. My dad is the same way. When DVDs came out his mind couldn't process the concept of not rewinding them.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Schizophretard

[Travis798]

The snus isn't a bad Idea. I went from two packs a day to a half, so there is an improvement. I can't tell if I'm withdrawing from the other chemicals or if it is the ritual of smoking. I'm very OCD about things. My whole day is habit and ritual. Maybe when my mind fully accepts this new ritual I'll be cured of the analog. My dad is the same way. When DVDs came out his mind couldn't process the concept of not rewinding them.

Schizophretard, I posted a long thread about it on ECF a while back and touched on it here, but I believe the ritual has a lot to do with it.

I don't know how long you smoked, but it becomes a part of you. It has actually been such a huge part of my life that I based a lot more of my decisions than I realized around it. I'm non sociable by nature outside of forums, but that was made worse due to the fact that you are unable to smoke in most social settings these days. Smoking is something that has always been there. Good times, bad times, sad times, happy times, fun times, boring times. Since I was 14 years old smoking has been more a part of my life, and more consistent than anything else outside of family. Since most of my family smokes as well, I guess it was even a part of that.

The point is, it gets to where I wouldn't even call it so much a part of you, so much as it identifies you. It is you. You are a smoker. You have been labeled with that term and lived up to it. I think for me, what, for the lack of a better word, scared me so much, was the fact that something that was so large a part of my life, that most parts of my life were actually based around it, can be so easily replaced. I enjoyed smoking so much that it was really the one thing I always swore would never change. Many people I know simply wouldn't believe me if I told them I even smoked less than a pack a week unless they saw it, because most people would comment about never seeing me without a cigarette.

I'm down to my last pack out of the cartons that I had, but still have about 6 (emergency) packs in my main truck, and some RYO stuff here in the house.

Anyway, I guess I've gotten off topic, but my main point is at least some of whats missing is that ritual, because that ritual is smoking, and we are, for better or worse, smokers. Even if I quit completely and go 20 years without a cigarette, I believe I will self identify as a smoker, because thats who I am, inside, if nothing else, and I love that, because most of the best people I know are smokers. Maybe I'm prejudice, but I view us as a higher class of citizen.

[Schizophretard]

If the conversation flows then in my opinion you're on topic. If someone said something like,"What about those Colts?" in the middle of the conversation then they would be off topic. This conversation is about how much nicotine we are getting and what else we need both physically and emotionally ties in nicely. Your explanation of self identifying yourself as a smoker fits me and I suspect everyone here and therefore is very relevant to this conversation.

[Jeffb]

I think you are on topic also. We sometimes forget that we aren't just addicted to nicotine but also the action of smoking. Yes it became a part of us. We identified with it and sometimes scheduled our life around it. Like you I loved smoking, but I have found a new love.

[ddavelarsen]

This is interesting, and answers a question I've had for a long time. I've always thought that people who use 24mg juice must not have been heavy smokers and that seems to be correct. JM's calculations are equal to Marlboro Lights - which would be nothing more than colored air from my perspective. I smoked 1.5 packs of non-filters per day and that still was not meeting my desired nicotine level - my lungs just could not handle any more smoke.

So when I started vaping at 36mg and I found myself vaping constantly - virtually breathing vapor - I became concerned that there would be no way I could continue vaping. I found a supplier that offers 48 mg juice though, and that is keeping me level. I vape about 2-3 ml of 48mg juice a day. That is enough to substitute for my smoking habit. Do I think I'll ever step down the nic level? Possibly. But I don't feel motivated to do so; the reason I vape is to quit smoking, not to quit nicotine.

One thing that's always been a concern for me is the fact that when regulation comes around - and make no mistake, it will - that the 'authorities' will likely assume that all smokers are like the majority of the folks here; that they have light cigarette nicotine intake. That will leave heavy smokers like me out in the cold because the available nic level after regulation will probably be much less than 24mg. Which would send me back to the smokes.

Good thread JM, thanks very much.