The Obama Deception

[Speakeasy]

This post is in response to Keenan's topic about change.

Ok, this goes against my best judgment, but I'm gonna risk it here. This forum is probably one of the best forums on the net. The quality of people here is very remarkable, and I have a great deal of respect for people like Keenan, The Smokingman, Christopher, Cnubel, Jeff, and many others. Now under most conditions I would think that this forum is no place to post opinions about political or religious issues. These topics usually bring nothing but trouble. But after reading the remarks left by so many of you, I feel like maybe the maturity level of the people here can handle it.

These are my own opinions and should be viewed as such. I don't mean to offend.

Everyone blamed Bush when he was in office. And now everyone is blaming Obama. When will our people start to learn that our presidents are not the ones in power. President Obama is a puppet on a string. Many elitists have been trying for over a hundred years to institute a new world order. A global government system run by private banking systems like the so called federal bank. These powers are truly above the law. They make our money, did you know that?

I'm going to ask all of you who consider yourselves patriots to visit this website. www.trueworldhistory.info

PLEASE!!!! Educate yourself! This is not a joke. If you feel like making a change in this country, please consider joining the libertarian political party. People all over the world are counting on Americans to help their pursuit of freedom. This is not a joke...

We MUST abolish the federal reserve. If we don't, we will continue to be a slave to corporate influence. There are things that you can do.

Do not accept any national ID card!! This is coming very soon. Don't be fooled. You will begin to see our government institute special ID cards in an attempt to fight terrorism. The war on terror is a hoax. It's a lie.

I know that all this stuff sounds kinda crazy, but all I ask is that you visit the link I provided and watch the videos for yourself. It's not crazy!!

This is not a rant! This is a plea for help....

Edited December 11, 2009 by Speakeasy

[keenan]

Hey, Speak, havent seen you in a while, glad yer back. As for politics fitting in this forum, I think thats the reason Chris created the Vapor Lounge, where anything "unrelated to e cigs" can be posted. He must have had the forsight to see that a big bag O wind like myself would eventually join the fold. Also, the social status and ongoing battles for the e cig community, almost DEMAND that we be political in nature, for it is the politicians and legislatures that we must convince of our "Right to Vape". Now, I havent checked out the link you posted yet, and I WILL, because I believe its only right and fair to listen to ALL sides before forming an opinion. But, that being said, I had to make one comment first. I have to disagree wholeheartedly, 100 %, with your statement that the "War on Terror" is a joke. It is NOT a joke, in any sense of the word. I watched in horror, as most of America and the world did, as 2 planes flew into the World Trade Center on the morning of Sept. 11th 2001. When the first plane hit, my initial reaction was, "OMG, what a terrible accident !, All those poor people". Then, I realized something. My sister works in those buildings. I imeediatly tried to call, and couldnt get through. Then the second plane hit, and I, along with the world, realized this was no accident. I cannot speak for the families of the 2500 other directly connected to those days events, but let me tell you, Terror is the only word that can describe what I and MY family were experiencing. Long story short, my sister survived, Thank You God, and we only found that out 7 hours later, 7 hours of pure hell and, TERROR. ( Ironically, she was ALSO there during the basement bombing of the WTC. That day, she was shopping there, not working there yet,)To this day, my sister will NOT go to lower Manhattan.Sept. 11th was ALSO my daughters 15th birthday. One she celebrates a little more somberly now.On a lighter note, I took PERSONAL offense for another reason. Being a native New Yorker, I remember WATCHING them build those towers from my bedroom window in the 70's. The construction lights from the crews working at night were my nightlight. Now, JMHO, but this was the absolute definition of a "TERROR" attack, added to the other ill fated planes of that day. An organized, planned, calculated, premeditated act of terror, plain and simple. Now, if you had told G. Bush, or me, or Mickey Mouse on Sept 10th, that 3 planes would cause so much pain the following day, we ALL wouldve shrugged our shoulders and said "yeah, right". We did NOT need to have congressional hearings and witch hunts to find blame here. 11 "terrorists" were to blame. Now, I presume your argument would be, "We didnt need to go to war in Iraq because of it". Well, while I disagree with that, you MAY be right, but on Sept 12th, myself, and the majority of the free world said to our Commander in Chief, " Yeah, lets go kick some butt". Right intelligence, wrong intellegence, doesnt matter to me. Someone had to get a message sent that we will NOT stand for this, and if that ***-clown Saddam Hussien had to be the one, works for me. Has it turned into a quagmire, did we get in a little over our heads , maybe so, but so be it. It is what it is, because it was what it was. And, most importantly, IMHO, I have NOT seen ONE airplane fly into ANY buildings in MY country since Sept. 11th 2001. THANK YOU GEORGE BUSH. If you wanna drag him through the mud and burn him in effigy from coast to coast for other misgivings, go ahead, but G-Dammit dont be hypocritical and IGNORE that fact ! ( not aimed at you Speak, just a rant there). My whole point here, is I am open minded to ANYONES political beliefs, I will defend to the death your right to hold those beliefs. But please, please, please, dont belittle our troops who have fallen on the field of battle, and given the ultimate sacrifice, in this "WAR ON TERROR". Rant over. Now Speak, buddy, I'll check out that link.

Edited December 11, 2009 by keenan

[FTJoe]

We MUST abolish the federal reserve. If we don't, we will continue to be a slave to corporate influence. There are things that you can do.

Do not accept any national ID card!! This is coming very soon. Don't be fooled. You will begin to see our government institute special ID cards in an attempt to fight terrorism. The war on terror is a hoax. It's a lie.

I believe the Fed is necessary, but shouldn't be allowed to make and execute policy. Needs oversight (not another congressional committee, but a GSE of some kind). I have to disagree as well that terrorism is a hoax. I will view the link, at work now so it will have to wait. Obviously based on my past posts I believe Washington is a joke, Wall Street runs the country. I will agree with you there.

I've always thought to some extent our country was based on the ideal expressed by Voltaire...

"I do not agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it".

Everyone should be allowed to express their opinion, else we have fascism/oligarchy/etc.

Remember my warning - Apathy then anarchy!!! I truly believe changing things now is next to impossible.

[Speakeasy]

Dear Keenan,

My Uncle died in the World Trade Center. He is believed to be one of the jumpers. I lived on 75th and Broadway for over 5 years as a kid. I'm a veteran of the first Gulf war and served in Kuwait. I watched with horror when the towers fell. I voted for George Bush both times. I voted for McCain in the last election. I have 3 friends who have died in Afganistan.

The war on terror has nothing to do with those events, Keenan. Your government is using those words to limit your freedom. Our government is slowly using anti-terrorism laws to monitor and track Americans! Not terrorists. That is my point.

Don't be fooled. Educate yourself. Just research the RFID chip, which is already being used on products that we buy. Just reasearch the electronic voting systems.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Speakeasy

[Speakeasy]

I believe the Fed is necessary, but shouldn't be allowed to make and execute policy.

As long as the federal bank has the ability to create money any form of policy is worthless. Even if you take all power of the federal bank away, but leave it the ability to create our nations money, it will always have the power to buy it back.

[Speakeasy]

My link Edited December 11, 2009 by Speakeasy

[keenan]

Dear Keenan,

My Uncle died in the World Trade Center. He is believed to be one of the jumpers. I lived on 75th and Broadway for over 5 years as a kid. I'm a veteran of the first Gulf war and served in Kuwait. I watched with horror when the towers fell. I voted for George Bush both times. I voted for McCain in the last election. I have 3 friends who have died in Afganistan.

The war on terror has nothing to do with those events, Keenan. Your government is using those words to limit your freedom. Our government is slowly using anti-terrorism laws to monitor and track Americans! Not terrorists. That is my point.

Don't be fooled. Educate yourself. Just research the RFID chip, which is already being used on products that we buy. Just reasearch the electronic voting systems.

My heartfelt sympathies Speak. I too, am a Vet, USN, was on a destroyer in the Gulf LONG before it was in the paper every day (1981). I hope I didnt mis speak here, I was in NO way trying to minimize ANY one elses experiences of that tragic day. If thats how it came across, I ABSOLUTELY apologize. What I AM saying is, from my OWN personal standpoint, this BEGAN as a retaliation for an act of terror. What it has turned INTO is a whole other "New Topic" post. I dont disagree that it is more than what it was in the beginning. But, I believe, wholeheartedly, my opinion, that this STARTED as a war on terror, a knee-jerk response to terror, and changing horses mid-stream is what has MADE it what it is today, a cluster-f**k. Thats the ONLY thing that raises my hackles, people FORGET where this began. It is what it is today, but its NOT what it was back then. When Bush stood on the rubble with a megaphone and said "The people who DID this are gonna hear our voices", THAT, IMO, was a "Declaration of WAR on TERROR" My point is, that was the conception point, that terrorist act on Sept 11th. THAT was why we went to Iraq. THAT was why we, at first supported it, and we did as a country. Bush's approval rating at the time was historical. THAT was why we went to Afghanistan. An act of terror. We can argue till we're blue in the face about what it is NOW, but Im referring to what it WAS. And, IMHO, I think it is wrong on many levels to ignore that. I think it is demeaning to our troops to ignore that. Again, Speak, I hope Im not saying this wrong, please dont take offense, I ENJOY this type of debate and do NOT want to agitate you or anyone. Sometimes when I speak my mind I tend to do that, and if so, my apologies. But I dont think anything can change my mind on that. I will be HAPPY to see or listen to ANY proof that Sept. 11 WASNT an act of terror.

[Speakeasy]

Please understand that my comments have NOTHING to do with 9/11! Keenan, your response, I fear, will cause readers to think that I'm against the war on terror, and that pisses me off. Your presumption of my thinking that our being in Iraq is wrong is completely false! Maybe my idea of expessing my opinion was wrong after all.

I served in our military for over 9 years. I fought the Iraqi army. I treated wounded soldiers and cared for refugees. I feel we should have defeated them the first time!! Now my son is over there cleaning up my mess!! Shame on you for thinking that, sir.

Please just understand that our nation is at great risk. Take the time to research my point.

[Gazoo]

wow i had a whole speech but by the time i finished typing the mood here changed too much so this is my post instead we are a young stupid cocky country whose people need to grow up and stop puttiing tokens into power just to make certain people happy

nuff said

Edited December 11, 2009 by Gazoo

[keenan]

Please understand that my comments have NOTHING to do with 9/11! Keenan, your response, I fear, will cause readers to think that I'm against the war on terror, and that pisses me off. Your presumption of my thinking that our being in Iraq is wrong is completely false! Maybe my idea of expessing my opinion was wrong after all.

I served in our military for over 9 years. I fought the Iraqi army. I treated wounded soldiers and cared for refugees. I feel we should have defeated them the first time!! Now my son is over there cleaning up my mess!! Shame on you for thinking that, sir.

Please just understand that our nation is at great risk. Take the time to research my point.

Wow, Speak. Now , after TRYING to be as polite as possible, Im offended. I NEVER SAID you were against the war, I NEVER IMPLIED you were against the war on terror. I DIDNT presume you thought our being in Iraq was wrong. NEVER DID !!! PLEASE point out WHERE I DID, and I WILL APOLOGIZE !!!!!! I DID NOT demean your service to our country ! I DID NOT imply your service, AND MINE, was wrong ! I WAS ONLY stating, IMHO, IMHO, IMHO that people forgot those events. Shame on ME !!?? Those are pretty strong words !!!NO SIR, NO SHAME ON ME !!!! SHAME on YOU for taking a polite political discussion to a higher agitated level !

Edited December 11, 2009 by keenan

[keenan]

I also WELCOMED this topic. I also said I ENJOY these debates, IN A FRIENDLY MANNER. I quote YOU "the war on terror is a joke". THATS WHAT I WAS RESPONDING TO, IMHO, and NOTHING else !!

Edited December 11, 2009 by keenan

[keenan]

I said

"Again, Speak, I hope Im not saying this wrong, please dont take offense, I ENJOY this type of debate and do NOT want to agitate you or anyone. Sometimes when I speak my mind I tend to do that, and if so, my apologies. "

HOW you turned THAT into a personal attack on YOU by ME, is beyond my intellect. I tried , obviously I FAILED, to get across that I was JUST giving my opinion, that I did NOT mean to offend anyone, that I WELCOMED these type of debates. I SERIOUSLY went OUT OF MY WAY to not offend you. But, for you to put SHAME on me !!! How DARE you. I havent been THIS mad in I dont know HOW long. I'll shut my friggin mouth now.

How many apologies do you want, I'll be happy to send them

Edited December 11, 2009 by keenan

[FTJoe]

As long as the federal bank has the ability to create money any form of policy is worthless. Even if you take all power of the federal bank away, but leave it the ability to create our nations money, it will always have the power to buy it back.

And the solution to this is what? Money backed by gold?

[FTJoe]

Maybe my idea of expessing my opinion was wrong after all.

...

Please just understand that our nation is at great risk. Take the time to research my point.

I think perhaps you shouldn't have posted if you will interpret argument as an attack and non-agreement as being uneducated. I believe I have been to that site before and I do not agree with their basic premise. That is my educated opinion...it just means I disagree with the basic premise.

[Speakeasy]

Now, I presume your argument would be, "We didnt need to go to war in Iraq because of it". Well, while I disagree with that, you MAY be right, but on Sept 12th, myself, and the majority of the free world said to our Commander in Chief, " Yeah, lets go kick some butt".

Your presumption was wrong, Keenan.

I started this topic as a respectful response to your topic, sir. I mentioned that I have a great deal of respect for you and many others here. My thought was to pass on information that directly pertains to many of the posts I found on that thread. You have no idea how right you all are in feeling betrayed by your government. TheSmokingman wrote that he keeps his children from public schools because of those concerns. I happen to agree with all of the things that were posted there.

But, alas, this topic has turned into something else, hasn't it? I'm sorry I offended you, Keenan. I just didn't want it to be a thread about the towers.

BTW, I wrote, "The war on terror is a hoax." I also wrote that it was a lie. I'm referring to all the new domestic laws that have come to be. Recently, a five year old boy was detained in a Seattle airport because his name appeared on a no-fly list. His mother couldn't even hold him. Thats wrong. Soon we will have to show papers in order to travel inside our own country, yet the boarders are still open.

[keenan]

Your presumption was wrong, Keenan.

I started this topic as a respectful response to your topic, sir. I mentioned that I have a great deal of respect for you and many others here. My thought was to pass on information that directly pertains to many of the posts I found on that thread. You have no idea how right you all are in feeling betrayed by your government. TheSmokingman wrote that he keeps his children from public schools because of those concerns. I happen to agree with all of the things that were posted there.

But, alas, this topic has turned into something else, hasn't it? I'm sorry I offended you, Keenan. I just didn't want it to be a thread about the towers.

BTW, I wrote, "The war on terror is a hoax." I also wrote that it was a lie. I'm referring to all the new domestic laws that have come to be. Recently, a five year old boy was detained in a Seattle airport because his name appeared on a no-fly list. His mother couldn't even hold him. Thats wrong. Soon we will have to show papers in order to travel inside our own country, yet the boarders are still open.

My presumption may VERY well have been wrong, and in that sentence I went ON to say "YOU may be right". I went on to say after that, that this war has turned INTO a clusterf**k. I AGREED with you on those points. My ONLY, my ONLY reference and start of my rant was your comment "The war on terror is a hoax", or lie, or whatever you want to call it. So, I just wanted to give "IN MY Humble Opinion", a refresher that I thought, IMO, people have forgotten. VaporTalk is a forum. A Forum of WORDS. Which is WHY I try VERY hard to choose my words VERY carefully, as not to OFFEND anyone. I sometimes, IMHO, apologize too MUCH. But, this BEING a forum of words, I expect only the same and nothing more from others. NOT demand, expect. And where I come from, "Shame On You" is not taken lightly. I ALSO, did not want this to be a thread about the towers, I wanted it to be YOUR thread,but, IMHO, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. IMHO, if you attack a problem from the middle, and dont go to the beginning, you're not gonna fix the problem. THAT was the only reason for my post, a RESPONSE, not attack, to your "hoax" quote. Please, please Speakeasy, feel free to continue this thread, lets agree to disagree, and I too, once again, apologize for any offenses incurred.

[FTJoe]

Soon we will have to show papers in order to travel inside our own country, yet the boarders are still open.

That would be a shame, but I just don't see it happening. But I've been wrong before, many many times. ;-)

[FTJoe]

wow i had a whole speech but by the time i finished typing the mood here changed too much so this is my post instead we are a young stupid cocky country whose people need to grow up and stop puttiing tokens into power just to make certain people happy

nuff said

Ahhh - the big three, sex religion and politics. How to get people warring!!!! ;-)

[Christopher]

Well that was an interesting read.

I'm obviously not going to state what I agree/disagree on here, being the admin I need to keep a neutral stance but I will ask that the language is toned down. Debate is fine but let's try to keep our emotions in check. Load up that atomizers have a vape and relax.

[BirdDog]

My dad puts his American Flag out everyday and brings it in at night. How many of you or your neighbors do this? Just so you understand, I am not shaking a finger at anyone. I don't even hang out my own flag, it is folded up in the bottom of a cedar chest. I am just as guilty.

I started watching the first video in the link that Speakeasy posted. The first few minutes reminded me of why our founding fathers created the United States. I didn't get to finish it, busy day today. But I am planning on finishing the rest of the video later this evening.

[FTJoe]

My dad puts his American Flag out everyday and brings it in at night. How many of you or your neighbors do this? Just so you understand, I am not shaking a finger at anyone. I don't even hang out my own flag, it is folded up in the bottom of a cedar chest. I am just as guilty.

I started watching the first video in the link that Speakeasy posted. The first few minutes reminded me of why our founding fathers created the United States. I didn't get to finish it, busy day today. But I am planning on finishing the rest of the video later this evening.

I don't feel guilty about not putting a flag out, just not my barometer for patriotism. Props to your Dad though.

[Speakeasy]

And the solution to this is what? Money backed by gold?

Well, I think it would be much better than what it's based on now, which is nothing. Our politicians need more and more money to fund all of the government programs that they institute. And our federal income tax doesn't even come close to paying for it all. So what does our government do? It borrows money from the federal reserve. But often the FED doesn't have the money to lend the government, so it MAKES more. Just prints up more money from thin air. Then it charges our government interest! On money it made for free! Whats up with that? Why doesn't our government just get rid of the FED and make it's own money? Inflation is not what we need in this kind of economy. At least if the government printed it we wouldn't have to pay interest on it.

Our constitution says that our money will be based on gold and silver. It says that for a very good reason.

[FTJoe]

Our constitution says that our money will be based on gold and silver. It says that for a very good reason.

Assuming you are speaking about article 1, section 10. I was trying to look this up but I think the supreme court made an interpretation of it that allows printing to take place and it appears to set limits on what the states can do. I've never been good at constitutional law, I think the intent may have been there though.

As far as printing goes, not sure it's thin air, I think they have to have treasury auctions to cover what they print...now whether the auctions are on the up and up is a whole 'nother story.

[Speakeasy]

Assuming you are speaking about article 1, section 10. I was trying to look this up but I think the supreme court made an interpretation of it that allows printing to take place and it appears to set limits on what the states can do. I've never been good at constitutional law, I think the intent may have been there though.

As far as printing goes, not sure it's thin air, I think they have to have treasury auctions to cover what they print...now whether the auctions are on the up and up is a whole 'nother story.

The website I spoke of in my original post can give you a great deal of insight into what we're talking about. You can also check out Wikipedia. I would suggest maybe looking at the Federal reserve act of 1913, and especially critism of the federal reserve act. Those two Wikipedia topics should explain my case exactly.

I couldn't help but notice that you've made several comments regarding banks in the other topic thread about change. You critisize GS and AIG. Honestly, this is music to my ears. I couldn't agree more with your comments posted there. I think that if you looked closely at the federal reserve system (My link) and read a little about Austrian business cycle theory, you would quickly see that eliminating the federal reserve system is in our nations best intrests. Many critics of the FED blame them for the current situation we're in right now.

[keenan]

So that all of you know, Speakeasy and I shook hands and made up, and he was gracious enough to forgive me for my Irish tounge ! Just ANOTHER great thing about VT, we are all a classy group of Vapers. So Im a gonna get back into this one !

Kinda sorta. Probably gonna tick you off again Speak, cause as it turns out, I dont know diddly squat about the Fed, I am COMPLETELY out of touch and not qualified to discuss economics. Politics, history, presidential history, things of that nature, Im your go to guy. Economics, I know our economy is in the toilet, thats about it. I know the mint makes money, I know my wife spends money, I know I need to make more money. I do know this much, what AIG did was criminal, plain and simple. The fact that I dont know squat about economics, but I DO know they broke the law, puzzles me as to why the big wigs there arent in jail. After they BLEW our money like a kid in a candy store, we gave them MORE. AND THEY DID IT AGAIN. And theyre STILL not in jail. Which brings us to my area of expertise, wanting to drop a common sense bomb over the capitol, run all of those crooks out of Washington, and start over. I remember watching the AIG scandal on the news on a daily basis, and I was just bewildered that not only did it continue on and on, but that it somehow got pushed under the rug, and quietly went away. Thats as much as I know about economics. And, unfortunately, I think thats MORE than what the people in Washingto know. Another thing, If I had known that NOT paying my taxes would get me appointed to head the I.R.S., Ida stopped payin mine a LONG time ago.

(Go easy on me here Speak, I know not of what I speak )