HOOKER Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 sorry for the pic quality but you get the general idea..
jasonculp Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I found this at: http://www.atr.org/sites/default/files/assets/ECIgTaxThreats2015.png jonnoh and Bebop 2
Bebop Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 What do you think that means - 75% wholesale? And so forth....
jasonculp Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 What do you think that means - 75% wholesale? And so forth....I can't imagine.Surely it isn't a 75% tax. If so...who would do it?
jasonculp Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I can see that they could tax the finished product, but there is nearly no way to tax PG, VG, and Flavorings. It would touch too many other industries. Nicotine, they probably could. I don't see what would stop people from making and freely distributing "do it yourself kits...less nicotine" 3 small bottles that could be to make a cake...or whatever. I mean if Michigan and Texas both imposed taxes what would stop Comp from sending me a bottle of flavorings with instructions: add 20ml of VG and 10ml of PG?
Earthling789 Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 The proposed taxes are per ML of "ready to vape" product in most instances. "Wholesale" tax are levied on the seller and/or manufacturer (for ingredients), which as we all know means those extra costs get passed onto the consumer as a "hidden tax"... or "taxation without representation".The bottom line is this... States have spent money they hadn't yet received from the Cigarette Settlements (big-tobacco pay-offs), and with declining cigarette sales, states are operating in the red. They see a win-win if they can get e-liquids classified as "tobacco products", because Big-Tobacco will be forced to pay-up even more on the settlement checks, FDA will get full regulatory control, and the states (and Fed) will get to tax the crap out them. Attempting to tax per ML is just a preemptive strike to generate revenue to cover their overspending (before it becomes apparent to the citizens).The 15% tax per ML in Kentucky was defeated several times, but Dems have attempted to ear-mark this same tax bill onto dozens of other bills, including education reform, transportation, agriculture bills, and a bill that did nothing else but re-define state-level zoning. Had it passed, it would have meant an extra 8-15 cents per ML... or $0.80 to $1.50 added to a 10ml bottle of juice... $2.40 to $4.50 added per 30ml bottle! Basic math won't lie, and an additional $2.40 to my $11 bottle of house-brand is a 25% increase, and the same 25% would apply to the 30ml bottle of a premium juice like Mad Alchemist or Suicide Bunny, pushing them upwards of $1/ML!
HOOKER Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) why would I need a key??link?? this pic was txtd to me & couldnt get my ph to load it right so I mailed it to myself, then took pic & uploaded it to Pbucket..I'm glad someone had a good link to article cuz all I had was a pic msg..it was newsworthy soo I posted it.. :-) Edited June 4, 2015 by HOOKER
FXRich Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 The thing about Oregon is any new tax has to go on the ballot. unless the legislature passes it on a emergency basis. So far the legislature hasn't done that. (no emergency) Thing is once the new tax goes into effect they can raise it without a vote of the people.
Vapor Guy Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I can't imagine.Surely it isn't a 75% tax. If so...who would do it?Why not a pack of Regular smokes costs about $3-$4 in Chicago Or NY and in Chicago it is like $10-$12 per pack most of it being taxes
Vapor Guy Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Why do you think Juice company's and us that use vapor do not want these laws with taxes to pass? Some states don't even want flavors they just want tobacco& Menthol. Some of these laws and taxes will kill the small sized juice business Compenstine and jonnoh 2
FXRich Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Don't know how other states do it but here once a state tax goes into effect the locals can impose their own tax, that's why the stinkies are 4.50 - 6.00 per pack here and 6.00 - 8.00 per pack in Portland. But on the reservation they are about 20.00 per cartoon.
jasonculp Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Why not a pack of Regular smokes costs about $3-$4 in Chicago Or NY and in Chicago it is like $10-$12 per pack most of it being taxes You are correct. It just blows my mind that a state would go from 0% to 75% in a single jump. It would make no sense. It would drive virtually all of the resources that they could reasonably collect to other states, and in turn create a black market they could in no way regulate. As long as most of the supplies to make ejuice are readily available from any drugstore, hobby supply, and such, why would anyone in those states continue to produce it? Granted it is the government, and they have proven time and again that sometimes they don't understand that if you send the business to other states, or countries you loose all of the taxes.Don't know how other states do it but here once a state tax goes into effect the locals can impose their own tax, that's why the stinkies are 4.50 - 6.00 per pack here and 6.00 - 8.00 per pack in Portland. But on the reservation they are about 20.00 per cartoon.When I quit, mine were just under $50/carton after taxes, but I got 90% from Mexico, or reservation. Vaping is not like smoking though. Vapers build their own mods, mix their own juice, etc. We don't rely on leaf tobacco. My pharmacy keeps nicotine here in my little town, and you don't need a prescription to buy it.
FXRich Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I sometimes buy syringes from the pharmacy here to do my juices but never asked them about nicotine. But right now I have about 1 1/2 liters of 100mg base so not going to worry too much about it.
Bebop Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 why would I need a key??link?? this pic was txtd to me & couldnt get my ph to load it right so I mailed it to myself, then took pic & uploaded it to Pbucket..I'm glad someone had a good link to article cuz all I had was a pic msg..it was newsworthy soo I posted it.. :-)The key wasn't in your picture.
jasonculp Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I sometimes buy syringes from the pharmacy here to do my juices but never asked them about nicotine. But right now I have about 1 1/2 liters of 100mg base so not going to worry too much about it.I have not dipped my toe in the water of mixing my own. My pharmacist is a good friend and he used to get me all kinds of weird crap for all of my hobbies. He used to get me lanolin and a few compounds I don't remember for bullet lube back when I used to cast my own bullets. I really like the juice I am using, and don't plan on changing unless Comp quits making it, the Government makes him quit, or I quit vaping. I have toyed with the idea of stocking up on base, but I wanted to sit back and see what shakes out.I am already trying to cut back on my nicotine use (I am studying for a blood test...lol) I have a big physical coming up the first of next month and I want to be as clean as possible for it. I could see me totally quitting if it came down to it. I really enjoy the hobby, but it they make it too hard or expensive, I just will not do it any more.
FXRich Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 The best bullet lube for my purposes has been mutton tallow, started casting bullets when I got into muzzle loading, then I got into black powder cartridge. Use a 86 Winchester for hunting, or sometimes a sharps. Brew beer too. Sometimes I think I have too many hobbies. jasonculp 1
Vapor Guy Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 You are correct. It just blows my mind that a state would go from 0% to 75% in a single jump. It would make no sense. It would drive virtually all of the resources that they could reasonably collect to other states, and in turn create a black market they could in no way regulate. As long as most of the supplies to make ejuice are readily available from any drugstore, hobby supply, and such, why would anyone in those states continue to produce it? Granted it is the government, and they have proven time and again that sometimes they don't understand that if you send the business to other states, or countries you loose all of the taxes.When I quit, mine were just under $50/carton after taxes, but I got 90% from Mexico, or reservation. Vaping is not like smoking though. Vapers build their own mods, mix their own juice, etc. We don't rely on leaf tobacco. My pharmacy keeps nicotine here in my little town, and you don't need a prescription to buy it.Like you said a Black Market will come of it. Is what it is I guess. I don't get the Government at all. First they tax the crap out of Regular Smokes. Then they make Tobacco company's put warnings on how bad smokes are and they can kill you. Then they launch campaigns quit smoking & let us help you stop smoking etc.. Then some outside sources do the same and follow suit. So do some large drug companies. Now that we stopped smoking like they preached in the first place, now they are like oh **** where is our large tax dollar revenue stream, we are losing all of our money from smokers who made the change to vaping. lol Government, politicians, elected officials are supposed to listen to what the people want, not make up there own minds on what they want. I can promise nobody that vapes said hey lets tax this, and nobody that smokes said hey lets tax vaping, maybe a couple board fools, but other then that there is a louder noise from us saying do not tax this, do not classify this the same as smoking tobacco. Do they listen to the people? NOPE. They listen to big business, the drug company that is losing billions on people quitting by not using there drugs, big business like the tobacco company that wants to level the playing field, hey vaping should cost what smoking does they yell. Government is big business itself. The wasteful spending, the wars nobody wanted, the big taxes on the little guys. If you think about it for to long it makes your head spin. It even hurts worse when it is realized we cant do anything about it. It was the same with online poker, the government destroyed it, while other governments regulated it in a fair way. Earthling789, FXRich and jonnoh 3
FXRich Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 When cigarette taxes decline they have to replace them with something else, and vaping is a growing industry which makes us victims of the state crime family. Earthling789 and jonnoh 2
Bebop Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Does anyone know if the 75% on wholesale includes the gear as well?
Earthling789 Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Does anyone know if the 75% on wholesale includes the gear as well?To my knowledge, it would only apply to juice, as they want to make juice listed as a "tobacco product"... but give them time and they'll "try" to tax the hardware, too. jonnoh, Mirage and HOOKER 3
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