Lets Talk Seriously About Nicotine

[Speakeasy]

Ok, Being a relatively new member, and being new to vaping, I am of coarse concerned abouthow this change may effect my life-long addiction tonicotine. Will I end upincreasing my need or decreasing my need?How do I find the answers?How much nicotine is in a regular smoke?How much is in a drag off an ecig?How will it affect my high blood pressure?One thing I've foundin my brief researchis that there are quite a few variables. Especially when you look at whois doing the study. I've been a nurse for many years and have witnessed first hand the harm done to the body by smokingcigarettes. And, like all of you, I can't help but recognize the benefits of vaping over analogs. I just have to read the countless testimonials to see that vaping has helped a lot of people feel healthier. The things people say abouthow much better they feel leads me to the conclusion that it's almost as good, if not as good, as quiting all together. But there are still some things about vaping that we should all consider. Mainly, that most of us are still addicted tonicotine. Andnicotine does have documented negative effects on our bodies.Is vaping as bad as smoking regularcigarettes? Not even close,in my opinion. Can it cause problems for usin some cases? Definately. Forinstance, a pregnant, or nursing woman should notingestnicotine in any way.Nicotine itself has been proven to cause many harmful effects to an unborn fetus, such as low birth weight, pulmonary, vascular, and neurological problems, and it has been linked to suddeninfant dealth syndrome. Any supplier of ecigarettes should make it clear to thier customers that vapingnicotine is NOT an acceptable alternative to analogs for pregnant and nursing mothers... Ok, So what about the rest of us. Well, I'm still doing a lot of searching to find the answers I need, and would really like to see some serious replies and links to theinformation we may find. Each brand of analog can contain between 1-3mg ofnicotine, but through the process of smoking, a person onlyingests about .05-.1mg per drag. The half life ofnicotine is only about 40 minutes, whichis the reason why most packs of analogs contain 20cigarettes.One days worth, notincluding hours of sleep. Did you know that if you took a drug test after only 1-2hrs of abstanence, the test would not be able to detect anynicotine? A lethal dose ofnicotine for an average adult manis about 60mg. With it's short half life, that guy would have to do an awful lot of vapingin a very short amount of time to overdose onnicotine. And he would feel pretty terriblein the process. I suppose if you drank a bottle of juice containing 36mg/ml you could do some serious damage, whichis why itis extremely important to keep this stuff away from kids. Hell, even a small amount to a childis highly toxic, if not fatal. My opinion? We all need to be as educated as we can be about what we putinto our bodies and what we expose our youngones to. If we all act responsibly and take ownership of our actions, we can all show the world that vaping can be safe, and far more healthy than analogs. I just wish that the FDA was moreinterestedin regulating our actual welfare than they seem to be about helping out lobbyists and specialinterest groups. After all, they have the means of answering all our questions, don't they?

[keenan]

Interestingly, this has brought something to my attention about myself. OK, before I started vaping, my whole life I have NEVER been the type to worry about things like "Am I eating right", "How many calories or carbs does this have", "Am I getting enough exercise". Things like that I could really not be bothered with, cause I KNEW the answer would ultimately always be a big fat resounding "NO, you idiot, yer gonna DIE". And I had other things on my mind like "Do we have enough money for food and bills", "Is the car gonna make it another week", "Do I have enough money for cigarettes and beer". I guess I had the macho mentality going where I thought I was invincible. I ALWAYS figured, "Hell, If they sell it, I can eat it< or drink it." Then God decided to give me a polite nudge, and I had a heart attack. If youve never had a heart attack, let me tell you, theres just NO point in me explaining the pain, cause you wouldnt understand unless you've had one. Its kinda like your wife telling you about giving birth, she describes the pain, but all you hear is "Blah, blah, blah, hurt like hell, blah, blah, you sonofabitch,blah,blah." Lets just say, heart attacks friggin hurt. I wasnt too happy with God at this point, and I mustve let it show, because 2 weeks later I had another one. So I said to myself, "self, I think he means business". Being the stubborn mic that I am, I decided this time I had better listen to my wife and let her make me the healthier things I always avoided. Before i could really get that plan in motion, I had another one. This one was the most severe one. This was the one that the Doctor came into the room and gave me the look of, "Look you idiot, I have patients that are actually TAKING my advice, I really dont have time for any more of this." That kinda scared me, cause if your DR. isnt going to give you 100% because you're not giving 100%, your time is gonna run out. While in the hospital that time, I had a series of mini strokes. Again, no point in explaining. Now mind you, I was only 43 at the time. My mother died in 1967 at the age of 42.I didnt want my kids to grow up that way too. So for a little while, maybe a year, I watched out for myself a little. And I emphasize, A little. Before long, when enough time ran by and I didnt feel like I was in danger, I slipped back into my old ways. Mind you, throughout ALL of this, I NEVER gave up smoking. WASNT an option. I honestly thought the stress of trying to quit would DEFINITLY do me in. Then about a year and a half ago I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2. OK God, dont you have BIGGER fish to fry (bad metaphore intended). So for about a month or 2 I HAD to watch what I ate, and I got it under control. Now, I just took the long way around the block to get to this point - When I started vaping, and its only been about a month and a half now, I am CONSTANTLY watching what I eat, drink, try to get a little exercise ( and for me, using the scroll wheel on my mouse was exercize), just like a whole new awakening to things I NEVER would have done before. And its not because I was scared into it, or had the fear of God put in me, its because now I WANT to live better. Just getting back a little thing like lung capacity has started a domino effect and triggered something in my mind that makes me WANT to be healthier. Now, Im not running out and buying a treadmill or anything, but there IS a difference, and NOTHING the FDA or any Govt entity tells me is gonna change me back. I WILL break the law to do this if I have to. Anyway, that was quite the rant, so Ill take a break now.

[Speakeasy]

Ok, that posting was all messed up....Her's a better, more refined version..... Ok, Being a relatively new member, and being new to vaping, I am of coarse concerned abouthow this change may effect my life-long addiction tonicotine. Will I end upincreasing my need or decreasing my need?How do I find the answers?How much nicotine is in a regular smoke?How much is in a drag off an ecig?How will it affect my high blood pressure?One thing I've foundin my brief researchis that there are quite a few variables to these questions. Especially when you look at whois doing the studies. I've been a nurse for many years and have witnessed first hand the harm done to the body by smokingcigarettes. And, like all of you, I can't help but recognize the benefits of vaping over analogs. I just have to read the countless testimonials to see that vaping has helped a lot of people feel healthier. The things people say abouthow much better they feel leads me to the conclusion that it's almost as good, if not as good, as quiting all together. But there are still some things about vaping that we should all consider. Mainly, that most of us are still addicted tonicotine. Andnicotine does have documented negative effects on our bodies.Is vaping as bad as smoking regularcigarettes? Not even close,in my opinion. Can it cause problems for usin some cases? Definately! Forinstance, a pregnant, or nursing woman should notingestnicotine in any way whatsoever.Nicotine itself has been proven to cause many harmful effects to an unborn fetus, such as low birth weight, pulmonary, vascular, and neurological problems, and it has been linked to suddeninfant dealth syndrome. Any supplier of ecigarettes should make it clear to thier customers that vapingnicotine is NOT an acceptable alternative to analogs for pregnant and nursing mothers. Ok, So what about the rest of us. Well, I'm still doing a lot of searching to find the answers I need, and I would really like to see some serious replies and links to anyinformation we may find.Nicotine doesin fact produce nitrosamines, which have been linked to many types of gastro-intestinal cancers, but the juryis still out onhow much of these nitrosamines can hurt us andhow much is presentin vaping. Each brand of analogis different, but generally speakingone analog can contain between 1-3mg ofnicotine.However, through the process of smoking, a person onlyingests about .05-.15mg per drag, depending on the depth of drag they tend to take. Most important to understandis that the half life ofnicotine is very short; only about 40 minutes. As mass producedcigarettes became popular, tobacco companies realized that packagingcigarettesin packs of 20-25 was perfect for a days worth of smoking. Just enoughnicotine to keep a guy coming back each day for a fresh pack. Did you know that if you took a drug test after only 1-2hrs of abstinence, the test would not be able to detect anynicotine in your body? A lethal dose ofnicotine for an average adult manis about 60mg. Buthow do you get thatmuch nicotine into your system by smoking or vaping? With it's short half life, a guy would have to do an awful lot of vapingin a very short amount of time to overdose onnicotine. And he would feel pretty terrible (nausea, vomitting, headaches, tachycardia, dyspnea, convulsions, and coma, before even getting to the death part. I mean,how many news reports do you hear about people being found dead fromnicotine poisoning? I suppose if you drank a bottle of juice containing 36mg/ml you could do some serious damage, whichis why itis extremely important to keep this stuff away from kids. Hell, even a small amount to a childis highly toxic, if not extremely fatal. So what do I think? I think we all need to be as educated as we can be about what we putinto our bodies and what we expose our youngones to. Keepin mind at all times that a bottle of eliquid can be worse than a loaded gun around a curious toddler. If we all act responsibly and take ownership of our actions, we can all show the world that vaping can be safe, and far more healthy than analogs. I just wish that the FDA was moreinterestedin regulating our actual welfare than they seem to be about helping out lobbyists and specialinterest groups. After all, they have the means of answering all our questions, don't they?

[Speakeasy]

You know why a great many wealthy people try so hard to take good care of them selves? Cause they have a damn good reason to live!! They have the money to live a happy life!

[keenan]

You know why a great many wealthy people try so hard to take good care of them selves? Cause they have a damn good reason to live!! They have the money to live a happy life!

I dont know, Ive always told my wife, Id rather live in a tent with her and be happy, then a mansion with her and be miserable.

[lilk]

I dont know, Ive always told my wife, Id rather live in a tent with her and be happy, then a mansion with her and be miserable.

I agree with that one no

[FTJoe]

After all, they have the means of answering all our questions, don't they?

I didn't want to quote the entire piece, but left the last part, ha ha ha. I have a rant somewhere on the forums. We all know nicotine is bad, I want to quit it. Here's the plan (my plan). Vape vape vape, but down from 24mg (probably started too high), to under 10 right now. I think on our next vacation, I'll go to zero but still vaping the entire time. Once the 6-12 days has passed that I've quit the physical addiction, I'll start on the mental addiction, the really tough one. This is where people lose it, stop smoking for years, go to a party, middle of a divorce, bum a butt and BANG, addicted again. But now I need to commit to not vaping. Should I fail and still need to do it? Ooops, no nic and vaping once in a while. So sad, too bad. Best article I read from a health professional on this pointed out the act of smoking is, by definition, to breath in burning material. Most would agree that is a bad thing. Vaping what amounts to fog machine stuff while not proven to be safe, has to be safer than inhaling burning matter. That is my opinion.

So I fully intend to have my 0mg juice and an ecig on me at all times. Go to a party, have a good time, vape and not even think about it the next day because I will not be addicted to nicotine. It is the act of quitting nic, then taking a cigarette which has the addictive drug nicotine in it, that causes people to "fail". The way to not fall into that trap is to vape with 0mg.

[Speakeasy]

So I fully intend to have my 0mg juice and an ecig on me at all times. Go to a party, have a good time, vape and not even think about it the next day because I will not be addicted to nicotine. It is the act of quitting nic, then taking a cigarette which has the addictive drug nicotine in it, that causes people to "fail". The way to not fall into that trap is to vape with 0mg.

[keenan]

Also, a big part of the mental addiction falls on you HAVE to WANT to quit, or cut back. If youre doing it because people are nagging you (been there), or because everyone around you is quitting (done that ), youre NOT going to quit, because you dont WANT to. We are programmed as human beings to explore our desires, be it drinking, smoking, reading books, sex, whatever. If you dont WANT to stop reading a book, you WONT. Like me, I did NOT want to quit smoking, it was the "smoking alternative" phrase that caught me. I still get to do what I want. Im a stubborn Irishman. Its a win win situation, and I get to save face AND please everyone. Of course, thats a no no with big brother. Hes not getting his cut, so, Im back to being an outcast.

[StringDancer]

Since we're having such a fine discussion on matters of health and safety, I'm gonna reference a post I made many months ago that contains links I found to various studies on the health effects of PG. The present thread is focusing on nicotine, so this is a bit off-topic, I know... but the other thread happened months ago before Speakeasy got on board. He's clearly doing some serious research into the topic of ecigs and safety, and since he's in the medical field and looking for substantive data to crunch, his quest for the truth benefits all of us.

SE, I'm hoping the information the following thread contains might be of use to you, and also serve to inform newer members who missed the thread when it happened. There's a lot of meat there.

http://www.vaportalk...log-cigarettes/

[Speakeasy]

StringDancer, You are the MAN.....

That link is EXTREMELY informative. Thank you very much for posting/re-posting it here. I hope that any attorny that happens to support our cause now, or in the future, will have this type of ammo when he goes up against the FDA....

One thing that I would like to point out about PG,VG, and all the glychol stuff is this.

The FDA has been quoted as saying that they found traces of Dyethaline Glychol (DEG) in one cartridge sample that they've tested. This compound (according to the FDA) is apparently found in anti-freeze. Now, I don't know crap about anti-freeze, but I do know that I haven't found a single supplier yet that boasts Dyethaline Glychol as being in thier e-liquid. Whether we should be leary of pre-filled cartridges is a mystery, as well.

And because the FDA refuses to publish both thier findings and thier testing methods, pending litigation, we're expected to just believe that what they've said is truth. Hell, the media has even reported these apparant findings without even questioning either the FDAs methods or motives.

BTW, I'm not anti-FDA. I completely understand that the FDA doesn't want to endorse something that may seem attractive to young people or that may be harmful in some way. But I am FURIOUS about the tactics they're using to mis-inform our citizens about a product that has OBVIOUS health benefits over analog cigarettes!!

THANKS, BUD! GREAT LINK!!!!

[StringDancer]

You're welcome SE. I thought that thread might pique your interest.

I remember that DEG thing when the FDA "study" came out... trace amounts found in ONE cartridge out of several. This strikes me as a simple case of insufficient quality control. The Chinese are very clever, but not known for being all that fussy when manufacturing products.

While I think Johnson Creek could stand to bump up the intensity of their flavorings, one thing about them is that they ARE fussy when it comes to making juice. The FDA has inspected their facility and signed off on the sanitary aspect of it, though not on the juice itself, obviously. Juice outta China has to be a little suspect, I think.

[keenan]

Well , I MAY get into a little trouble here. I am BIG TIME anti FDA, at least inasmuch as they operate right now. I cant turn on my TV without seeing at LEAST 10 commercials a night by some lawyer who is worried about me or my loved ones that may or have not suffered serious side affects from some drug that the FDA approved as safe. May cause suicide, stomach cramps, itching, rashes, dizziness, vomiting, yada, yada, yada. And for the anti freeze they found, they found an insignificant amount in ONE sample out of all the ones they tested. They are nothing more than a puppet for big pharma. They, along with the IRS, need a complete internal cleansing

[Speakeasy]

Well , I MAY get into a little trouble here. I am BIG TIME anti FDA, at least inasmuch as they operate right now. I cant turn on my TV without seeing at LEAST 10 commercials a night by some lawyer who is worried about me or my loved ones that may or have not suffered serious side affects from some drug that the FDA approved as safe. May cause suicide, stomach cramps, itching, rashes, dizziness, vomiting, yada, yada, yada. And for the anti freeze they found, they found an insignificant amount in ONE sample out of all the ones they tested. They are nothing more than a puppet for big pharma. They, along with the IRS, need a complete internal cleansing

I hear ya, Keenan. And your right. I'm convinced that if the FDA keeps messin' with our nicotine in a dishonest way, there's gonna be a hate crime!

I guess I make statements about not being ANTI-FDA mainly because I don't want new vapers or guests to our forum getting the impression that I'm just some kinda conspiracy-theory nut job.....lol, I'll let you do that...

[Kmel]

....But there are still some things about vaping that we should all consider. Mainly, that most of us are still addicted tonicotine. And nicotine does have documented negative effects on our bodies.....

I don't know the studies that you have been looking at, but from what I have read the single worst thing about nicotine is that it is highly addictive and the second worst thing is that it does tend to reduce body weight, which is why pregnant women must not smoke or vape or risk low fetal birth weights. Yes, at very high doses nicotine can be toxic, but so can many things.

Beyond those things, scientifically, nicotine doesn't seem to have many other negative side effects. Nicotine doesn't cause cancer or heart attacks.

However, having said all of that, no one really wants to be "an addict", climbing walls if they can't vape or smoke. So there are good reasons to step down nicotine to zero, but it appears that the benefits for doing this are more psychological than purely physiological.

[keenan]

Im gonna go off on a tangent here. I think humans are genetically programmed to have addictions. I mean, when you define addiction, the variables are ENDLESS. Kind of like the definition of an alcoholic. You dont have to drink 3 kegs of vodka a night to be an alcoholic. You can have 3 SHOTS a night and be one. Its the NEED to have them I think that defines you as an alcoholic, not the quantity. I think thats a big misconception that people have, with ANY addiction. Just my opinion though. I'll bugger off now.

[Speakeasy]

I don't know the studies that you have been looking at, but from what I have read the single worst thing about nicotine is that it is highly addictive and the second worst thing is that it does tend to reduce body weight, which is why pregnant women must not smoke or vape or risk low fetal birth weights. Yes, at very high doses nicotine can be toxic, but so can many things.

Beyond those things, scientifically, nicotine doesn't seem to have many other negative side effects. Nicotine doesn't cause cancer or heart attacks.

However, having said all of that, no one really wants to be "an addict", climbing walls if they can't vape or smoke. So there are good reasons to step down nicotine to zero, but it appears that the benefits for doing this are more psychological than purely physiological.

Thank you, Kmel, for your response to this topic. I'm sure all of us are interested in how things effect us and, like I said before, its important to educate ourselves on this stuff.

I must say that I've had a difficult time finding current, up to date reports of nicotine use that isn't linked in some way to tobacco abuse. The findings I've been most interested in, and feel are the most pertinent, are those that concern Nicotine Replacement Therapies (NRTs). And I'm finding that those reports are somewhat "worded" to convince the reader that NRTs are safe, and much healthier than using tobacco. Please note that most of those studies are done by the same companies that make and profit from the NRTs.

I have to admit that some of my opinions about NRTs come from my experience as a nursing professional. I have also talked with my doctor about the ecig. In my postings I have mentioned that pregnant and nursing mothers should not use nicotine. This is not only my opinion but also the opinion of my physician. And NRTs have a warning on the box that tells moms to consult with thier doctors before using the product. NRTs, or nicotine, has been linked to sudden infant death syndrome, I'm afraid to say. Pre-mature birth, birth defects, and low birth rates can be a result as well.

Now, in my posting I wrote, "what about the rest of us"? And I wrote that I was still searching for answers on that. I haven't found very much, dear. Your absolutely correct about nicotine not being connected to cancer. I have watched all the interviews on youtube with physicians stating that nicotine, by itself, is not harmful. Even my own doctor has told me that he would much rather me use the ecig than smoke tobacco.

When I wrote about possible overdose I was trying to explain (rather poorly, I think) that it is basically IMPOSSIBLE to OD while vaping. You would have to drink a bottle of juice in order to die. And that is why I wrote about the concern I have over the eliquid getting into the hands of toddlers or very small children.

After starting this topic, I started another topic called "Why we choose to vape". I went into more detail about the safe use of nicotine there.

I really don't have a lot of concerns about nicotine, Kmel. Yes, it is extremely addictive. It is said to be more addictive than heroine. And because of the way it effects neuro-receptors in the brain, the demand for more nicotine increases over time. Which is why everyone ends up smoking more and more the longer they do it. Nicotine is primarily a stimulant. It is known to increase heart rates, and it can increase blood pressure. Because I happen to have high blood pressure this was a concern for me. But when I mentioned this to my doctor he said that the other chemicals found in tobacco are far worse for my blood pressure and that he felt that I was much safer using an NRT (like the ecig) than continuing with tobacco.

Addiction concerns are normally viewed as being bad because most addictions have some adverse effect on a person's life or well being. But if it doesn't hurt us in some way is it still bad for us? I think your statement that it's more of a psychologiacal question than a physiological one is very correct. Each person must weigh that decision on thier own. The important thing for me is knowing that I'll be able to enjoy vaping for a hell of a lot longer than I would ever be able to enjoy using tobacco....

Unless I get hit by a truck, that is....

[seaspine]

I dont think nicotine in it's self is a big player in many of the health problems associated with smoking. There are far more harmful things taken in whan smoking a cigarette such as tar and carbon monoxide that really are the big factors in causing lung cancer,COPD and heart disease. while nicotine is still a toxin vaping is a far safer way to take it in. To quote Arno from Awsome Vapor nicotine is only 1/3rd of the addiction.Most of us will likley drop our nicotine levles as time goes on, It's just that our chosen way of doing it deals with the other 2/3rds of our addiction.The nicotine levle taken in by vaping is about even of that given

by more "accepted" methods such as gum and patches,yet seems to be far more effective for many.For myself I hope to get down to 0 nic juice one day,even if I never make that goal I know I am living a far healther life by staying away from the old coffin nails.

[Kmel]

Im gonna go off on a tangent here. I think humans are genetically programmed to have addictions.

I think -- and it's also just my opinion -- that humans are genetically and psychologically programmed to have "rituals". By rituals, I mean physical and mental actions that we repeat regularly that comfort us and make us feel good.

Whether those rituals are coffee-drinking, smoking, praying, doing drugs, running everyday, cooking, etc is up to us. But there is something psychologically satisfying to doing those things every day, including all the repetitive actions that lead up to them.

It's much the same reason that vaping satisfies smoker's urges more than something like nicorette or other forms of nicotine alone. The rituals are similar between vaping and smoking.

And that's just my take on it.

[JBIRMfromPHOENIX]

I have the same concerns regarding nicotine. I really enjoyed smoking, and now I have substituted the smoking for vaping. Even with me vaping a 24mg juice and doing it quite frequent because I love vaping, I can't explain how much of a huge difference it has made with me as opposed to smoking. I feel like a million bucks compared to hackin up all that crap every morning. I am definetly using less nic now. The first 2 weeks of vaping, I detoxed from cigs hardcore. I was constantly sweating even when it was 75 degrees, which is not normal for me. I took more than one shower a day sometimes because I was sweating so much sht/toxins out. With all the detox going on, I still did not have a desire to light up. In fact, during those 2 weeks I did light up because I still had a half pack. And I only lit up twice. Both of those times I lit up, I took one drag, and put it out. I didn't like it at all. Thats when I knew for sure I didn't want or need to smoke anymore. Last week I tried to ease up on the vape to see if I would jonez for a vape like I would a cig in the past. For me it wasn't like I had to try at all. I really dont think I am getting nearly as much nic as I was before with the 1 1/5 to 2 packs a day, although I'm still tryin to figure that one out. Maybe its just me, but after trying this, I think I could go with a really low dose nic juice, and then jump to nic free pretty easy now. I'm thinking its possible to even just stop all together. But everyone is different. For now though, I like nicotine and really love vaping. So I'll go ahead and do similar to your guys plan or just straight quit when I really want to. After my experiment vaping less for a minute, I think for me it's a whole lot easier to drop the nicotine now with vaping then before with cigs. What else were we addicted to that was in cigarettes though? After my experiences so far, I sincerely believe the chemical addiction with cigarettes is more than just nicotine. I know nicotine is obviously the major and main cause/culprit for the addiction, but I don't think it was the only chemical causing the need for cigs. I'm not talking about psychological dependence either, which is a whole other thing in itself. I'm gonna skip the proof read and spell check here, so I apologize if this post has crappy grammer. Peace all, and Vape On!

--Jason--

[elem187]

Last week I tried to ease up on the vape to see if I would jonez for a vape like I would a cig in the past. For me it wasn't like I had to try at all.

I agree fully... I can go a whole day without vaping if I wanted to (and I have a few times) and not really be phased by it too much (usually I don't like to vape when I'm hung over as hell)... but when I smoked cigarettes, when extremely hung over, I hated to smoke but felt I absolutely needed it even if it made me feel worse (which it does)

But I enjoy it and have no plans to quit at this time. I enjoy the variety of flavors, vaping when I'm watching TV, movies or playing poker.

[VegasVapor]

I agree fully... I can go a whole day without vaping if I wanted to (and I have a few times) and not really be phased by it too much (usually I don't like to vape when I'm hung over as hell)... but when I smoked cigarettes, when extremely hung over, I hated to smoke but felt I absolutely needed it even if it made me feel worse (which it does)

But I enjoy it and have no plans to quit at this time. I enjoy the variety of flavors, vaping when I'm watching TV, movies or playing poker.

I have no plans to quit smoking either. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. At least it's healthier.

[Kmel]

I must say that I've had a difficult time finding current, up to date reports of nicotine use that isn't linked in some way to tobacco abuse.

I agree, it is pretty hard to find data on nicotine use that isn't connected to smoking or NRT's but there are some interesting linkshere (featured story, about 1/4 of the way down the page) from British medical sources.

[JBIRMfromPHOENIX]

I agree fully... I can go a whole day without vaping if I wanted to (and I have a few times) and not really be phased by it too much (usually I don't like to vape when I'm hung over as hell)... but when I smoked cigarettes, when extremely hung over, I hated to smoke but felt I absolutely needed it even if it made me feel worse (which it does)

Thats funny you brought up the hungover part. After a hardcore night of partying till the early hours (It's been a couple years or more since I've tied one on that bad), I would dread lighting up because I was hungover and feeling like major ***. I was one of the ones, out of my boys, that would eventually light up after raiding the pickle jar and whatever else in the fridge that I thought might help in the hangover curing process. A full night of partying like that, I'm guessing I would smoke at least 2 1/2 packs, a pack or so more than normal. I would only smoke not more than a few cigs because my lungs were cashed feeling, and I felt like major sht. As nasty as the thought of a cigarette was at that point, I still had to smoke even though I knew it would make me feel even more sick.