Let's Talk Temp Control

[Rixter]

Rixter must have forgot about us.   I was hoping he'd chime in on this too.

​

Sorry guys, but I've been a little "distracted" lately. I had an IMR battery pop (and blaze) on me yesterday morning while installing it in a mech mod (Grand Vapor Sentinel clone) and it destroyed the mod and burned my hand pretty good (2nd degree). I didn't know IMRs would flame...now I do.

As far as temperature control mods go, I've only used the Heatvape Invader Mini 50W, but I would recommend it to anyone who's looking to find an affordable TC mod that works as advertised. I really love mine and I use it every day with an eGo ONE 1.8ml tank. I disassembled the stock 1Ω coil head and refitted it with a .15Ω Ni200 coil (12 slightly spaced wraps, 3mm, 28g) and run it on the Invader Mini at 400F and 20W. It's the perfect mouth to lung setup for me.

I also use the Invader Mini with a Kanger Subtank Mini base with bell cap and RBA head (12 tight wraps, 2.5mm, 28g) which meters at .12Ω. This setup has a lot of airflow and since I use it for direct lung hits, I prefer it set to 450F and 25W.

 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Rixter

[Compenstine]

Ouch! I hope you heal fast! Do you think it was a fault in the mod or a faulty battery that caused it?

[Bebop]

I'm leaning towards a non contact coil (spaced wraps).  I seem to get the best performance with them.  I noticed on a contact coil that while they are easier to wick, the coil seemed to change shape after use. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not but I put in some "perfect" contact builds (with a lot of fussing - Ni200 is not as forgiving as kanthal and easily bumps out of shape) only to have them seem changed after use, like they're shifting a little on the heat cycle or something. Not absolutely sure about that though.

im now playing around with wrapping on a machine screw. An 8-32 machine screw makes a pretty decent but tight non contact coil around 3mm. It's a little more delicate to wick but seems ok and you can adjust it a little easier after its all put together.

ive read that some guys are using Ni/kanthal twists and they work for temp control but I'm not that far along on my experiments and not ready to dive in with more complexity yet, lol.

[Rixter]

Definitely the mod's fault. Rubber O-ring to keep it from making a connection instead of spring. Should've known better. I claim complete responsibility.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Rixter

[Bebop]

Rixter!  I hope you're ok, man. That sounds nasty. 

[jasonculp]

 

ive read that some guys are using Ni/kanthal twists and they work for temp control but I'm not that far along on my experiments and not ready to dive in with more complexity yet, lol.

​I was thinking that Comp could make some tiger wire with some 28 ga nickel and flat kantal....I don't know if it would work.  It takes a bunch of wraps with this stuff...lol

[Rixter]

Rixter!  I hope you're ok, man. That sounds nasty. 

​Thanks, man. I've been wanting to take a couple of days off work anyway, so it was perfect timing.

[Compenstine]

​

ive read that some guys are using Ni/kanthal twists and they work for temp control but I'm not that far along on my experiments and not ready to dive in with more complexity yet, lol.

​Hummmm I asked Evolv abut this:

Hi Kent,

It wouldn't damage the board but it will not work in temp mode.  The board will likely see it as a Kanthal build.  

 

Thanks,

Brandon Ward

Evolv, Inc.

	12/1/14

[Rixter]

​Hummmm I asked Evolv abut this:

Hi Kent,

It wouldn't damage the board but it will not work in temp mode.  The board will likely see it as a Kanthal build.  

 

Thanks,

Brandon Ward

Evolv, Inc.

	12/1/14

​That's weird because I've also heard about people using twisted Nickel and Kanthal (for added coil strength) strands successfully in TC mode. The TC circuit should recognize the path of least resistance, which would be the Nickel wire strand.

[Compenstine]

After seeing this tread I'm going to try what I had planned to do and see how it works. I never did try it, wish I would have now. I would have been the first had I just tried it. I was thinking about this way back in Dec 2014. LOL

 

[cany]

Glad your ok Rixter

[jasonculp]

Just tried this and it works fine.  It is 28 gauge Ni200 and 28 gauge Kanthal twisted together.  It does change the settings a bit.  I can't quite figure out what it is doing yet.

 

[jasonculp]

I vaped the 28Ni200/28Kanthal for a bit, and it was not tasting too good.  I made some twisted 28 gauge Ni200.  In my Lemo2 with a .07ohm coil, it is working pretty good.  So far it is tasting superior to the regular 28 gauge Ni200.  Sorry no pics.

[DragonGunner]

I vaped the 28Ni200/28Kanthal for a bit, and it was not tasting too good.  I made some twisted 28 gauge Ni200.  In my Lemo2 with a .07ohm coil, it is working pretty good.  So far it is tasting superior to the regular 28 gauge Ni200.  Sorry no pics.

​How many wraps and what size was your twisted 28 gauge ni200 coil to get a .07 ohm coil?

[jasonculp]

​How many wraps and what size was your twisted 28 gauge ni200 coil to get a .07 ohm coil?

​I am sorry.  I didn't even pay attention.  I made it on a 3 mm  screwdriver.  I will pull it apart tomorrow today and look at it.  I wish I had put another wrap or 2 on it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by jasonculp

[DragonGunner]

No worries at all Jason. 

I just experimented with a twisted build in my subtank mini. 30 gauge kanthal twisted with 28 gauge ni200. 8 wraps brought it out to .13 ohms (not bad for first attempt). I have it set upon my vapor flask at 450 degrees and she's doing great at 30 watts and is not hitting temp protection with long 3-4 second pulls. Flavor is pretty good, but still not like kanthal alone. The vapor production is plenty with nice dense clouds. It was very easy to build with a wire gauge stiffness about the same as 26 gauge kanthal but a bit more springy. Sorry no pics.

[cany]

Dragon,

 

How do you know when you hit temp protection??

[jasonculp]

I have it set upon my vapor flask at 450 degrees and she's doing great at 30 watts and is not hitting temp protection with long 3-4 second pulls.

​Which Vapor Flask do you have?  Authentic or the Clone?  If it is the clone, does it have the "Nickel Purity" setting?  If so, that is the same chip as mine has.

Dragon,

 

How do you know when you hit temp protection??

​On mine, either you can feel it, or see it.  I have had it set properly and stood in front of the mirror and it shows the temp running up and down and the power (watts) moving up and down.  Eventually it will say "Temperature Protection" on the screen.  When this happens, you can feel/hear it.

[cany]

​Which Vapor Flask do you have?  Authentic or the Clone?  If it is the clone, does it have the "Nickel Purity" setting?  If so, that is the same chip as mine has.

​On mine, either you can feel it, or see it.  I have had it set properly and stood in front of the mirror and it shows the temp running up and down and the power (watts) moving up and down.  Eventually it will say "Temperature Protection" on the screen.  When this happens, you can feel/hear it.

​I havent seen it on the screen, do you feel the hit temp drop?

[DragonGunner]

Dragon,

 

How do you know when you hit temp protection??

​For the Vapor Flask you can see the screen when taking a hit. If temp protection goes into effect it will say it on the screen. Plus you can feel the drop as you are taking a drag. It just gets weak like vaping at a very low wattage.

 

[DragonGunner]

​Which Vapor Flask do you have?  Authentic or the Clone?  If it is the clone, does it have the "Nickel Purity" setting?  If so, that is the same chip as mine has.

​On mine, either you can feel it, or see it.  I have had it set properly and stood in front of the mirror and it shows the temp running up and down and the power (watts) moving up and down.  Eventually it will say "Temperature Protection" on the screen.  When this happens, you can feel/hear it.

​I have the authentic Vapor Flask, bought by my wife for my birthday (hellava b-day gift).

Edited June 6, 2015 by DragonGunner

[jasonculp]

​I have the original Vapor Flask, bought by my wife for my birthday (hellava b-day gift).

​That's cool!  My wife, while supportive, thinks I spend way too much now!  I would love it if she took an interest.

[DragonGunner]

Just tried this and it works fine.  It is 28 gauge Ni200 and 28 gauge Kanthal twisted together.  It does change the settings a bit.  I can't quite figure out what it is doing yet.

 

​Can you elaborate on how it changes the settings? That part confused me.

[jasonculp]

​Can you elaborate on how it changes the settings? That part confused me.

​Actually, it was really strange.  The taste was off.  The settings were not the same (where I normally run 30 watts/400 degrees it would never reach 250)  I torched the coils before I installed, and then dry burned at 600 degrees before I wicked and it just was off.  We are headed to town right now.  I will try a new build when I get home.

On a side note, the Lemo 2 isn't working good at all.  I think the 2 peice base is causing some problems or my build isn't good.  It kept adjusting my wattage down very low and showing high temp.  It is really weird.  I will work on it tonight too.

I need to grab another temp control mod to rule out mod troubles.

I am back to the SubTank mini with factory .1 Ni200 coils.

[DragonGunner]

I do believe although very easy to build on the Lemo the removable base does come into play. For example if you tighten it a little more after you add juice etc I think it could play a part in slight variations with the ohm or temperature readings. I noticed mine does the same from time to time but then again it could just be the ni200 wire shifting about after being heated and then cooled.

I have just put in a new twisted coil in the Lemo and due to the twisted wire being more rigid I was able to use the holes on the deck rather than trapping the leads. Not even close to breaking them off. I am gonna experiment more with different gauges of kanthal and ni200 wires and see what suits me best. I have found out that I rarely reach temperature protection if I am at least .15-.18 ohm and I can really crank it up as opposed to the .11-.14 range where I hit temperature protection more often. Weird how it goes. There's so much variables at play when dealing with temperature control that it drives me crazy. At the end of the day I still think I like temperature controlled devices. It's just a huge learning curve.

Good luck with your experiments later on. Let us know how it goes.

DG