DIY is saving me a fortune!

[Earthling789]

I just got though mixing up a huge batch of juice (780ml)... 240ml of each of my two ADV's, and 60ml each of chocolate covered raspberry, chocolate tangerine, tutti-fruity, bubblegum, and PB ice-cream!  After mixing all of these, I suddenly realized how much all of this would have cost me from my local B&M (even if they offered these flavor combos)...  $300, minimum!

How did I afford this before? Granted, this is about 4 month's worth of juice, which breaks down to $75/month... but still... 

[Tam]

That's a sizable savings! And the upside is you can customize to your heart's delight. Go you! 

[Earthling789]

Exactly, Tam!  I could never get exactly the flavors (intensity), the flavor combos, or the PG/VG ratios I wanted from any B&M or vendor, which is why I finally moved to DIY.  I'm glad I did, really... the start-up cost isn't horrible, but still a hit to the wallet while you're getting set-up and learning, but worth it!

[FXRich]

And you won't run out of juice because you forgot to order some, unless you forget to order supplies.

 

Wait until all your friends want some. Have you done per ml cost?

Edited July 27, 2015 by FXRich

[jasonculp]

Exactly, Tam!  I could never get exactly the flavors (intensity), the flavor combos, or the PG/VG ratios I wanted from any B&M or vendor, which is why I finally moved to DIY.  I'm glad I did, really... the start-up cost isn't horrible, but still a hit to the wallet while you're getting set-up and learning, but worth it!

I really envy y'all that can DIY juice.  I still have not regained my sense of taste, you would think after a year it would come back, but it really hasn't.  I can tell if something tastes good to me, but I can't pick individual flavors.  I am pretty good with food, but not vape flavors.  I am pretty happy buying my juice from Comp, but with all of the new laws, it would be nice to be able to make my own.  If what I am reading is correct you can't even buy juice over the internet (as an individual) in Arkansas.  (of course I don't know how they would ever enforce it)

[FXRich]

I have been vaping for about 2 years now and my sense of taste hasn't came back totally yet. That's why I mix my juice with 20% flavor.

[jasonculp]

I have been vaping for about 2 years now and my sense of taste hasn't came back totally yet. That's why I mix my juice with 20% flavor.

What is strange with me, is I get overpowered by the flavors of many juices.  I just can't pick out individual ones.  I am the same way with smells.

[Earthling789]

Even when smoking, I had a pretty good sense of taste, although slightly dulled, compared to today.  My sense of smell has always been pretty good, which is probably why my taste-buds seemed to bounce back within a few months after I quit analogs?

[jasonculp]

Even when smoking, I had a pretty good sense of taste, although slightly dulled, compared to today.  My sense of smell has always been pretty good, which is probably why my taste-buds seemed to bounce back within a few months after I quit analogs?

I have pretty bad allergies.  I have never had a great sense of smell.  I do very good with food, but I like it spicy.  I have tried to describe certain flavors of juice to other people and when they taste it they tell me I am wrong! 

I want to try mixing my own, but, I know it would take quite a bit of capital.  Another problem is I really like layered flavors, ones that combine many different flavors to make one flavor.  I am also picky...lol

[Compenstine]

I started DIY long ago and never looked back. Glad to see your having good luck with your DIY Earthling!

[FXRich]

The nic base and the flavorings are the most expensive part, PG and VG usually run $12- $15 per liter. Some flavor companies will mix the flavors if you ask them to, I have a favorite that consists of 1/3 watermelon 1/3 cantaloupe, and 1/3 honeydew. instead of ordering 3 4oz bottles I order one and they mix equal amounts of all 3 flavors.

[Earthling789]

Picky is what did it for me... I could never get "exactly" the right flavor from most of the commercial juices.  Comp's stuff is really good, but most of the B&M or big-name vendors just didn't have what I wanted.  Now, I can get it the way I want it

It's not a huge investment... if you know the flavors you want... Buy your Nicotine, VG and PG in bulk, and then experiment with flavorings from different suppliers.  I've found there are a couple dozen different chocolates, and they all taste a little different, and mix differently with other flavors.  The chocolate I use for my raspberry is not the same chocolate I use for my tangerine, and neither of those are the one I use for my peanutbutter-cups   The same goes for fruits... one vendor will be weak, one will be strong, one will be sweet, etc. etc.   I recommend you take some advice Comp gave me, and buy your flavorings in small batches (8ml bottles), so you don't have a lot invested in bad flavors.  Then, when you find the flavor (or combos) you like, you can buy those flavors in larger bottles.  I've been buying mine lately in 120ml sizes, so I can benefit from better prices, and I won't have to worry about any formula changes that may make my favorite flavor combos taste differently.

After you buy the flavorings, PG, VG, and Nicotine... a simple set-up with a few syringes (blunt tip needles), and some good glassware (doesn't have to be beakers and flasks, can be Pyrex mixing bowls and measuring cups, but glass is much easier to work with and clean), and you're all set to mix.  Heck, I've mixed many flavors right in the bottle they'll be going into, rather than dirty up a beaker... you just have to shake it really really well (and often) to get it mixed

[FXRich]

I mix mine in a 30ml syringe then squirt it into a 30ml bottle, works for me. Sometimes I forget to lube the syringe after I wash it, If you don't lube it with a few drops of VG it can get sticky,

[Compenstine]

That can happen with some flavorings too. Banana is the worst for messing up syringe.

 

[FXRich]

Also you have to put scotch tape over the numbers so they last longer. Or they will wear off pretty quick.

[jasonculp]

I may stick my toe in the water some day.  I do want the option should I need it.

I am a pretty good cook, I have won a few cook-offs.  I have Brisket, Spare Ribs, Chicken, and Chili down.  I am not great with steak.  I can do fine, but not exceptional.  I have a certain hole-in-the-wall place that makes a steak like no other.  If I go and buy one like they cook me, it would be close to $30 locally (Dry Aged/Prime).  I could buy one and cook it, but it is hit or miss.  I can spend an extra $20 and go to a real friendly place and get it cooked perfectly every time, with some grilled vegetables, that I can not replicate at home.  If it isn't up to par, I can send it back.

I feel the same way about my juice.  When I went to Comp to replicate my old all day vape, he tried it, and and recommended his fruit mash.  It wasn't the same, it was better.  The supply of Mash dried up (well it was not consistent due to the nature of what it is), and he made Frutti Tutti to replicate it.  In my opinion, it was better than the original.  If he sends me some, and it doesn't taste the same, or there is a problem, he will fix it. (it has never happened)  I have not felt like it was worth the possible savings in money.  It also might help out a great member of the board at the same time.

 

All of this said, I still would like to buy at least enough supplies, and find a palatable blend just in case it becomes illegal, or highly taxed.

[Compenstine]

All of this said, I still would like to buy at least enough supplies, and find a palatable blend just in case it becomes illegal, or highly taxed.

This is why I'm such a big advocate for DIY. If things do go south, I will make sure people can still make the flavors they like even if they are nic free. I do have backup plans for the day that may put me and others in that position.

[jasonculp]

From what I am reading in some other forums, they are classifying even 0mg juice as a "tobacco product" in Arkansas.  You have to have a permit to send to the state and only to a retailer who is licensed.  I think the wording will be revised after a lawsuit or two, but I would definitely check before sending any to Arkansas.

[Compenstine]

By federal definition it is not a tobacco product unless it contains a substance derived from tobacco. I would have to see the "evidence" of legislation to prove the rumors of that.

[jasonculp]

The problem I see is Arkansas is making up their own  definitions.  It is not Federal, it is State.

SECTION 7. Arkansas Code § 26-57-228. Purchases from unregistered, unlicensed dealers unlawful.
7 (a) It is unlawful for a retailer of tobacco products, vapor products,
8 alternative nicotine products, or e-liquid products to purchase tobacco
9 products, vapor products, alternative nicotine products, or e-liquid products
10 from a person other than a licensed manufacturer, licensed wholesaler, or
11 other licensed retailer.

SECTION 9. Arkansas Code § 26-57-232(a)(2), concerning wholesaler
13 restrictions and criminal violations of wholesalers, is amended to read as
14 follows:
15 (2) Except as otherwise provided herein, the wholesaler may sell
16 tobacco products, vapor products, alternative nicotine products, or e-liquid
17 products only to persons properly licensed under this subchapter

Here is a link to the permit information, and instructions: http://www.atc.ar.gov/forms/Documents/REVAPORBUSINESS.pdf

Here is a link to the SB978/ACT1235: http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2015/2015R/Pages/BillInformation.aspx?measureno=SB978

I don't speak leagaleese, but my simple mind sees this as very bad for the vapors in Arkansas.

This thing was not on my radar.  I got an email from change.org that linked here: https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate-u-s-house-of-representatives-president-of-the-united-states-reject-the-fda-s-deeming-of-vapor-products-as-tobacco-products-3810d737-ccd4-4595-a600-50f3f0c55934/u/11521264?tk=E2xEjZNc0YO6ZOA-USf_H1xFEFuIAJ8tM56O9-ecfQk&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email

 

[Compenstine]

Looks like same crap Indiana passed recently. Which in layman terms is making manufactures subject to licensing in every state which will will put 99% out of business that sell bulk to B&M stores. Though Indiana went 20 steps further.

 

This is basically a permit to sell tobacco products like any store selling cigarettes would need.

First line of the Permit:

If you are opening or buying a retail location, please follow these steps to properly set up your business and apply for your Retail Exclusive Vapor Product and Alternative Nicotine Product Permit. If you need any assistance, please contact our office.

This looks as if it is for B&M sales in that state

[jasonculp]

It is scary for the industry as a whole. I think there will have to be some lawsuits to clarify the wording. There seems to be 3 different opinions of what it does. 1 it stops all sales of vape related products unless licensed by the state, 2 it only covers liquid, or 3 it only covers B&Ms. I am not good enough to decipher the law, but it is scary.

[Earthling789]

I'm shocked AR is going this route... not surprised about IN though...  These states (actually all of them) are hurting for revenue, and until they get the "holy-grail" of vaping taxed as a "tobacco product" accomplished, so they can restore their Tobacco Settlement slush-fund, they are simply trying to regulate/license/fee the "local" industry to death, so they can make "some" additional revenue from the local shops.  It has nothing to do with safety, public health, or children... it has to do with the almighty dollar and the government's ability to spend OUR money like blank checks.  I know the owner of my favorite B&M, and he's complained that the local government has imposed fees on his business on-par with the local bars.  For what he's paying to operate, he may as well have a liquor license!

I've said it a billion times before... if the government (Federal/State/Local) actually cared about our safety, we'd be required to wear fire-suits and helmets in our cars, and all cars would be required to have roll-cages!

The Nicotine I buy is derived chemically, not extracted from a tobacco plant (or any plants that contain Nicotine), therefore it is NOT a tobacco product, and any laws the deem Nicotine as a tobacco product are BS laws.  Nicotine exists in hundreds of plants, fruits, and vegetables... but Nicotine is evil because it exists in tobacco?  Yeah, right!

[Compenstine]

It is like Obama said in a speech, we the people need government control because we are not capable of handling our own lives. This is our government today. Micro manage peoples lives so they have full control over us... Can anyone say Hitler/Communism...

[Compenstine]

It took me a while to find exact quote, but this is our Government today and how they view "Us."

Obama Said and I Quote:

"Ordinary men and women are too small minded to govern their own affairs, and that order and progress can only come when individuals surrender their rights to an all powerful sovereign."