Why We Choose To Vape....

[Speakeasy]

Hello to all you vapers out there....

I'm a nurse who has been smoking for WAY too long. And for quite some time now I've been looking to quit smoking. It's gonna kill me if I don't.

But I have to admit that nothin' beats a smoke after a stressful day at work. And a cigarette would sure come in handy during a long, boring flight or a road trip.

Like a number of people here, I've tried several different ways to quit, and found one thing in common with all of the most popular quiting aides on the market today. The patch, the gum, inhalers, and Chantix are all forms of "nicotine replacement therapy". Doctors, pharmacuetical companies, and even the FDA agree that the best way to quit the smoking habit is to breifly replace our means of consuming nicotine, and then slowly reduce our dependency until we have effectly weaned our bodies from it. These different forms of "nicotine replacement" are much safer for us than smoking tobacco. The patch is a transdermal system of delivering nicotine through the skin. The gum is a way of comsuming nicotine orally. And although Chantix does not contain nicotine, it does contain chemicals that affect our brains in the same way in oder to trick the brain into thinking that its still getting nicotine.

The FDA is focused on stopping the terrible effects of tobacco use in our country. And the organization is determined to do whatever it takes to stop the deadly spread of it's use among our young people, as well. Thats a good thing! I'm glad that they are concerned for the safety and health of our population. For decades, the FDA has regulated manufactures and industries in order to keep us safe. I would hate to think of where we would be without the FDA. I certainly don't want my new grand child growing up to use tobacco.

The question is, do we really need another "nicotine replacement therapy"? Aren't the products on the american market today enough? Why should we endorse another means of nicotine addiction? That is what I think the FDA is trying to say to vapers. By using this product, that hasn't been studied by the FDA, are we improving our health? Or are we causing more problems for ourselves? Is it helping us to quit using tobacco? Or are we just switching our means of consumption? And by using these products, are we saying to our young people that smoking is finally safe? Will these products cause our young people to one day use tobacco in order to consume nicotine?

Let us look at the quit smoking aides we have in place right now that are approved by the FDA. These therapys have all been tested in laboratories over several years. They have all been proven to help the smoker control his/her cravings for nicotine in the hopes that the individual's willpower can keep them from using tobacco. All of these therapys have a way of delivering a safe amout of nicotine without the possiblity of overdose, if taken as prescribed. These therapys, while effectively controling nicotine addiction, have not addressed the other habit forming behaviors of smoking tobacco. They do not do anything for the feeling I get while driving to work. The behavioral need I have to do something with my hands. Almost every person who smokes will testify that there is a certain ceremony involved with smoking tobacco. A calming and relaxing feeling that acompanys the act of smoking. Tests show that smokers tend to have a higher level of concentration while smoking. And the act also has the ability to divert our attention in times of stress. I know that nothing calms me down better than a smoke break during stressful days at work. Some people might say that it's the nicotine that you need to calm your nerves, but I don't hear too many people say, "Man, I could really use some gum right now". There are also reports done by the army that show that cigarettes played a crucial part in WWII and other wars. Many a soldier who didn't smoke before combat came home with a pack of fags in his pocket. Yes, these are all examples of the feeling we get from using nicotine, but those behaviors become ingrained in us over years of smoking and are very difficult to change, even with the use of "NRTs".

After reviewing dozens of personal profiles in this forum, I have noticed one common connection between us all. 100% of the profiles I've looked at claim to be ex-smokers. Very few of us are still using tobacco, and those of us who are, are doing so much less than we used to. Vaping is continuously proving to me to be one of, if not the most effective "nicotine replacement therapys" introduced so far. Certainly the most attractive, anyway. I believe that we are on the precipus of something truly revolutionary. Our actions and our endorsment of this product could save millions of lives. It may very well be bigger than any other human rights issue to date. And I am very excited about it. But it also scares me a little. What we do and how we respond to critisism may effect future generations of americans for years to come.

I understand that the following statements my cause concern for some of our forum citizens and for many of our suppliers of this product, but I can't help but think of how beneficial this product is for quiting tobacco. And, as a responsible person, who cares about the health and safety of our communities, and our children's future, I believe that vaping should be focused on quiting not only the terrible habit of smoking tobacco, but also the weaning of nicotine dependency and the use of any nicotine products all together. The reason you choose to vape is your own. I'm not here to tell anyone that what they're doing is wrong. I believe that if you choose to vape for the rest of your life it would be a HUGE improvement to your health when compaired to tobacco products. But I also feel that nicotine is bad too. And should be considered harmful.

That being said, I feel that vaping is most likely the greatest way to stop the abuse of tobacco. I haven't heard a single report of someone claiming that vaping has caused them more harm than good, to say nothing of the effects of second-hand smoke. I have searched the web and can't find a single instance of any negative affects from vaping. The only concern than I can find, or think of, in reference to any harm caused by vaping is that of the liquid we use to refill our ecigs. Most of the liquid out there contains nicotine. Nicotine is a toxin and a stimulant. It is classified as an alkaloid. It was used as an insecticide, but because it is also extremely poisonous to man and animal in concetrated doses, it was stopped being used in this manner. Who stopped it's use as an insecticide? The FDA. These nicotine liquids can be extremely harmful if taken in large quantities. My greatest fear is that we will soon hear about a toddler who drank eliquid and died from it. Such an instance could cause this movement of ours to be outlawed.

I believe that these eliquids are what the FDA will focus it's attention on, if they haven't already. What manufactures are putting in this liquid is what will become the focus of attention. What is the nicotine content of this liquid and how do the manufactures guard against harmful ingredients? How is it being labeled? Is it being packaged in child-proof containers? These issues I think will cause our vaping communities the most greif as the popularity of this product grows. It's not the 4' tall glass water bong thats so illegal. It's what we put in it. If we encourage our suppliers to step up and help solve some of these potential problems, than we can show the FDA, and the world, that we, as concerned consumers, are not only advocates for vaping, but also aware of it's risks. The auto industry invented the seatbelt for use in cars because we, as consumers, demanded it! And our government listened, eventually making seatbelts and other safety features a requirement. There is nothing wrong with our government making safety requirements nessesary for these products, as well. I just pray that the FDA recognizes the potential this product has in saving lives, too.

[Christopher]

This is probably one of the best and most interesting posts I've read so far on the forums. I have to say I agree with not only your concerns but your point of view as well. The bottom line is, nicotine is a vice pure and simple much like alcohol and caffeine. The good lord never intend that we ingest these toxins however in one way or another we have been introcuded to nicotine and over the years have become sadly Dependant. Essentially the electronic cigarette is a pacifier (or a dummy if your in the UK) for adults, it is what we use to help overcome the every day stress called life. I find it to also be a great past time. It's extremely relaxing.

That all aside I can't agree more that safety is our number once concern. It is for many suppliers, at least the good ones anyway. Why do you think Vapor Talk was one of the first liquid suppliers in the United States to add child proof caps? Because there is a very real threat of a child getting a hold of something that looks like apple juice and smells like a grape. Unfortunately there are some real "winner" parents out there and we as suppliers have to protect their children. You said you where concerned that a child may some day get a hold of juice and drink a bottle, guess what, it's already happened. (Yes you heard correct) I won't say where and what supplier was involved because it's not needed but it's happened. As far as we know, the child is fine. Luckily.

Truth be told liquid bottles in loose form will cease to exist should electronic cigarettes stay on the market for the long run. Everyone will end up using cartomizers. 2 piece units. Why? Because it's a way to not only control the nicotine levels, but it's sealed thus preventing the cotton from falling out, which of course could be eaten by a dog, cat or child.

Quality control is another major issue that is being worked on continuously. Is PG safe to vape? Let's be honest with ourselves we are on the front line of this new invention, although PG is general recognized as safe by the FDA and is used in many products such as baby wipes, vitamins etc it's never been tested in long term vapor form inhaled by humans. Granted there was a study done on monkeys for over a year, which concluded positive effects, but we really don't know the VERY long term effects. Essentially only time will tell. The general common sense assumption is, traditional tobacco is so bad that you could probably smoke tea leaves and still be better off than smoking tobacco leaves.

I think overall this product is a real step forward in helping dependent cigarette users leave traditional tobacco. Leaving nicotine however is not the ecigs best trait. The original designer of the electronic cigarette (who was inspired after his father died of lung cancer) wanted people to quite smoking with the ecig, however the units worked SO well that people instead, just replaced the delivery form. He never intended persons to use PG over a long period of time. Right now it's up to the user to have the self control to step down. Lucky this is happening more and more often, in fact ex smokers now known as vapers are starting to become more health conscious than they ever where before.

We are still in the early phases and so long as we can get the support of government agencys and watch groups we can perfect the electronic cigarette into a true NRT. Something it isn't now. Many people on the board state "I don't want to stop vaping" to me that's the nicotine talking. I think if we could make it as easy to quite as it already is to switch delivery, we could really see some massive health improvements in society. Something I one day hope we altogether can witness.

Anyway I'm getting off course here, awesome post and some very valid points.

[Speakeasy]

Thanks Chris, for your compliment, but mostly for your response. I continue to be impressed with how you monitor your forum. It's very comforting to know that this site is being hosted by such an honest, inciteful, and caring person. You truly have your finger on the pulse of this issue. I was not aware of the protective measures you have already taken to guard our children against the possible harm that could come from eliquid. I think that consumers need to support things like this with their paitronage. I look forward to hearing about other advancements, and encourage our members to support safety measures of this product.

[Christopher]

Hey your very welcome! I feel I'm almost on the forums 24 hours a days (it's 5am in sunny California)

Actually safety is a big thing for me and one of the main reasons it's taking FOREVER to get the store up and going. Other than testing the market I wanted to make sure I could get the safest version of the product possible. We of course managed to get push to turn bottles rather than "turn and crack" which is a joke. We even added a nice warning message on the bottle. Something many supplier did not want to do. I thought, well it's important. People will understand and accept the risks. No point in lying about it.

You may have noticed that one of the only custom mods I really suggest on the forums is the VP units. Many never really stopped to wonder why, other than the obvious pretty lights and overall quality of the build, is the safety features it provides. For example for those of you that own the VP units did you know that the holes around the lights are actually there in case the battery explodes? Yup. It very unlikely that this would happen because the batteries are protect (currently the ONLY custom mod with protected batteries) so if the battery does go boom, those holes are vents to allow the pressure to release. Very cool. The button cap is also designed to blow off as well. This will leave you a little startled but safe.

Most modders think ahh no big deal, but actually someone just had a custom unit explode on them yesterday. They are ok, but I'm sure their face has had better days I pocked fun at some people in my video for worrying about the batteries but that's only because I knew of the safety features in the unit. In fact I spent almost 2 hours talking to Jeso yesterday about safety features and other things that can be done to make it EVEN safer. He's a smart and honest guy.

Thanks for the positive comments I really do have the members best interests at heart, especially after posts like the one above.

[keenan]

As for studying the long term effects of vaping, the FDA clearly spent VERY little time studying the SHORT term effects of "YAZ". The birth control device has not been out very long, and the Lawyers are ALREADY munching up the airwaves for me and my loved ones. There is one that ACTUALLY uses this line - " If you, or a loved one has died from the use of...". Wait a second, If I DIED how the hell am I gonna sue ? Trust me, those bloodsuckers would prop my rigid, sorry Irish *** up in a chair to collect. I believe we, as a vaping community, are more concerned about "safety" and quality control than ANY government entity is. Also, products like e cigs, from the gate, are in a no-win situation, from a business standpoint. If you promote it as a smoking cessation product, then essentially you're trying to sell something that EVENTUALLY you will have to to STOP selling to individuals. If you come up with a device that is SUCCESSFUL, like e cigs, you are saying " buy my product, and in a very short time, you wont need to send me any more money". I think Billy Mays just did a barrel roll in his sarcophegus.

[BirdDog]

What great posts guys. Very insightful and well written. Enjoyed reading this.

[StringDancer]

A great thread here.

Now, I'm all for safety, and feel the FDA should get off its butt and begin scientific, non-biased studies of ecigs. I'm not interested in the typical "study" paid for by corporate interests on either side of the ecig fence... I'd like to see real research NOT driven by market agendas.

Packaging can be managed, as Chris has done with the child-proof caps. But there is only so much a manufacturer can do to ensure safety when dealing with a potentially toxic product. Just because e-juice holds the potential of poisoning a person or pet does not mean it shouldn't be sold, and is no justification for keeping it off the market. Were that the case, then we shouldn't have access to many household, garage and industrial products either, which is clearly absurd and way too "nanny-state" for me.

As for nicotine itself... well, I'm on the side of personal liberty here. Adults are responsible for their choices, and if they want to smoke, it's their funeral. If vapers want to continue vaping and NOT use ecigs as a cessation path, it's their choice as well. Nicotine is often likened to caffeine in terms of negative health effects. Simply changing the delivery system for nicotine from burning leaves to something as benign (we assume) as vaping is a giant step forward in and of itself (based on all available data and vaper testimonials). Common sense tells us (well... me, anyway) that vaping is less harmful by orders of magnitude. Unless and until real data surfaces to suggest otherwise, I personally have no problem with substituting vaping for smoking and feeling pretty good about it.

Coffee drinkers, alcohol drinkers, drug users, food addicts (addicts of every stripe, for that matter) make their choices and must deal with the consequences, and I would argue that the government should have no say in those choices. Prohibition should have taught us that personal behavior can only be encouraged, not mandated and controlled by legislation (no matter how well-intended), because such hard-fisted attempts at social control simply don't work, and is counter to the concept of personal liberty and subsequent responsibility.

We are constantly being told what to do, but much less emphasis is placed on why we should do it. If but a fraction of the money spent on the so-called "war on drugs" had been spent on comprehensive, un-biased education of our youth on the science and traditional uses of various substances, on the cultural backdrop of the peoples who have used substances (I'm thinking specifically of Native American substance use and the accompanying spiritual ceremony here), we would have much less of a drug problem today. Native Americans used substances for specific reasons, at specified times, with specific ceremony and meaning infused into the practice. Such conscious and purposeful use of substances has all but disappeared. Back in the 60s and early 70s, the reasons behind why hippies used various drugs were entirely different than the what-the-hell party atmosphere we see today. There's such a thing as responsible, purposeful substance use, and then there's drug abuse. I may take some flack for that stand, but I was there, and I've seen the degrading cultural milieu surrounding the use of substances over the years first-hand. It didn't have to be that way, but the government's "do what we say but we won't educate you as to why you should do it" approach has only led to further inappropriate use of substances. Again... education is the answer, not legislation.

Perhaps that rant seems a bit off-topic, but I'm inclined to say it isn't. What is true of our dysfunctional approach to substance use is certainly true of our similarly bone-headed approach to cigarettes and tobacco use generally.

That's enough for now. I'm spent. lol

[Kmel]

Absolutely fascinating conversation.

I think overall this product is a real step forward in helping dependent cigarette users leave traditional tobacco. Leaving nicotine however is not the ecigs best trait. The original designer of the electronic cigarette (who was inspired after his father died of lung cancer) wanted people to quite smoking with the ecig, however the units worked SO well that people instead, just replaced the delivery form. He never intended persons to use PG over a long period of time. Right now it's up to the user to have the self control to step down. Lucky this is happening more and more often, in fact ex smokers now known as vapers are starting to become more health conscious than they ever where before.

...Many people on the board state "I don't want to stop vaping" to me that's the nicotine talking. I think if we could make it as easy to quite as it already is to switch delivery, we could really see some massive health improvements in society. Something I one day hope we altogether can witness....

I understand and commend you for wanting to help people make the healthiest decisions possible re getting off nicotine.

However, I was pretty bowled over by the line in your new disclaimer stating that "Nicotine Causes Cancer". I've searched high and low for any evidence that nicotine alone causes cancer and have found nothing credible to suggest that nicotine alone, apart from smoking, causes cancer. Yes, there might be trace amounts of potentially carcinogenic nitrosamines in the production of nicotine, but there's been no evidence that such a low level of nitrosamines actually causes cancer. Does Nicorette gum carry the warning label for causing cancer? I am a bit confused as to why that statement, "Nicotine Causes Cancer", is there.

Further, while we all know of nicotine's addictive properties, if it doesn't cause other negative health effects, why such eagerness to get people off it?

There are only two reasons that I can think of:

1. Nicotine addiction still "an addiction" and all addiction is "a disease";

2. Without the e-cig satisfying the nicotine craving, someone would jump back to cigarettes to satisfy that nicotine in a heartbeat.

As for nicotine addiction as "a disease", yes, that is a good model to use for a medical professional looking a treatment options. And it is a good reason for keeping the next generation from getting hooked. But, if it causes no ill effects to the physical health of the addict, then I'd say it probably ought to be pretty low on the list of addictions for people to feel a need to "cure". The best I think that we can hope for (collectively) in this generation is harm reduction. Even many anti-smoking groups have given up on seeking perfection in human behavior and have instead adopted a harm reduction strategy.

The second issue is what I think is the really tough issue. E-cigs with nicotine make it easy to quit analogs, but until the nicotine addiction is cured, the leap back to analogs from e-cigs is way too easy. We haven't broken any of the major behavioral links to smoking --still have the hand to mouth habit -- and still have the addiction to nicotine. The very thing that makes vaping nicotine an effective smoking replacement (it similarity to smoking) is the very thing that makes returning to smoking an easier leap. So ultimately, until we ultimately wean ourselves off of nicotine, we are easy marks for returning to smoking.

[keenan]

Stringdancer, that was one of the BEST, if not THE best posts Ive read since being a member here. I have read it twice now, and cant find one point I dont agree with. The governments justification for banning these products IS ridiculous, and is based on greed not need. There was a thing on Fox news today about a product coming out that helps parents "monitor" where theier teenage children are, to help them keep an eye on them. Right there is a problem. We DONT need products to do the parenting for us, we need PARENTS to take responsibility. My father knew where I was damn near all the time, and I knew the thundering hand of God was coming down if I stepped out of line. Not in an abusive way, in an authoritative way. The man LOVED me and i loved him back and I NEVER got what I didnt deserve. Im getting a little off track here, but it starts somewhere, and this is one area. The spare the rod mentality. The "It takes a village to raise a child" mentality. It doesnt take a village, it takes a parent. And we need to stop infringing on everyones rights in essence to make it easier for someone else to cope with parenthood. Flavors and bells and whistles dont make akid go astray. Non supervision does.

[Christopher]

So far this is turning into a fantastic topic and I'm going to pin this thread.

@Kmel there is absolutely zero scientific proof that nicotine alone causes cancer. None. I've looked. In fact the benefits seem to be of positive nature rather than negative. That said however California requires that stupid statement and although the state as not specifically contacted us about the use of nicotine in our liquid, it was suggest that we place the warning and hope the users are smart enough to see past the warning. I believe the warning was tied in to the use of traditional tobacco products used in apartments and business. I believe it has become outdated as it refers to cigarette use and not the use of nicotine/ecigs. However the way the law is written is applies to anything containing nicotine. I'm on the fence about removing the statement. Especially in the VT store. It's more than counterproductive.

If Vapor Talk ever builds enough capital I've actually thought about going up against the state about it. Who wants to open Pandoras box with me?

[Speakeasy]

I just have to read the countless testimonials to see that vaping has helped a lot of people feel healthier. The things people say about how much better they feel lead me to the conclusion that it's almost as good, if not as good, as quiting all together.

Is vaping nicotine as bad as smoking regular cigarettes? Not even close, in my opinion. Can it cause problems for us in some cases? Definately! For instance, a pregnant, or nursing woman should not ingest nicotine in any way whatsoever. Nicotine itself has been proven to cause many harmful effects to an unborn fetus, such as low birth weight, pulmonary, vascular, and neurological problems, and it has been linked to sudden infant dealth syndrome. Any supplier of ecigarettes should make it clear to thier customers that vaping nicotine is NOT an acceptable alternative for pregnant and nursing mothers.

Ok, So what about the rest of us. Apparently, PG has been said to contain nitrosamines, which have been linked to many types of gastro-intestinal cancers, but the jury is still out on how much of these nitrosamines can hurt us and how much is present in vaping. From what I understand, this substance is barely detectable in lab studies of PG and can be found in higher concentrations in some food we eat.

When it comes to nicotine, each brand of analog is different, but generally speaking one analog can contain between 1-3mg of nicotine. However, through the process of smoking, a person only ingests about .05-.15mg per drag, depending on the depth of drag they tend to take. Most important to understand is that the half life of nicotine is very short; only about 40 minutes. As mass produced cigarettes became popular, tobacco companies realized that packaging cigarettes in packs of 20-25 was perfect for a days worth of smoking. Just enough nicotine to keep a guy coming back each day for a fresh pack. Did you know that if you took a drug test after only 1-2hrs of abstinence, the test would not be able to detect any nicotine in your body?

A lethal dose of nicotine for an average adult man is about 60mg. But how do you get that much nicotine into your system by smoking or vaping? With it's short half life, a guy would have to do an awful lot of vaping in a very short amount of time to overdose on nicotine. And he would feel pretty terrible (nausea, vomitting, headaches, tachycardia, dyspnea, convulsions, and coma, before even getting to the death part). I mean, how many news reports do you hear about people being found dead from nicotine poisoning? I suppose if you drank a bottle of juice containing 36mg/ml you could do some serious damage, which is why it is extremely important to keep this stuff away from kids. Hell, even a small amount to a child is highly toxic, if not fatal.

I certainly don't want to make people worried so much about the amount of nicotine that they may be consuming. That was never my point. Nicotine alone has NEVER been proven to cause cancer, period. In fact, nicotine is a lot like caffeine in terms of it's actual negative effects. It is however extremely addictive, as any smoker can tell you. As I stated in my original post, the only real concern I have about nicotine is when it comes to the eliquid. I think Chris understands full well what I mean.

My point has never been to warn people about nicotine or to say that people need to eventually give up vaping. You can buy 0mg eliquids. And I'm not going to re-state what I said earlier about people who choose to continue vaping nicotine. My point is that I feel like vaping is a wonderful invention and is truly the best way to save millions of people from tobacco abuse, which kills thousands each year. I can't say that any other NTR has the ability to save as many lives as the ecigarette.

But if we as consumers, along with our suppliers, act responsibly, and educate ourselves and others on the benifits and any dangers of vaping, we stand a much better chance of seeing this product around for a long time. I would hate for negative publicity and one or two serious incidents concerning eliquid ruin it for all those that depend on this product. If labeling it as an aide to stop smoking will keep it on the shelve, than so be it. If putting it in child-proof containers (reguardless of how irresponsible some parents can be) will keep it on the shelves, than so be it. If warning people about nicotine addiction is needed to keep it on the shelves, than so be it....

[Kmel]

@Kmel there is absolutely zero scientific proof that nicotine alone causes cancer. None. I've looked. In fact the benefits seem to be of positive nature rather than negative. That said however California requires that stupid statement... I believe the warning was tied in to the use of traditional tobacco products used in apartments and business. I believe it has become outdated as it refers to cigarette use and not the use of nicotine/ecigs. However the way the law is written is applies to anything containing nicotine. I'm on the fence about removing the statement. Especially in the VT store. It's more than counterproductive.

What's so bizarre that it's almost funny, is that there are numerous articles and State funded tobacco control papersavailable online complaining that roughly "50% of smokers believe the myth that nicotine causes cancer". So instead of correcting many smokers inaccurate belief, here is California government requiring you to do something that perpetuates their ignorance!

I could understand a statement that says "Smoking causes cancer", but "Nicotine Causes Cancer"? Unbelievable.

[keenan]

So far this is turning into a fantastic topic and I'm going to pin this thread.

@Kmel there is absolutely zero scientific proof that nicotine alone causes cancer. None. I've looked. In fact the benefits seem to be of positive nature rather than negative. That said however California requires that stupid statement and although the state as not specifically contacted us about the use of nicotine in our liquid, it was suggest that we place the warning and hope the users are smart enough to see past the warning. I believe the warning was tied in to the use of traditional tobacco products used in apartments and business. I believe it has become outdated as it refers to cigarette use and not the use of nicotine/ecigs. However the way the law is written is applies to anything containing nicotine. I'm on the fence about removing the statement. Especially in the VT store. It's more than counterproductive.

If Vapor Talk ever builds enough capital I've actually thought about going up against the state about it. Who wants to open Pandoras box with me?

Dang Chris, I CANT turn down a challenge like THAT.!

[NeRo9k]

Take them down!

[Acroma]

with a fish?

[AngelCruz]

replying to these posts what will be next on this crusade of the FDA will they ban all nicotine induced products that we as americans can consume poor idaho and the potato industry ! along with the other veggies that contain nicotine WOW even russia was allowed to still have a potato someone needs to rethink this FDA takes onwership Law back to the table and get the facts before they point the finger under control even the boy who cried wolf was left alone eventually!!!!!!!!!

[TeriJo]

Nicotine raises blood pressure and is a vasco constrictor.

"Vasoconstriction is the narrowing of the blood vessels resulting from contraction of the muscular wall of the vessels, particularly the large arteries, small arterioles and veins. The process is the opposite of vasodilation, the widening of blood vessels"

Now this can be a good thing to stop hemmoraging - but as a general thing, no, it's not a good idea. However, it is certainly not Cancer, Emphysema, etc.

There is a very good article about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine.

Most of the articles I have seen don't separate nicotine from tobacco, and so confuse the issue we are attempting to deal with.

It also discusses THERAPUTIC EFFECTS of nicotine in certain situations. And cites FDA studies on it.

Now for my DISCLAIMER. I have not done a zillion hours of research on this.. I found this one article that is interesting, and says some of the same things I've seen elsewhere.

However, as most of you know, Information on the Internet is put there by PEOPLE. And PEOPLE posting information don't necessarily do THEIR research. PEOPLE have OPINIONS.. etc etc etc.

Whenever you research anything, you should never take ONE SOURCE as being the end all be all. The same can be said for any kind of research of course, but our main sources are found on the Internet.

I've known a few people to claim that "THE WIKI" is an unblemished source of info on a zillion subjects. Let me just say there isn't just one WIKIPEDIA for one thing. Many folks think anything wiki.blabla.blabla is gospel. Nope.

Secondly, information changes constantly as we learn things. If you don't believe me, just look through an encylopedia from say, 1970. Not only are countries named differently, but everything changes, including history.

There, now I've been all school marmy. I know most of you know all this. Maybe even all of you, this is a very intelligent group of people. But I am soooooo tired of hearing folks cite some website as gospel.

GOOGLE is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. LMAO I mean just listing what your pee looks like lists everything from "well hydrated" to basically "you'll die tomorrow". Scary stuff. It would be sooooooo easy to become a hypochondriac with all this at my fingertips.

There is a reason doctors have a zillion tests and spend many years in school learning all this. It's not wham bam...you have (insert long scary latin word here).

AANNNNNYway as usual I've gone crazy gabbing and stepping on the soapbox. But I think you'll find the article above interesting.

Somebody SLAP me !!!!! hehe

[Mike]

@TeriJo---SLAP!!!...just kidding. There is so much good reading on this thread. I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Some where I read about the dangers of eliquids left around for kids or pets to get into and how important it is for child proof caps and warning labels. I agree that this is a good idea and it may lessen the chance of an accidental poisoning but the only real way of avoiding this danger is not to have stupid people in possesion of nicotine juice. This is impossible to do. There's always going to be morons who leave open bottles around the house. How do you fix this? You can't ask someone if they are stupid before they order. What if you had to get a permit to possess it and if there was an incident you go to jail. This would suck but there has to be some way to allow responsibe vapers to carry nicquid and idiots to pay the price.

I choose to vape because it is a pain free way of not smoking tobbacco/chemical sticks. I found out about vaping late last year and did very little research at first. I saw it as a novelty but I also saw my cig smoking drastically reduced to the point where I questioned why I did it at all, so I stopped smoking. I used to smoke 2 packs a day sometimes. I vape much less than I used to smoke and have been using less and less nicotine. There are thousands and thousands of people just like me who should have the chance to vape and buy whatever they want along thier journey. We need to push lawmakers into makeing the right decicions.

As far as health is concerned I have my own opinions and usually keep them to myself. I know it wasn't to healthy to vape super-super high nic-liquid and get a migrain but I know it was also not healthy smoking a full pack of butts in one evening. I don't really care how good or bad vaping might be, I'm just happy not to be hooked on tobacco. I do have better sence of smell and taste and my clothes and vehicle don't stink like they used to. I breathe better and cough less or not at all so I'd have to say I've made the right choices.

[Jkimbo]

I don't think banning vaping is a good idea, most will end up back on tobacco! Some form of regulation might be in order for uniform consistency in the way products as manufactured, packaged and sold. But I don't want to see them being sold at pharmacies. I like being able to go to small shops and buying online.

I worry a lot not only about vaping but in the general direction we are heading towards. Not to sound like a kook, but I don't want a nanny state!

[StOmPeR]

As soon as I read this, I stopped reading:

The FDA is focused on stopping the terrible effects of tobacco use in our country. And the organization is determined to do whatever it takes to stop the deadly spread of it's use among our young people, as well. Thats a good thing! I'm glad that they are concerned for the safety and health of our population. For decades, the FDA has regulated manufactures and industries in order to keep us safe. I would hate to think of where we would be without the FDA. I certainly don't want my new grand child growing up to use tobacco.

I certainly don't want my kids or grand kids using tobacco either. But does that mean we as a free society should legislate tobacco out of legality like other leafs? like marijuana?

The FDA is a unconstitutional agency to begin with. Nowhere does the constitution permit the federal government authority to create such a monstrous and tyrannical arm.

The FDA is a legal version of the MOB, that's all. And for anyone to say different shows they are obviously oblivious to the history of the FDA's actions.

The current actions that the FDA was intended to perform, should, and of right out to be, given to the states to deal with. If the FDA was abolished how much taxes and debt would that save our country? hundreds of billions a year? A state operated version of the FDA would be less expensive and far less tyrannical!

The FDA is motivated by one thing, money, not the safety and health of our population. If anyone should be determined to do whatever it takes to stop the deadly spread of tobacco use, or any other substance, it should be left in the hands of friends and family. NOT A GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION! I can not stress that enough!

PLANTS of ANY kind should never be outlawed or regulated in a free society! That is NOT FREEDOM.

Alcohol kills more people in America than all other illegal drugs COMBINED, but yet alcohol is legal. Ever ask yourself why? TAXES and social acceptance.

For decades the FDA has proven that they will do whatever it takes to protect big pharma and taxes. There is far more money involved in TREATING diseases versus CURING them. the FDA's actions over the past several decades proves that!

So get off your high horse as a nurse, and realize, that if the FDA didn't exist, but state level equivalent's did in every state, we'd have less diseased people in America, and less people in your hospital to deal with.

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

As soon as I read this, I stopped reading:

I certainly don't want my kids or grand kids using tobacco either. But does that mean we as a free society should legislate tobacco out of legality like other leafs? like marijuana?

The FDA is a unconstitutional agency to begin with. Nowhere does the constitution permit the federal government authority to create such a monstrous and tyrannical arm.

The FDA is a legal version of the MOB, that's all. And for anyone to say different shows they are obviously oblivious to the history of the FDA's actions.

The current actions that the FDA was intended to perform, should, and of right out to be, given to the states to deal with. If the FDA was abolished how much taxes and debt would that save our country? hundreds of billions a year? A state operated version of the FDA would be less expensive and far less tyrannical!

The FDA is motivated by one thing, money, not the safety and health of our population. If anyone should be determined to do whatever it takes to stop the deadly spread of tobacco use, or any other substance, it should be left in the hands of friends and family. NOT A GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION! I can not stress that enough!

PLANTS of ANY kind should never be outlawed or regulated in a free society! That is NOT FREEDOM.

Alcohol kills more people in America than all other illegal drugs COMBINED, but yet alcohol is legal. Ever ask yourself why? TAXES and social acceptance.

For decades the FDA has proven that they will do whatever it takes to protect big pharma and taxes. There is far more money involved in TREATING diseases versus CURING them. the FDA's actions over the past several decades proves that!

So get off your high horse as a nurse, and realize, that if the FDA didn't exist, but state level equivalent's did in every state, we'd have less diseased people in America, and less people in your hospital to deal with.

good post, Thanks for bringing out some posts from VT's back in the days, interesting thread!

[JagSol]

I think I've said this once a long time ago, but this is what I said: I chose to vape so I could avoid the same fate that happened to my dad: he died from a smoking-induced aneurysm at the age of 46. Another factor for choosing to vape is to save some money and let my daughter know that smoking is bad in general.

[mastiffmom]

This is perhaps the most thoughtful and absorbing post I've read here. As a nurse myself I can say this, I have never treated a single person, adult or child, for nicotine poisoning but I have seen scores of smokers die. I was headed down that path myself until I discovered vaping. Addiction is not just about the drug of choice, it also involves the actions leading up to the use of the drug. I have heard addicts say they loved the feel of a torniquet or the sting of a needle. We too enjoy our rituals, the opening of the pack, the feel of an analog in our hand, the flare of the lighter, and most of all the glorious billow of smoke. Remember closing your eyes and just letting that first drag wash through and over you? E cigs come the closest to those feelings, no patch ever soothed me. I never chewed gum or took a pill during a phone conversation or crisis. We need to be careful with our juices, but how many other dangers exist in our homes that we safeguard? Medications, cleaners, the list of our daily toxins could go on and on. We need to be careful and Chris has taken an important step in keeping us aware and kids safe. If I can eliminate this slow suicide path I was heading down then I am willing to do it. I enjoy vaping as much if not more than smoking, I can feel good about this because I am not hurting myself or others. We need to address all the aspects of smoking because face it we are all addicts, and we are addicted to something legal but highly disapproved. I'm tired of being treated with the same disdain as that of a criminal. Now I am free of those glares and I can move ahead improving my health and NOT FEELING GUILTY cause I am harming no one.

[owutaqt]

Now I am free of those glares and I can move ahead improving my health and NOT FEELING GUILTY cause I am harming no one.

This right here, this is so key! I love this part about vaping more than anything else! Thanks for putting it into words.

[DerStadtschutz]

I didn't read thru even the entire first post in this thread, simply because I had to stop and look in shock and awe at one particular comment. You said you think that the FDA cares about us and is in this fight for the health of the people... This is complete BS. I'm not calling you out, suggesting that you're dumb or anything at all like that. But they certainly do not care about us. If they did, there is no conceivable reason for them to do what they've been doing(seizing shipments, spreading all kinds of lies and BS about e-cigs being dangerous or potentially dangerous). We KNOW for a fact that cigarettes are TERRIBLE for us, yet the FDA allows them to be sold. Meanwhile, here comes a much safer alternative, and what do they do? They say that because they haven't been proven completely safe(wtf is 100% safe anyway?), that they should be pulled from the market until they can be proven completely safe, despite the fact that cigarettes, in contrast, have been proven 100% NOT safe, yet they're allowed to be there. This is all about money and complaints from either the tobacco industry, the pharmaceutical industry, doctors who get kickbacks, or a combination of all three.

These are NOT marketed to kids. These are NOT nicotine-cessation devices. Despite the common belief that apparently adults don't like or deserve candy, THEY DO. These are also not drug delivery devices. What about 0 nic juice? And even WITH nicotine in the juice, if this is a drug delivery device, then so are cigarettes. So is a coffee mug. So is an aluminum can. We can be ridiculous about this and start calling everything that aids you in the ingestion, inhalation, or absorption of ANYTHING a drug delivery device, or we can just end the madness and give smokers a much healthier alternative to smoking that still allows them to get the nicotine they crave. It also allows them the option to actually quit because it addresses the hand-to-mouth action, it addresses the "smoke" aspect, and it provides lower levels of nicotine and even 0 nicotine juices. There are cigarettes with lower nicotine(or at least that's what I THINK "lights," which we can't call them anymore are), but there aren't any with ZERO nicotine. And now thanks to new legislature, if one were to try smoking lower nicotine cigarettes, it's much more confusing because we can't call them lights or mediums or whatever anymore. Gums, patches, and pills have a horrible success rate. Only the e-cigarette has a success rate higher than 20%(which is probably being incredibly generous to other methods of quitting), and it wasn't even intended as an aid for quitting. That's saying something. That's powerful. THAT is why all this crap is going on, because it is so great. The FDA sees this. The FDA knows this. Doctors know this. The pharmaceutical industry knows this, and so does big tobacco. The government wants e-cigs gone because they're losing tax money. The Pharmaceutical industry wants e-cigs gone because they're competition to the gums, patches, and pills that don't work. Big tobacco wants e-cigs gone because they're competition to cigarettes, and (some)doctors want e-cigs gone because it prevents them from getting as many dr. visits, prescribing as many drugs, and in turn, getting as many kickbacks. Basically, for every person that wants e-cigs gone, they have a financial interest in their removal from the market. It's THAT simple.

And every single thing I ever hear about the FDA points to the fact that they absolutely ARE NOT for our benefit. They don't want us to be healthy. Keeping us unhealthy is what keeps their wallets full. Same goes for doctors and pharmaceutical and insurance companies.