B&M store

[Mrwaylon]

I went in to this b&m store to day. They sell e cigs and hookah stuff to. And wow the prices on there stuff is outrageous. For one coil they want 5 dollars. They carry halo juice for 5ml they want 10 bucks for. I couldn't believe the prices.

[Grant951]

That is ridiculous! I thought $12 for 15ml was bad (which it is) but that's godawful. They did drop their price today though to 10 for 15ml which is better and I don't mind paying the extra buck for some quality juice.

[mcquinn]

They gotsa pay the help and the overhead. Online sellers would like to charge more but there are so many vendors the profit margin is very small. Not having to pay shipping and being able to go whenever you need something should be worth something.

[Mrwaylon]

They gotsa pay the help and the overhead. Online sellers would like to charge more but there are so many vendors the profit margin is very small. Not having to pay shipping and being able to go whenever you need something should be worth something.

No that's just crazy five bucks for one coil really?. I mean they want twenty for four when I can go to another store and get a five pack for seven. And the prices for there juice is way off and you can't even sample them they say put a drop on your finger and taste it. And the biggest they sell is 15ml. And there prices for juice right now was ten dollars for 5ml and up to twenty for 15ml.

[Tam]

That seems awfully expensive -- even for a B&M. Mine carries the genuine Kangor coils in a 5-pack for $8.99. That seems reasonable considering there's no shipping costs. Their juice, however, goes for $11.99 for a 15 ml, which is too high for my liking.

[Grant951]

They gotsa pay the help and the overhead. Online sellers would like to charge more but there are so many vendors the profit margin is very small. Not having to pay shipping and being able to go whenever you need something should be worth something.

I understand that, but this b&m in particular has some absolutely ridiculous pricing. I almost have a hard time believing OP they're so high!

[spydre]

They gotsa pay the help and the overhead. Online sellers would like to charge more but there are so many vendors the profit margin is very small. Not having to pay shipping and being able to go whenever you need something should be worth something.

The only way they should be charging a fraction of that for juice is if they are selling someone else's juice. Heck, Premier sells other people's juice, and is a heck of a lot cheaper than that - cheaper even than Better Vapes on 30 ml prices, I believe. If they are selling someone else's juice, then of course, they have to recoup what they paid for it, plus the mark up, but if it's someone else's juice, why bother carrying a little 5 ml bottle?

And yeah, one of my B&M carries genuine kanger coils for $8.50 a five pack. The two others that carry genuine Kanger price them at $10 per 5 pack, and the other one carries knock offs.

[Sweatervest13]

Wow, those prices are pretty high. I do agree that a B&M store will/should have slightly higher prices, but this is really pushing it. What kind of location did they have? Super high traffic retail location (where the rent is crazy high)? Or do you think this guy was just being greedy?

In Metro Detroit we really don't have a lot of B&M stores, I have been trying to visit some local ones and there are a couple within a half hour drive for me. I stopped at one this weekend and they had high prices ($26.00 for KPT2 and same price for Anyvape Davides. $90.00 for MVP V2, $8.00 for 10ml juice, $20.00 for 30ml juice). But the juice was good and they mix it right on the spot.

I am willing to pay a little more for the ability to walk in, sample, taste, and touch products. But I only bought juice from this new B&M store ( I was about to pick up a Anyvape Davide, but the almost $10.00 mark up was too steep for me), and would probably not consider them for hardware (with was pretty limited, I should add).

[spydre]

Wow, those prices are pretty high. I do agree that a B&M store will/should have slightly higher prices, but this is really pushing it. What kind of location did they have? Super high traffic retail location (where the rent is crazy high)? Or do you think this guy was just being greedy?

In Metro Detroit we really don't have a lot of B&M stores, I have been trying to visit some local ones and there are a couple within a half hour drive for me. I stopped at one this weekend and they had high prices ($26.00 for KPT2 and same price for Anyvape Davides. $90.00 for MVP V2, $8.00 for 10ml juice, $20.00 for 30ml juice). But the juice was good and they mix it right on the spot.

I am willing to pay a little more for the ability to walk in, sample, taste, and touch products. But I only bought juice from this new B&M store ( I was about to pick up a Anyvape Davide, but the almost $10.00 mark up was too steep for me), and would probably not consider them for hardware (with was pretty limited, I should add).

That juice price - well, I was going to say okay, until I saw that it $8 for TEN ml - at our b&m that we buy juice from, it's $8 for 22 ml. $17 for 50 ml. That sounds more like the B&M out by the mall (still on mall property) that has a hefty markup because they pay $3,000 rent each month - $12 for 15 ml. I can understand that for Vapor Beast juices, as those retail on the website for $9, but the other brand retails for $7, and they are still charging $12 for a 15 ml bottle of that.

[bcartervol98]

Again, and I am going to seem redundant here, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would buy anything other than liquids (if I like them) from a B&M given the deals and relationships I have built with my online suppliers. I understand people "not knowing" but those that know and still buy things there are just throwing money away. Even at $8.99 for a pack of coils (In a pinch I understand, I just overstock myself so that pinch never arrives), is substantially higher than the $5.95 online and buying coils 8-10 packs at a time the savings are even larger.

Its just the laws of mathematics. More overhead = more profit needed to be in the black. I get that, I am in business. I compete with other businesses every day and we expect to get paid for our services but this is different. Small ticket items that all basically work the same way are much different than 40-50k automobiles when you compare being able to "touch, feel, and use" the product. I mean, take a KPT2 for instance. I bought 4 for $66.60 with $3 shipping. That's basically $70 for 4 ( $17.50 each shipped). Even at a somewhat reasonable price of $24.95 at my local B&M that I like, that is still $109.32 with tax or a difference of $40 just on those 4 tanks alone. In a state with 9.25% sales tax, my shipping is usually offset by no sales tax.

I have one local B&M that I occasionally buy a flavor from. It is $10 for 15ml but only $14 for 30ml. I do not mind paying the 30ml price as it is $1 cheaper than my favorite online supplier.

[Sweatervest13]

Again, and I am going to seem redundant here, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would buy anything other than liquids (if I like them) from a B&M given the deals and relationships I have built with my online suppliers. I understand people "not knowing" but those that know and still buy things there are just throwing money away. Even at $8.99 for a pack of coils (In a pinch I understand, I just overstock myself so that pinch never arrives), is substantially higher than the $5.95 online and buying coils 8-10 packs at a time the savings are even larger.

Its just the laws of mathematics. More overhead = more profit needed to be in the black. I get that, I am in business. I compete with other businesses every day and we expect to get paid for our services but this is different. Small ticket items that all basically work the same way are much different than 40-50k automobiles when you compare being able to "touch, feel, and use" the product. I mean, take a KPT2 for instance. I bought 4 for $66.60 with $3 shipping. That's basically $70 for 4 ( $17.50 each shipped). Even at a somewhat reasonable price of $24.95 at my local B&M that I like, that is still $109.32 with tax or a difference of $40 just on those 4 tanks alone. In a state with 9.25% sales tax, my shipping is usually offset by no sales tax.

I have one local B&M that I occasionally buy a flavor from. It is $10 for 15ml but only $14 for 30ml. I do not mind paying the 30ml price as it is $1 cheaper than my favorite online supplier.

I think a lot comes down to convenience... In your example, you bought 4 KPT's and knew that you needed 4 KPT's, so you shopped for the best deal. When I bought my first KPT2, I bought it from a B&M store. I knew I was paying a little more for it, but I could see what it came with, and the rep showed me how it worked and the difference between the mini version. I was able to take it home right then and there... To me it was a plus experience (and for that I was willing to pay the mark up charges). Now if I were going to buy 4 more, I would not go back to the B&M store, I would research to find the best price.

A lot of current and former smokers are use to buying a pack or two at a time from their local gas station/convenience store. I did not know many who would calculate how many packs they go through in a year and then purchase a years supply to drive the cost per unit down. Heck, I don't know many smokers who buy cartons. I know that I never liked it... To me it was committing to staying smoking for the at least the length of time it would take me to finish a carton. I did not like that. I would have rather paid more per pack and not have a huge commitment.

B&M stores are needed (and I would love there to be a lot more), and I have no problem with their costs being slightly more (I do not like the ones that mark up way too much). But I don't look at them as being apples to apples comparison to online vendors, I feel that both are needed and can coexist. If the government bans online e-juice sales, B&M stores are going to be very busy.

SV

[bcartervol98]

I think a lot comes down to convenience... In your example, you bought 4 KPT's and knew that you needed 4 KPT's, so you shopped for the best deal. When I bought my first KPT2, I bought it from a B&M store. I knew I was paying a little more for it, but I could see what it came with, and the rep showed me how it worked and the difference between the mini version. I was able to take it home right then and there... To me it was a plus experience (and for that I was willing to pay the mark up charges). Now if I were going to buy 4 more, I would not go back to the B&M store, I would research to find the best price.

A lot of current and former smokers are use to buying a pack or two at a time from their local gas station/convenience store. I did not know many who would calculate how many packs they go through in a year and then purchase a years supply to drive the cost per unit down. Heck, I don't know many smokers who buy cartons. I know that I never liked it... To me it was committing to staying smoking for the at least the length of time it would take me to finish a carton. I did not like that. I would have rather paid more per pack and not have a huge commitment.

B&M stores are needed (and I would love there to be a lot more), and I have no problem with their costs being slightly more (I do not like the ones that mark up way too much). But I don't look at them as being apples to apples comparison to online vendors, I feel that both are needed and can coexist. If the government bans online e-juice sales, B&M stores are going to be very busy.

SV

I agree with all this and to each their own. Personally, I bought analogs 3 or 4 cartons at a time. I hated realizing I have to stop at the store after a 13-14 hour day at work. I think it also comes down to personality type. I work a lot. When I am not at work, I prefer to decompress and relax, not shop. I do 99% of everything outside grocery shopping online. Almost 100% of the non grocery items I buy are online, most at Amazon due to not having to pay tax on my purchases, free shipping with Prime membership, and the convenience of the whole thing. I always do a ton of research before buying anything big so I am happy to do most of my shopping online, but that's just me.

I mean, I get it. I understand what you are saying. I am only expressing what is right for me. The newest B&M that opened up here is great (except hardware prices and by B&M standards I am pleased with their pricing). I am just happy I like their liquids somewhat due to a possible, although VERY improbably federal ban on online liquid sales. Thing is, online sales of hardware will never be able to be banned effectively, only the liquids. I know the B&Ms as a whole, not all but most, are hoping this happens. I take that a little personal myself, but understand their point of view to an extent. If people could order cars from GM for 10-20% less than we can sell them for, and have them delivered to their home for $2-$5, I would not be happy lol.

I get the "immediate gratification" as well of buying something and immediately using it since my business is new and pre-owned automobiles. I am just saying B&M pricing on hardware is something that will result in a low volume of hardware sales and a higher volume of liquid sales which is where the profit is anyway. I am a HUGE fan of Sweet-Vapes.com which is the online arm of a B&M in Wisconsin. I applaud their low prices on hardware and wish more B&Ms used their business model and realized the profitability of a loyal vaping customer needs to be measured over time as opposed to one visit.

[bcartervol98]

Additionally I hope no one is misinterpreting my aversion to overpriced B&M hardware as saying it is stupid to buy things from one. I do not mean it that way at all. I just started vaping for my health and to save money, and I save money every way I can and for me, that means ordering my hardware online. Its a lot like Book Stores to me. I never go to one, since Kindle came out anyway. Same for Record Stores and Music Stores since Itunes and Pandora came out.

I see these shops popping up everywhere now. A little over 6 months ago when I started vaping I complained there was no B&Ms in my area to go try liquids before buying them. The closest one was an hour and a half away. Now there are 5, 4 of them are awful (overpriced $1 per ml non USA liquids, all knock off hardware priced 3-4 times what it would be online). One called Vintage Vapors is awesome in every way except hardware prices. When I was thinking about buying an SVD to go along with my Vamo I went in there to hold one and check it out, but if I were to have bought one it would have been online. ($54 vs $99). Good thing is I can tolerate their liquids, certainly not at ECBlends and Fuzion quality, but I could do it if I had to and at $14 for 30ml pricing is right too. Its just not customizable and is all 65% PG and I no longer like that much PG. 50-50 is getting to be a bit much for me, and I prefer 65% VG now. I guess if there is a ban, they will have to offer more choices due to demand.

Edited November 4, 2013 by bcartervol98

[Sweatervest13]

Additionally I hope no one is misinterpreting my aversion to overpriced B&M hardware as saying it is stupid to buy things from one. I do not mean it that way at all. I just started vaping for my health and to save money, and I save money every way I can and for me, that means ordering my hardware online. Its a lot like Book Stores to me. I never go to one, since Kindle came out anyway. Same for Record Stores and Music Stores since Itunes and Pandora came out.

I see these shops popping up everywhere now. A little over 6 months ago when I started vaping I complained there was no B&Ms in my area to go try liquids before buying them. The closest one was an hour and a half away. Now there are 5, 4 of them are awful (overpriced $1 per ml non USA liquids, all knock off hardware priced 3-4 times what it would be online). One called Vintage Vapors is awesome in every way except hardware prices. When I was thinking about buying an SVD to go along with my Vamo I went in there to hold one and check it out, but if I were to have bought one it would have been online. ($54 vs $99). Good thing is I can tolerate their liquids, certainly not at ECBlends and Fuzion quality, but I could do it if I had to and at $14 for 30ml pricing is right too. Its just not customizable and is all 65% PG and I no longer like that much PG. 50-50 is getting to be a bit much for me, and I prefer 65% VG now. I guess if there is a ban, they will have to offer more choices due to demand.

I hear what you are saying...And for the most part agree. Further more, I would say that most folks on an online e-cig chat forum are going to be the more die hard proponents of the movement. I think we all would agree that buying all of our paper towel and toilet paper for a 10 years period in bulk would be the most cost effective... But I don't know many that do that. I think that the same goes for newcomers to vaping. They are not sure if they want to invest a couple of hundred dollars to see if it will work for them. They might start small with a cigalike, and move on to an ego style batt, then to a full mod.

I feel that if the movement takes off and you start to shift folks from analogs to e-cigs there will be lots of new vendors both online and B&M. The stores that have good business practices and can show value to their customers will weed out the ones who don't.

I am very interested to see if any big tobacco companies are looking into B&M shops?? Right now it seems that they are just interested in the disposable cigalike market.

[bcartervol98]

I hear what you are saying...And for the most part agree. Further more, I would say that most folks on an online e-cig chat forum are going to be the more die hard proponents of the movement. I think we all would agree that buying all of our paper towel and toilet paper for a 10 years period in bulk would be the most cost effective... But I don't know many that do that. I think that the same goes for newcomers to vaping. They are not sure if they want to invest a couple of hundred dollars to see if it will work for them. They might start small with a cigalike, and move on to an ego style batt, then to a full mod.

I feel that if the movement takes off and you start to shift folks from analogs to e-cigs there will be lots of new vendors both online and B&M. The stores that have good business practices and can show value to their customers will weed out the ones who don't.

I am very interested to see if any big tobacco companies are looking into B&M shops?? Right now it seems that they are just interested in the disposable cigalike market.

Hopefully Big Tobacco will stay in the cigalike market and leave the real market alone, but that is pretty wishful thinking. And you are right, B&Ms have their place. Problem is so many of them suck and are overpriced people leave thinking it is just as cheap or cheaper to continue smoking when nothing could be further from the truth. If I added up all the stuff I have from boxes and boxes of coils, a few dozen clearos and tanks, lots of different style Ego batteries, my Vamo, and all my liquids and accessories and compared what I paid online vs what I would have paid at the local stores the difference would be astounding. I am fortunate that cost was not a huge consideration to me, getting the best deal was. I guess that's the "car dealer" in me lol. I can appreciate a healthy mark up, but selling a generic Ego Twist for 200-300% of what the genuine JoyeTech version sells for online, or a Vision Spinner, or a CE4...whatever....would equate to me selling a Yukon Denali with a $62000 MSRP for around $165,000.

I personally just think all the bad B&Ms out there keep people smoking, push more people away from vaping by not knowing what they are doing so they give bad advice, and are overall bad for the vaping community. In my experience this is a majority of shops out there but with a small sample size.

As for me, when I want something I do the following.

See if Veteran Vaper has it and if not;

See if Sweet-Vapes has it and if not;

See if Discount Vapers has it and if not;

I probably do not need it lol.

[Jeffb]

I read somewhere ( it was on the interwebz so it has to be true ) that those of us involved in forums and popular mods only account for 5% of the ecig market. That leaves quite a few users that may only be using cigalikes and basic ego units and such which can be found at Walgreens, gas stations and some B&M's.

[bcartervol98]

I read somewhere ( it was on the interwebz so it has to be true ) that those of us involved in forums and popular mods only account for 5% of the ecig market. That leaves quite a few users that may only be using cigalikes and basic ego units and such which can be found at Walgreens, gas stations and some B&M's.

I never thought about it in that perspective Jeff. If they only knew..... Every local news story that pops up on Facebook I pimp the forum and tell people they should check out the forum to get the real story on what they need and for information. There is this one today:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151828067349775&comment_id=28382118&reply_comment_id=28382469&offset=0&total_comments=28&notif_t=video_reply

[Sweatervest13]

I read somewhere ( it was on the interwebz so it has to be true ) that those of us involved in forums and popular mods only account for 5% of the ecig market. That leaves quite a few users that may only be using cigalikes and basic ego units and such which can be found at Walgreens, gas stations and some B&M's.

Its like the talk radio shows. Only about 3-5% of the listeners ever call and give an opinion, but there are a lot of others listening to the opinions of the vocal minority. I would/could imagine that the forums are close to the same percentages. There has to be a need out there for the cigalike and other cheap ego style batts for all of the big tobacco companies to be putting so much money into this.

I had my first online order with Veteran Vapers. I went right off of BCarters newbie start up guide and got a nice starter kit. I ordered on a Thursday or Friday... By Sunday I stopped by my regular analog smoke shop and inquired about their reusable e-cigs, and bought a little starter kit. I did this because I was so excited to give vaping a try, I could not wait one more day to try one. It ended up being a proprietary threading that only worked with their tanks and battery's. I was able to sell it off to a friend who was interested in getting off of analogs (at a loss of course).