Mt Baker Pulling Cinnamon/Vape at your own risk

[spydre]

So, at Vapor Joe's, a new blog just got put up, evidently some recent studies are showing risk when vaping cinnamon. I mean, I knew doing the cinnamon challenge where you swallow a teaspoon of cinnamon was dangerous, but Mt Baker is a very large juice company pulling ALL of their cinnamon flavors. The post, and the clip of Mt. Baker's statement, can be found here:

http://vaporjoe.blogspot.com/2013/11/at-your-own-risk-mtbakervapor-pulls-all.html#links

[Compenstine]

Hummmm I'm not a scientist but there are 2 kinds of cinnamon, Ceylon Cinnamon and Cassia Cinnamon this study only tested Ceylon Cinnamon flavorings. These are also highly concentrated flavorings. It states that "Cinnamon Ceylon was the most cytotoxic of 36 products tested." I wonder if the other, Cassia Cinnamon, would test the same. A very large percentage of the Cinnamon flavorings are also artificial.

These samples also contained Vanillin found in the vanilla bean:

Vanillin

Chemical Compound

Vanillin is a phenolic aldehyde, which is an organic compound with the molecular formula C8H8O3. Its functional groups include aldehyde, ether, and phenol. It is the primary component of the extract of the vanilla bean.

So does this mean vaping Vanilla flavors are also harmful?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Compenstine

[spydre]

I don't know. But it's telling, IMO, that Mt. Baker pulled the product this early. Either they were using the indicated kind, or they don't want to take any chances that further research will reveal more information. So, it might be overcautious, but...

[Compenstine]

The reason I ask is that I make my own cinnamon flavoring from Cassia Cinnamon. Not the artificial concentrates most used. I have been adding to my tobacco juices for what 4 years now. it is my everyday vape

Edited November 21, 2013 by Compenstine

[wizard46304]

Timeless vapor pulled her cinnamon flavor about a week ago as well.

[Compenstine]

I was reading other articles connected to studies of toxins in E-cigarette fluids. These studies are linked on the right hand side of the study that prompted this post. These articles all show similar toxins that affect Human Embryonic Stem Cells and much less toxic to Adult Human Stem Cells. They attribute these Toxins not to Nicotine but to the flavorings added to the fluid. I'm not sure how to asses this except that this does not just involve "cinnamon flavors" but could be true with other flavorings.

I look at all the known Toxins in analogs and the harm it does to the human body and compare those to this. I'm not so sure IMO that this is a "smoking gun" to drop the E-Cigarette as a way to get away from analogs.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Compenstine

[Bebop]

Yes, it is difficult to ascertain from this article the relative damage caused from these chemicals discovered in cinnamon flavorings. I did not see any clear cut measurement of the relative level of cytotoxicity when compared with other chemicals. Simply put, the toxic levels could still be WAY below what could be considered to be dangerous.

Flavoring used in ec juice are the greatest unknown element when it comes to vaping. It would follow that it would be a logical target for criticism since so much is unknown about the effects of vaporizing flavoring. But it is also the subject or area that needs the most research. I'm no chemist, I only play one on an Internet forum. These types of articles are forth coming and are necessary to really establish validity of this new technology. It might be prudent to be cautious concerning cinnamon flavoring but I don't see a definite indictment of cinnamon flavoring or flavoring in general.

Oh yeah, the preceding was my opinion only

Edited November 21, 2013 by Bebop12

[Aquatroy]

My chest isn't happy if I vape heavy cinnamon for too long....just sayin....Thanks for the link SPY!

[Uma]

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/138-cinnamon-flavours-in-e-cigarettes

Details

Created on Thursday, 21 November 2013 17:51

Cinnamon flavours in e-cigarettes: how inappropriate research can misinform the public and the (amateur) professionals

By Dr Farsalinos

Considerable debate has been focused on the issue of cinnamon flavors after a study was published in a toxicology journal declaring that such flavored liquids are cytotoxic. Just one month ago, a study published by our group also found that a cinnamon-flavored liquid was slightly cytotoxic (although still 10 times less toxic that tobacco smoke). I have already sent a letter to the editor of Toxicology in Vitro raising concerns about the latest study they published on cinnamon, however due to significant misinformation spread throughout the social media, I decided to publish this comment.

First of all, it was surprising to see a vendor removing cinnamon flavors from his sales list. According to a well-known e-cigarette activist, When a juice maker that fills thousands of bottles a day does this - you should listen. My response to this is: If the juice maker who fills thousands of bottles a day knew what he was doing, he should have found out about it before any research was published. What I mean is that makers have no idea about the cytotoxicity of their products. They are doing no research, so how would they know? But it is even worse that they are making such moves (to remove cinnamon flavors) without even reading (or understanding) the research they quote.

Let me explain. The latest study by Talbots group discussed about the cytotoxicity of cinnamon flavors in e-cigarette. Interestingly however, IF SOMEONE READS THE PAPER, he will find that the researchers never used any e-cigarette. Moreover, they never produced vapor! They tested the liquids in liquid form, not in vapor. How can you support that the results have implications for e-cigarette users when no e-cigarette was used and no vapor was produced? However, there is a bigger mistake. The authors mentioned that they tested 8 refill liquids with cinnamon flavor. They mention the names of the liquids and the companies they got them from. After personally searching on the internet and communicating with some companies, I found out that 4 of the samples were concentrated flavors, not refills. The authors themselves found cinnamaldehyde (the substance giving the cinnamon flavor in the liquid) at levels that differed between samples by up to 100 times. This confirms what I found: some of their samples were concentrated flavors.

Finally, there is still another problem in their study. They tested the substance itself (cinnamaldehyde) to see how toxic it is. They found it toxic at levels 400 times lower than currently approved for food use. This is a very strange result and it is hard to explain how regulatory authorities have accepted cinnamaldehyde to be available at such high levels (of course, before the approval, several tests were performed and it was not found toxic).The authors have to explain why their findings contradict previous research.

As I mentioned above, a letter to the editor has been sent and is currently evaluated for publication. In short, the results of this study have nothing to do with e-cigarette use and are more applicable to cinnamon use in food (since they tested the liquid in liquid form and they used several concentrated samples). Besides that, the reactions from manufacturers show that, unfortunately, they cannot accept their ignorance and instead of asking an expert so that they get informed, they react in a way that produces panic to vapers, does nothing to protect consumers and only results in a game of public relations tactics. This is even more unfortunate than the mistakes in the research protocol. As a final note, let's not forget that research has shown cinnamon to have anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant and maybe anti-cancer properties...

Edited November 21, 2013 by Uma

[Compenstine]

Seems this ""Cinnamon" scare may work into the article... I becoming very suspicious.

*takes a heavy vape of Cinnamon

Edited November 21, 2013 by Compenstine

[spydre]

Thanks, Uma! Since I'm not home today, I couldn't do any more research (using my mother in law's laptop for this right now), so I'm glad to see someone dug up good information on it.

For me, it doesn't make much of a difference, because I only very, very occasionally vape cinnamon roll, (not in 2 months, even), but hubby vapes Inferno frequently. But if these studies didn't even vaporize and only tested in liquid form.

[Uma]

Thanks, Uma! Since I'm not home today, I couldn't do any more research (using my mother in law's laptop for this right now), so I'm glad to see someone dug up good information on it.

For me, it doesn't make much of a difference, because I only very, very occasionally vape cinnamon roll, (not in 2 months, even), but hubby vapes Inferno frequently. But if these studies didn't even vaporize and only tested in liquid form.

You're welcome!

Correct. Talbot (an ANTZ) ,tested non-diluted concentrated flavor. No pg. No VG. Just concentrated flavor.

Dimitri held an emergency Skype meeting with Dr. Farsalinos who has literally performed studies with vapor Flavors.

http://youtu.be/QRhFEGWPIp0

[Compenstine]

good vid thanks again Uma

[Uma]

No problem!!

As long as the cinnamon used is water based (as most of us are aware) and not oil based with cinnamondehyde(sp) we should be good to continue rotating.

Signs that a flavor might not be right for you personally:

1. Sore, dry throat even when well hydrated

2. Coughing when other Flavors don't trigger a cough. (Newbies, still need to learn the proper way for them to draw, expel, inhale, exhale, even with non flavored, so not talking about newbie cough).

3. Mouth ulcers (might be sensitivity to a flavor)

4. ?

Listen to your body, like with all things we do.

[HelloMiakoda]

Great, now cinnamon is dangerous. Bah. I don't trust a lot of what I read. Watch, I'll die of something deemed perfectly safe. I am convinced that is how I'll die. You can have two labs test the exact same thing and one will say it will kill me and the other will say its perfectly healthy.

[HelloMiakoda]

I'm having trouble hearing the video. Anybody willing to give me a transcript or at least a synopsis?

[spydre]

Great, now cinnamon is dangerous. Bah. I don't trust a lot of what I read. Watch, I'll die of something deemed perfectly safe. I am convinced that is how I'll die. You can have two labs test the exact same thing and one will say it will kill me and the other will say its perfectly healthy.

Not really. They screwed up doing the study, and some suppliers are overreacting.