Output RMS and Output Mean

[NahkriinKrosis]

What is the difference?

I held the minus on my Vamo V5 for about 15 seconds and it will switch between these two settings?

[wizard46304]

I recommend leaving it on rms, mean is how it sounds, it will scorch your juice at the lowest setting.

[NahkriinKrosis]

Read some info here when I googled it. http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/11065706/Vamo_VV_Mod_eGo_Variable_volt_watt_APV.html

[spydre]

Yeah, Mean means that the setting will actually go up and down only average out or "mean" what you set it at, which is generally not what we are after as vapers - we like specificity. At least I do. I don't want my voltage or power going up or down based on a pulse width modulation or whatever determines it.

[NahkriinKrosis]

Awesome spydre thank you

[irwink]

RMS - root mean square

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square

Look at the waveforms pictured. The first is rms. The modulation is much smoother. Mean modulation is much more coarse - basically switching the voltage source on-off-on-off-on-off at a rate where the mean voltage over time is the desired voltage output. It makes for a very hot vape and is harder on device coils than rms.

I've yet to encounter anyone that prefers mean over rms.

[spydre]

^^ That too. Irwink, or anyone else, that's the same as pulse width modulation, right? Or am I off base here?

[NahkriinKrosis]

Thank you for the info! Sticking with rms:)

[Proetus]

Pulse Width Modulation is how the majority of mods regulate power to the device you are using. Every 33.3mhz chip functions the same way, it stops and starts the power to achieve your set voltage wattage. That rattlesnake sound you hear is it happening. All sigelei/kmax/vamo etc etc use the same chipset. Tree rue are a few mods I can think of that use different chips, Provari, Sigelei Legend, DNA 20 mods, Nivel chips which if you put them on a scope will actually have a flat line and have no pulsing. Which in turn equals a smoother vape.

[irwink]

All vv/vw pv's use pulse width modulation to deliver the user's desired voltage. The difference is how well they deliver the desired voltage set point be that by using VV or VW. In either case voltage fires the delivery device and forces current to flow.

Devices like the Provari or those that incorporate the Nivel chip do it best by actual measurement. Other devices, at least for me, deliver close to the same user experience for far less money than the Provari or Svoe Mesto Semovar. Examples from my own experience include the eVic, Sigelei Zmax and Vamo.

[Proetus]

I've had them all other then dna20(soon) the Provari beats them all hands down.

[spydre]

What about the VTR - I'm assuming that uses it as well? No big deal, just want to know what I'm dealing with.

And how is that different from mean?

[irwink]

I've had them all other then dna20(soon) the Provari beats them all hands down.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll bet you've never tried a Semovar.

[Proetus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll bet you've never tried a Semovar.

You are correct, but it is not a 33hz chipset, it uses the Nivel Chipset.

What about the VTR - I'm assuming that uses it as well? No big deal, just want to know what I'm dealing with.

And how is that different from mean?

A little digging around this is what I came up with Spydre..

The iTaste VV and MVP fire a higher PWM signal, similar to the 800+ Hz signal that the Provari does. The VTR allegedly fires a PWM signal in the 60's, higher than the 33.3 Hz of most inexpensive mods, but nowhere near the PWM signals that the above three mods use.

I was surprised that Innokin chose not to use the same PWM chipset in the VTR as the MVP & VV3. Perhaps this was because of a cost factor, to keep the price affordable enough for this higher end mod, but I'm only guessing on this.

Some people notice a "hotter" vape from the "rattlesnake effect", and may actually prefer it. Others can't tell a difference from one to another, so they could care less. So to some people the type of the PWM used is important, to others its not.

[spydre]

You are correct, but it is not a 33hz chipset, it uses the Nivel Chipset.

A little digging around this is what I came up with Spydre..

That may explain why my Honey Wood is wanting to be vaped lower than it was on the MVP, although I recall vaping it higher on the Sigelei. Or maybe I'm just chain vaping it again.....

[DJ Colonel Corn]

OK so I just got my 26650 VAMO recently, and have discovered all the options.

I was confused by this RMS/Mean setting, so I google'd it and found this forum.

So I kind of understand but..... let's make it clear for me as I'm pretty slow.

So RMS is pulsed (micro) and Mean is direct ? Mean isn't correct voltage ? Well.

I'll tell you my experience from playing with it.

With both ecig tank nautilus 5ml, and a oil globe, seego vhit.

So with the nautilus I find on RMS output i need 3.4 volts and its a pleasant vape.

With is on Mean power I need to step it down to 3 watts... which Im figuring is abou 2.3 volts or so.

SO anyway.

The hits on mean are very nice and satisfactory, and its taking much less power. Cool. However.

This unit seems to make my nautilus warm to the touch on Mean power. I may be vaping too much for this e-huge, not sure. I'm getting better results with RMS Power, but still some heating.

The unit itself is not warm at all, just the tank.

So what's up guys ? I have another 26650 battery that never heats up my tank, on 3.2 volts (doesnt have power opitons). Nor has any of my old pens heated up the tank.

Any help here ?

Thanks a mil in advance, and thanks so much for making the thread !

luvin' my new e-huge

Edited November 1, 2014 by DJ Colonel Corn

[jasonculp]

This is one of the easiest to understand videos I could find on the subject.

All it really amounts to is how you measure the voltage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpqDY21obaM

I have also heard some people say it is how the device varies the PWM with respect to atomizer resistance.

My opinion is it is just how it is measured and displayed.

[fishguy1123]

RMS is a better way to guage the power you use/need to adjust to taste.

I will however take this time to remind you about the drug talk/device issues on this forum.

We're happy to help with any vape related questions, however alternative uses will not be allowed.

I don't want to seem harsh, just want to see you get started on the right foot here....

[DJ Colonel Corn]

RMS is a better way to guage the power you use/need to adjust to taste.

I will however take this time to remind you about the drug talk/device issues on this forum.

We're happy to help with any vape related questions, however alternative uses will not be allowed.

I don't want to seem harsh, just want to see you get started on the right foot here....

Hey, thanks for the heads-up.

Luckily I didn't go into detail on that device's performance.

Will do.

Sooo.. it's just a way to measure power and not change it ? Hmm that doesn't make much sense. For common sense reasons but also becasuse there is a noticeable difference in performance, taste, and power level required to acheive the best of those things. So I still don't understand but I think what I'm getting from the earlier posts is it has something to do wiith micro-pulsing, which most ecig batteries do, and with direct current/waveform/no pulsing. That's my take on it so far, but I could be completely wrong !

So I'd love for more people to chime in on this. I'm primarily using the Aspire Nautilus BDC tank, which many have recommended for this battery. Any other suggestions? The one that comes with it is plastic and leaks, heh.

Looking forward to reading more posts on this.

Happy Vaping !

luvin' my 26650 VAMO

Edited November 2, 2014 by DJ Colonel Corn

[jasonculp]

Something you have to understand is all electronic devices, of this type,use a method to boost the voltage, or higher voltage batteries and a method to reduce voltage. This makes your 3.7 volt battery put out 5.5 volts for example. The read out on your device is not extremely accurate, because without an oscilloscope to measure the output the display must use mathmatic formulas to give you a readout. Here are the formulas for a Vrms and Vavg (mean). http://www.rfcafe..onversion.htm

We use Vrms because it takes the Alternating Current (I actually think most use DC-DC duty cycle, which produces a sinewave) that is put out by a PMW to provide us with a Voltage that closer represents the equal amount in Direct Current (Like produced like a mechanical mod).

I am not sure how your device uses Vrms and Mean to adjust the voltage to your atty. I guess you would have to ask the engineer that designed the circuit.

In my opinion, our devices are not designed to be as accurate as many would like. I really feel like the numbers on the readout are just there so you can find what you like and get it back to that setting again later. If you like the rms output, use it, or vice versa. There are many people that are perfectly happy with the twisting the little dial on the bottom of a spinner, never knowing exactly how much voltage they are actually set to.

I just got an iStick a few days ago. I just watched PBusardo's review. He gives it a thumbs down. His main reason is it uses Mean (Vavg) on it's display rather than Vrms. That is why many people that are using other devices at a certain wattage, find this one is too hot at the same wattage (or voltage). He goes in to quite a bit of detail and explains it pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_W1G7p_fCJw

I hope this helps.

PS: To all the electrical engineers/electronics experts. I am a hobbiest, I don't claim to be and expert at all...if I screwed this up, please let me know!

Edited November 2, 2014 by jasonculp

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Hey thanks for the replies ! Keep 'em coming ! This is helping me to understand this all.

I like the last post of jasonculp's, saying, "really feel like the numbers on the readout are just there so you can find what you like and get it back to that setting again later. If you like the rms output, use it, or vice versa."

So basically it's a means of measurement, I gather, and, well, it's all about trial-and-error and finding what you like.

I was under the silly assumption that when different devices read a voltage, they were actually sending that much voltage to the coil.

Awesome posts and forum !

[jasonculp]

Please don't get me wrong, the voltage reading is close. Like in Phil's video, the volts were off by 1 volt at low voltage, and much closer at the higher ones.

I hate to say I have kind of become obsessed with this subject now. I have been reading everything I can find about boost/buck circuits in ecigs. What makes this so bad is that I have no desire to build my own circuit or mod for that matter. It is just curiosity. If I did build one, it would be a dual 18650 fully mechanical with no wires.

With the Sigelei 100W for around $100 and the IPV3 around $150, I don't feel like the many hours to build something would be worth it. If I had a creative mind, or a new idea, it might be different. I am sure with my brain, I would only come up with something so simple that would not work as good as something I could buy.

[DJ Colonel Corn]

*embarrased*...... haven't seen the video yet. Will watch it tonight, been very busy.

Within 1 volt isn't so accurate when we have measurements going in .1 increments.

Well, so , I will watch the vid and perhaps comment more.

Listen, I'm interested too !! This E-huge has got me lookin at stuff I never saw before, and is WAY over my head.

I put pics up in the e-cigarrette pic forum of it, if you wanna check it out !

[@hope_photography123]

This is one of the easiest to understand videos I could find on the subject.

Persardo? Did I pronounce him correctly? Anyway he and Bill Bottoms videos are so great at breaking things down to simplify to new users and vapors! Great find as I'm waiting for my vvvw vamo mod v5.. So I'll be needing a Alot of info about it I thank you very much for sharing this! [emoji3]

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Uh that URL (youtube site) didn't come thru... can you repost with just the URL please ?

Edited November 10, 2014 by DJ Colonel Corn