Chemicals linked with severe respiratory disease found in common e-cigarette flavors

[Jeffb]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/e-cigarette-flavoring-chemicals-linked-to-respiratory-disease/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Chan-Facebook-General

[Tam]

Interesting. I can't wait to read the full report when it comes out. Thanks, Jeff!

[Compenstine]

Not that I don't understand the danger in some chems, but "This study was supported by NIH/NIEHS Center Grant P30ES000002." and I would say that it my be slanted and bias. If this study had not been supported by agencies not in the pocket of big Pharma, I would look at it with less mistrust.

[FXRich]

Where did they get the ejuice that they tested, from China probably. Most US flavor makers got away from Diacetyl for the most part, and the other chemicals can be found in vegetables. Slanted one sided propaganda as I see it. I'm not saying that stuff is good for your lungs but it has to be better than the thousands of chemicals in cigarettes.

I wonder how much this study cost the taxpayers?

Edited December 9, 2015 by FXRich
wanted to add

[Bebop]

I'm pretty confident this is another bogus rehashing of the same idea.  I don't trust any reporting that doesn't give specifics.  And once I saw "formaldehyde" on the list......that's a red flag because we already know formaldehyde isn't formed unless there is excessive heat applied.  They could have easily targeted flavors that are already known to contain diacetyl. Who knows what they tested and under what conditions.  But you can be sure this study was bought and paid for. It stinks.  And of course, that's just my opinion, but, thanks to vaping, I can now smell a rat a mile away haha.

[Earthling789]

9 hours ago, Bebop said:

I'm pretty confident this is another bogus rehashing of the same idea

 

10 hours ago, FXRich said:

I wonder how much this study cost the taxpayers?

First red-flag... HARVARD...
Second red-flag... Acronyms associated with Big-pharma/Big-tobacco/Big-government

I trust no studies that are subsidized by tax-dollars or pharma/tobacco $$, especially those performed by liberal lap-dog universities...

Edited December 9, 2015 by Earthling789

[Christopher]

You know it really bothers me the whole "China bad, 'Merica good." I'm going to be devil's advocate here and say that not all US liquid makers are exempt here. If I recall correctly 5 Pawns had an issues with Diacetyl in their eliquid not to long ago. (And I recall some members on the forum avidly supporting their quality) This isn't a shot at 5 pawns, I'm sure they've corrected the issue by now, but the point is, we should take every study seriously and not simply dismiss it because it's "probably Chinese e liquid." 

While there are some top notch US liquid makers, you're naive if you really think China goes out of there way to produce low quality liquid. Sure some manufacturers might, but not all. (The same can be said equally for here in the US) I've visited a number of local retailers across the country some of which carry some seriously shady e liquids. I've seen Dekang facility first hand for example and it's not some shoddy warehouse pumping out liquid it's a literally a multi million dollar state of the art facility. (They make some serious quarterly profits and they have the capital to invest) 

Some US liquid makers are mixing in the rear of their retail store. While "of course we don't use Diacetyl" might be enough for some people, why do we extend so much trust and leeway to US manufactures? (or any manufacture for that matter) I remember talking to a vaper who was loyal to X brand of e liquid because it's "safer than that Chinese ****" and I asked him, have you ever requested a breakdown report? Do they have monograph reports up on their website? At the very least are they mixing in an ISO certified clean room? The guy didn't have an answer and neither do most vapers. They just jump on the US bandwagon and say I vape this because I know it's safer. 

Thing is, back when us old timers started their was legitimate concern over Chinese e liquids. It was the only source for e liquid at one point and because of trade secrets, very little information about how this stuff was produced. These days most manufactures worth their salt have no issue posting lab reports online along with at least some kind of certification. There is an e-liquid manufacturer on the east coast that I'm currently under an NDA with but they perform testing on 3rd party e liquids. While some of them passed free and clear for Diacetyl they failed for heavy metal traces. Others passed heavy metal tests but were shown positive for trade amounts of Diacetyl or Diethylene glycol. It was eye opening to see some of the reports. I'd asked why they don't display these reports online and because they themselves produce eliquid have been advised against it for legal reasons. But I can tell you, not all US liquids are as "clean" as you might believe them to be. (Same goes for other countries as well) 

Late last year I attended a conference with some of the top manufactures in China and do you know what it was about? Safety. It was ensuring their liquid was free of unnecessary additives as well as ensuring the purity of their liquids before shipping out across the world. They were also working with some well known testing facilities out of Europe prior to TPD rearing it's head. I'm not saying you should choose one country over another or that China has liquid superior to US manufactures, I'm simply saying that spouting off that US liquid is good, China is bad is a really lumping some good manufactures in with a couple of shady ones. It's really no different here in the states with some brands mixing this stuff in the basement of their own homes. 

Whatever liquid you're vaping, you should go ahead and email your vendor and ask them for reports. I say hold every brand accountable. Ask if they have reports for Nicotine level verification, Diacetyl, Diethylene glycol, Ethylene glycol, heavy metals, HPHC analysis and see how many of them produce results. I'm not voting for a nanny state here, I'm simply saying that some of this liquid costs 20-30 bucks a bottle and if you ask me, someone damn well better be investing some of those high costs in ensuring we have safe, clean e liquid. otherwise what's the point of switching to vaping other than less of a smell. I also don't think you should simply be confident in the brand you're using because it was "made in the USA." 

 

[Compenstine]

For the most part I agree that China vs US has little to nothing to do with studies like this. This not about us vs them in a geographic sense. This is a us vs them in a governmental agenda sense. It is not about multi million dollar clean rooms, or DIYers making juice in their home or B&M shops making it in a back room.  You can have the cleanest environment possible and still have an issue with some of these chems in the e-liquid. It is not introduced by the environment it is mixed in. it is introduced by the flavorings used 99.9% of the time. When it comes to Diethylene glycol it is introduced when manufactures try and cut corners to compete using low grade Propylene Glycol. The heavy metals come in from contaminated water (ie Tap Water), what it may be mixed in or even the coil that is used. This is all true be it Made in the USA or Made in China.

Having said that, This is about governments that are hell bent on destroying the vaping industry and have billions to back slanted studies to fit an agenda. This is about the bottom dollar and losses that occur from people switching to vape products that affect the bottom dollar of Governments, Big Tobacco, and Big Pharma. How many of these studies do testing or report results of the products put out by Big Tobacco ((Made in the USA)? Rarely do these type of tests name what products are tested and when they do, non are the Big Tobacco brands... hummmm...

Flavor manufacturers are stepping up to the plate and are giving test results of the flavorings they sell. This is giving the smaller e-liquid manufactures information about the chems that are in the flavorings sold. Responsible e-liquid manufactures need to know what they are putting into the end product. By having this information it makes it easier for the small companies to determine what is going into what they produce. These chems don't just magically appear in the product it has to come from somewhere. If the flavorings are clean of these chems, it will not be in the end product that is just fact.

IMO The real enemy here are the the agencies that continue to further the agenda of the ones that want to kill the vaping industry. An industry as a whole that potentially will save thousands if not millions of lives over the whole planet.

[Bebop]

Well said, Christopher.  I can't argue with that at all.  The truth is,. I have no idea what I'm vaping.  I place a lot of trust in liquid manufacturers and i might be more forgiving of them just because I'm glad to be not smoking.  But ultimately without full disclosure and actual unbiased scientific testing (if there is such a thing) we don't know ****. And no group or country has any claim to know better than anyone else.  There are still a lot of unknowns.  My instincts tell me this is better than smoking but no free ride.  My taste buds tell me diacetyl is delicious, lol.  My heart rate, blood pressure and skin tone tell me I'm OK. 

I trust there are more well meaning and competent people of any country, than there are bad guys.  After all, it's their families and friends addicted to smoking too.  It just bothers me - I find this kind of reporting irresponsible.  I don't really care if you want to publish how vaping contains formaldehyde, just make sure you publish right along side of that the conditions under which it's found.  

If someone is going to run around screaming "Fire! Fire!", there had better be a freakin fire, is all I'm saying. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Bebop

[Compenstine]

A vapers Rant about this study:

 

[Tam]

On 12/10/2015 at 1:09 AM, Bebop said:

If someone is going to run around screaming "Fire! Fire!", there had better be a freakin fire, is all I'm saying. 

For me, I'd also prefer to fire to be more than a match or lighter. Just sayin'. 

[FXRich]

We all going to die from something, I prefer to die from something I enjoy.

[Rixter]

How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes

 

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/09/how-the-media-totally-exaggerated-study-on-risk-of-popcorn-lung-from-e-cigarettes/#ixzz3uFY4Lea6

[FXRich]

The media totally exaggerates everything, that's why I have a hard time believing what I see on TV.

[Compenstine]

This country might soon be giving out e-cigarettes for free

England’s health service just came out with the biggest endorsement yet of e-cig safety.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/19/this-country-might-soon-be-giving-out-e-cigarettes-for-free-britain-nhs-public-health/

 

[Rixter]

A government that's doing something that's not completely backasswards? Surely, the end is near!!!

Edited December 14, 2015 by Rixter

[skoony]

OB or popcorn lung is considered a occupational disease. It is believed to be caused by high concentrations

of diacetyl found only in processing plants where it it used and made.

"Pneumoconiosis is one of a group of interstitial lung disease caused by breathing in certain kinds of dust particles that damage your lungs.

Because you are likely to encounter these dusts only in the workplace, pneumoconiosis is called an occupational lung disease.

Pneumoconiosis usually take years to develop. Because your lungs can't get rid of all these dust particles, they cause inflammation in your lungs that can eventually lead to scar tissue.

The disease appears in different forms, depending on the type of dust you inhale. One of the most common forms is black lung disease, also known as miner's lung. It’s caused by breathing in coal dust. Another is brown lung, which comes from working around dust from cotton or other fibers. Other types of dusts that can cause pneumoconiosis include silica and asbestos. Diacetyl, the compound used to give movie popcorn its buttery flavor, also can lead to the disease. This is known as popcorn lung. "

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/respiratory_disorders/pneumoconiosis_134,162/

[Foofightervapegirl]

I have read several different articles on diketones (i.e. diecytal) I prefer to use only diketone free vendors,when humanly possible.I can compile my list,if you like.