HOOKER Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I called it bogus cuz they just wanna test 2 groups.. Cigarette Smokers and Cigarette Smokers that VAPE also.... Why not add 2 more catagories??? VAPERS Non Smokers http://badgerherald.com/news/2015/02/18/uw-receives-federal-grant-to-study-e-cigarette-use/#.VOh7QITnZQB Edited February 21, 2015 by HOOKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crush02342002 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 doesn't make sense, you have to have a control group and the non smokers would be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOKER Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yup thats what I think also... My main ?? is,,, What idiot wood wanna fund a study with $3.7mil,, thats gonna automatically lean to one side??? that wood be a waste of good money & a complete waste of 5yrs!!! Some professor in Wisconsin must be in his newbie stage & wants to make sure he makes in tenure??? I call BS on this study!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rixter Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 From the article: "The study is primarily interested in people who are “dual users,” both smoking and vaping, Jorenby said. They will be looking at the effects over a period of time and whether users continue to use both products, quit smoking and only use e-cigarettes or give up on e-cigarettes and smoke only regular cigarettes, he said." Looks like the goal of this study is to find out if vaping really is an effective smoking cessation tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I agree Rixter, this seems like a study that could help us vapers or slam us down big time!!! I guess we will see. If they do what they say there going to do, it might be a positive thing...We will see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I agree Rixter, this seems like a study that could help us vapers or slam us down big time!!! I guess we will see. If they do what they say there going to do, it might be a positive thing...We will see... Ahh, the hook is there... but sadly they'll never set it, I fear. Far too many times are the premise written to "bait", and then the bias results perform the "switch", providing the results desired. Shall I save everyone $3.7M? "Our results are inconclusive. While a small percenatge of dual-users moved to vaping more and more, not all dual-users quit cigarette smoking entirely. Furthermore, a small sample of our dual-users actually stopped vaping all together and returned to smoking alone. Further study will need to be performed, over the long-term, to decide the effects vaping has over the human-body." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 @ earthling - lol, I see you read a lot of these reports. I haven't read it yet. Is it funded already? The million dollar question- who's funding it? Compenstine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 @ earthling - lol, I see you read a lot of these reports. I haven't read it yet. Is it funded already? The million dollar question- who's funding it? The grant is for a five-year study from the National Cancer Institute of the National Institutes of Health and the Food and Drug Administration, Jorenby said. Already I'm skeptical... all the $ is tainted, just like the study will be. If you need proof of the "study to prove the results they want"? Read this statement from the article: "One thing that has been overlooked is even though the FDA does allow e-cigarettes manufacturers to make claims that they will help people quit smoking, there’s no evidence that they’re effective smoking treatments, Jorenby said. A lot of people who smoke e-cigarettes for that reason end up using both products", he [Piper] said. The FDA allows holistic and herbal manufacturers to claim anything they want... and have for decades (at least 40), without shutting them down for false-claims. Talk about your double-standard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 It's interesting. I know a lot of people who struggled between vaping and smoking when they started out vaping. Only logical. But I don't know anybody who smokes AND vapes as a regular routine. Typically, if a smoker is vaping it's because they want off ciggys. Otherwise, they just smoke. I know one vaper personally who took a year to get off cigs. It wasn't until he had the right set up for him that got him off cigs and he's now cig free for 6 months or so. But he either vaped and then back slid into smoking on and off over that time. He never really vaped and smoked regularly. He always had the goal to quit. Technically he "used both products" but it would unfair to categorize him as someone who vaped and smoked at the same time, the implication being that it wasn't successful as a smoking cessation product when in fact ultimately it was. It will be interesting to see how that data can be manipulated. The length of time that a person remains in the program would be a significant aspect of the study. Some take longer than others. The "inconclusive" result of the study becomes more suspect if these factors are not considered. It would be an interesting poll to take - How long did it take the individual to get completely off cigs?. Or another might be - have you ever used vaping to supplement your smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I'll be interested in seeing what e-cig materials they provide in the study. We all know if they provide Blu or NJoy, etc. the results will be highly skewed to the conclusion that e-cigs are not a cessation tool, or at least that they do not provide any incentive to stop smoking. If they allow users to have REAL equipment, and a full choice of the market's juices, I feel that all "smokers-that-vape" will be "vapers" within a few months But, I am sure if that happens, they'll call the study "inconclusive" or "tainted"... request another $4M to repeat the test using "tighter control groups and methods". Edited February 21, 2015 by Earthling789 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Wow, and I just re-read the last quote in the article... (now I'm peeved) “There have been a lot of concerns that kids who wouldn’t otherwise be exposed to nicotine have used e-cigarettes because they’re not thought to be risky,” Jorenby said. “That will result in many kids ending up smoking cigarettes.” Statements like this from researchers clearly indicate their intentions for performing the study, and their bias towards a conclusion. I would not be surprised if their conclusion was not already written, and they just need some 'gubmn't money' and time to waste. Let me translate the last statement by Jorenby into non-liberal/progressive-ese... We want to prove that vaping leads to smoking, because the theory is that "kids" will be drawn to vaping, thinking it's safer, and they will get hooked on the nicotine, and move to cigarettes because vaping won't provide adequate nicotine levels to make them avoid smoking. So, their conclusion will be (based on poor data, faulty premise, and inefficient equipment) that vaping leads to smoking in "children". There are just sooo many issues with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Haha. Good point. And the truth is they will be more likely to use "consumer friendly" products (read cigalikes) as those types of products will be assumed to be the mainstream. Plus, they won't be dealing in customizing the products , including juices, for the test subjects with the purpose of getting them off cigs. Which brings in the question, will they be coaching or councelling the test subjects in any way as part of the study. I mean, part of the success is having an amazing support group like this forum and it's members. We deal with it everyday as people get dialed in on their setups. Without that support it would be a much rougher go of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Oh, I'm sure there will be "counseling" and "coaching" going on... but it will not be the encouragement to push e-cigs, push the proper nicotine levels, push for "likeable" flavors, etc. etc. etc.... A support group? How dare you? LOL... They want to encourage smoking, not e-cigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 By the way, I'll be composing my letter of complaint to the following, over the weekend: University of Wisconsin President University of Wisconsin Director of Center for Tobacco Research and Intervention University of Wisconsin (both named researchers) FDA National Cancer Institute of the National Institutes of Health As well as my congressmen/representatives I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I read these crappy "studies" and propaganda news reports almost daily, and I DO respond to them (and those who waste my tax-dollars funding them). I'm fed up with my betters in government maligning facts to suit their agenda of Control, Power, and Wealth (for themselves), in the name of "public safety". Just like cars... if the government were truly worried about "public safety", all cars would be required to be equipped with roll-cages, 5-point safety harnesses, breathalyzer ignition cut-offs, and all drivers/passengers would be required to wear fire-suits, helmets, and neck-braces.... just to cross the street!! Furthermore, I'm all for personal choice in helmet laws for motorcycles... but if you're going to legally allow someone to ride a motorcycle without a helmet (while wearing flip-flops, shorts, and no shirt), then you (gov't) have no right to cite me for not wearing a seat-belt in my car, which by-the-way has 11 air-bags, fuel-cut-off, active head-restraints, impact absorbing steering column, and crumple-zones! Hypocrisy, I say! Sorry... I got back on my soapbox again... </rant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOKER Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 WOW,, I had no idea this thread was gonna result in pisstivity (but it got me PO'd) sooo I figgerd I'd share it I'm a newbie here but this OKIE Insomiac RedNeck reads a lot of newspapers A WHOLE LOTTA NEWSPAPERS!!!! If I see sumpin credible bout VAPOR I'm gonna POST IT.. I think this study needs ta be expanded to include many other groups of people just not use 2 segments 450 million smokers in the US 4.7million Vapers (EX SMOKERS) the VAPOR market is in its infancy stage like my DR. said the other day Vapor has ta be better than smoking cigarettes & is glad I MADE THE SWITCH!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOKER Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 earthling yer post musta went up while I was pecking on the keyboard... WELL STATED Earthling789 my thoughts exactly I'll join you in the writing of the letters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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