FDA to ban online e cigarette sales!

[ECloudVapes]

The title to this thread is more than a little mis-leading. Nowhere in the article does it even remotely suggest the FDA is set to ban online sales. In fact, the suggested proposal to ban online sales derived from e-cigarette executives as a proposition to appease the FDA and, is nothing more than just that, a proposal. The article contains absolutely no information on the FDA's position on the proposal. Regardeless, even if such regulation was inacted, the FDA would be hard pressed to enforce the regulations on foreign companies. Their authority is limited to US based companies. I think we all know who is behind the attempts to regulate vaping equipment and supplies; the tobacco industry. I personally do not believe any such ban will ever produce. What I do believe will happen is the FDA will require all liquid manufacturers to become AEMSA certified or, perhaps even create their own certification process. It's not like the gov. isn't already big enough with too much intrusion.. Right?

[Bebop]

^^THIS^^

Short and simple

[spydre]

The title to this thread is more than a little mis-leading. Nowhere in the article does it even remotely suggest the FDA is set to ban online sales. In fact, the suggested proposal to ban online sales derived from e-cigarette executives as a proposition to appease the FDA and, is nothing more than just that, a proposal. The article contains absolutely no information on the FDA's position on the proposal. Regardeless, even if such regulation was inacted, the FDA would be hard pressed to enforce the regulations on foreign companies. Their authority is limited to US based companies. I think we all know who is behind the attempts to regulate vaping equipment and supplies; the tobacco industry. I personally do not believe any such ban will ever produce. What I do believe will happen is the FDA will require all liquid manufacturers to become AEMSA certified or, perhaps even create their own certification process. It's not like the gov. isn't already big enough with too much intrusion.. Right?

And remember - this is apparently coming from the guys who have no trouble getting their products - the analog lookalikes) on store shelves in regular cigarette shops, and they make a killing THAT way, because there is no competition from what I'm coming to call "regular" vaper use machines - not the Blue,not the disposables, and certainly not the expensive sh*& Marlboro sells. Truthfully, if the faux cigarettes were sold side by side with our stuff (sorry for anyone that actually pays through the nose for the faux cigarettes), this stuff would outsell it hands down, simply because it's less expensive, at a basic level. It's not a jillion dollars a week for cartridges or replacing disposables with batteries that don't last as long as they are advertised to. I mean, if I stuck with just one flavor, the honey wood, I would be looking at $12 bucks a week, plus shipping. Or, if I stuck with the 618, we could get a 50 ml of the custom blend for about $18, but that only lasts about a week and a half if I'm only hitting it part time during the day. We're going to order to 50 ml bottles this time (can get 120 ml, it's but it's more expensive that way). The thing is, these are tobacco flavors...and while hubby is happy to vape tobacco all day and night, sometimes I have to switch it up or I start feeling like my mouth's an ashtray, you know. So that, and getting my long term equipment set up is where my money's going right now. (Oh, and ooooh, I ordered my equipment today, but I'll post about that in the bump thread.)

[ECloudVapes]

I would be looking at $12 bucks a week, plus shipping. Or, if I stuck with the 618, we could get a 50 ml of the custom blend for about $18, but that only lasts about a week and a half if I'm only hitting it part time during the day. We're going to order to 50 ml bottles this time (can get 120 ml, it's but it's more expensive that way). The thing is, these are tobacco flavors...and while hubby is happy to vape tobacco all day and night, sometimes I have to switch it up or I start feeling like my mouth's an ashtray, you know.

I too switch it up although my regular flavor is a tobacco blend (Sweet Carolina). I'm not going to ask where you are getting your liquids simply because it really doesn't matter. But, if you're spending $12 bucks a week.. Well, that's a little steep. $18 for 50ml isn't a bad price but, $20 for 60ml is even better.. Vape On!!

[spydre]

Well, it would actually be $12 every two weeks, provided I biy two at a time if the same flavor. Chi-town has it so that if you but 2 36 ml bottles of the same flavor@ the same time, the second one is free. But, unless you buy a sample pack, 36 ml is the only size you can get, though I wonder if you could get away with buying the three 20 ml bottle sample pack, having all three flavors the same flavor, no it's cheaper to go the 2 36 mls. That's why we'll probably only go through there for flavors only one of us vapes.

[spydre]

And remember - this is apparently coming from the guys who have no trouble getting their products - the analog lookalikes) on store shelves in regular cigarette shops, and they make a killing THAT way, because there is no competition from what I'm coming to call "regular" vaper use machines - not the Blue,not the disposables, and certainly not the expensive sh*& Marlboro sells. Truthfully, if the faux cigarettes were sold side by side with our stuff (sorry for anyone that actually pays through the nose for the faux cigarettes), this stuff would outsell it hands down, simply because it's less expensive, at a basic level. It's not a jillion dollars a week for cartridges or replacing disposables with batteries that don't last as long as they are advertised to. I mean, if I stuck with just one flavor, the honey wood, I would be looking at $12 bucks a week, plus shipping. Or, if I stuck with the 618, we could get a 50 ml of the custom blend for about $18, but that only lasts about a week and a half if I'm only hitting it part time during the day. We're going to order to 50 ml bottles this time (can get 120 ml, it's but it's more expensive that way). The thing is, these are tobacco flavors...and while hubby is happy to vape tobacco all day and night, sometimes I have to switch it up or I start feeling like my mouth's an ashtray, you know. So that, and getting my long term equipment set up is where my money's going right now. (Oh, and ooooh, I ordered my equipment today, but I'll post about that in the bump thread.)

Oh, and I'm sorry, I should have specified a 50 ml of 618 only lasts a week and a half because it's MOSTLY what hubby vapes.

[ECloudVapes]

Oh, and I'm sorry, I should have specified a 50 ml of 618 only lasts a week and a half because it's MOSTLY what hubby vapes.

"Wow" Is all I know to say! I keep my mod around my neck using a lanyard and am constantly hitting it. A 15ml last me a week and a half. Even when I use my 650mah with a CE5 tank I don't use nearly as much as you guys. Again, I won't ask where you are getting your liquids but, it could very well be the quality of it causing you guys (your hubby) to use so much. Low grade ingredients accompanied by improper mixture ratios is definately one of the primary determining factors when it comes to how long your liquid last. To be honest, it sorta sounds like the liquid may have some good ole fashion water just to stretch it a little. Yes, there are some that do that. It's odorless, tasteless and, you wouldn't know it if you had never had a quality liquid before....lol. Regardless of who you get your liquids from, I cannot over express how important it is to buy from someone who is AEMSA certified. Otherwise, who knows what you're vaping... After all, there are no current regulations which govern who and what can be mixed. Sad to say but, there are a LOT of people who have little to no training who are mixing liquids in their living room, basement, bedroom and even living rooms or garages. Those areas are completely unsanitary. Remember, you are enhaling these products and, aside from intrevenal, there is no faster way to the human blood stream than the lungs...It is for those reasons, among others, that I completely support the FDA requiring suppliers to be AEMSA certified. Just some food for thought there. After all, it is the reason most stop smoking.. Right? So, why take a chance that you may get something even worse than the 4000 chemicals in analogs. There are some crazies out there you know... Vape On!

[bcartervol98]

"Wow" Is all I know to say! I keep my mod around my neck using a lanyard and am constantly hitting it. A 15ml last me a week and a half. Even when I use my 650mah with a CE5 tank I don't use nearly as much as you guys. Again, I won't ask where you are getting your liquids but, it could very well be the quality of it causing you guys (your hubby) to use so much. Low grade ingredients accompanied by improper mixture ratios is definately one of the primary determining factors when it comes to how long your liquid last. To be honest, it sorta sounds like the liquid may have some good ole fashion water just to stretch it a little. Yes, there are some that do that. It's odorless, tasteless and, you wouldn't know it if you had never had a quality liquid before....lol. Regardless of who you get your liquids from, I cannot over express how important it is to buy from someone who is AEMSA certified. Otherwise, who knows what you're vaping... After all, there are no current regulations which govern who and what can be mixed. Sad to say but, there are a LOT of people who have little to no training who are mixing liquids in their living room, basement, bedroom and even living rooms or garages. Those areas are completely unsanitary. Remember, you are enhaling these products and, aside from intrevenal, there is no faster way to the human blood stream than the lungs...It is for those reasons, among others, that I completely support the FDA requiring suppliers to be AEMSA certified. Just some food for thought there. After all, it is the reason most stop smoking.. Right? So, why take a chance that you may get something even worse than the 4000 chemicals in analogs. There are some crazies out there you know... Vape On!

I keep seeing this AEMSA popping up everywhere on the forum, and there are only a few vendors on the list mostly those I and those I know have never heard of. This appears to be the entire list of members:

Charter Members

BlueMist Vaping Hot Vapes iVape / JP ventures LLC Juicy Vapor, LLC Kalamazoo Vapor Shop Mister-E-Liquid NicVape NicQuid Texas Select Vapor VaporCast General Members MADVAPES TV Labs E-lixer Two Peas in a Pod Gourmet E Liquid ECBlend Mountain Oak Vapors

At least one on this list I visited was so dirty, and the guy at the counter was dipping. YES dipping, and spitting in a cup by the counter. This was only a few feet from the back room where they mix. Who polices this? I want to know more about AEMSA before putting any credence whatsoever in their ratings.

Maybe as a supplier who doesnt appear to be on this list from the AEMSA website you can shed some light and help me understand why I should put any stake in a self-regulating agency like this one that appears to have been founded and started by a few lesser known liquid manufacturers.

[bcartervol98]

Oh, and I'm sorry, I should have specified a 50 ml of 618 only lasts a week and a half because it's MOSTLY what hubby vapes.

Holy Vaping Batman! Well, I guess if it were the only flavor you vaped. I go through about 2ml a day, the wife more like 3 or 4. Thats an average of 5 per day, and in 10 days, thats 50ml so its not that unreasonable. My wife knocked the bottom out of a 30ml bottle of ECBlends Peppermint in less than 10 days lol. And they are AEMSA certified lol.

I will probably put more stake in the AEMSA thing when more mainstream companies come on board. I do think monitoring and regulation is key when dealing with anything being ingested, but I also think with a little research one can deduce good suppliers from bad suppliers. I will not be upset at all with FDA mandates, even if the fees and such force the prices up a tad just like taxes are going to in the near future, a certification and QC process.

[Aquatroy]

The members of AEMSA are the big hitters of the industry, if you could look at the numbers, lots of Mls. This boards favorites are all small, boutique, cottage types that fall way down the list as far as production totals. That usually means better juice overall, and less money to spent on things like association memberships. I'm hoping the FDA mandates AEMSA certifications in the near future, then everyone will have to go thru the process.

[ECloudVapes]

I keep seeing this AEMSA popping up everywhere on the forum, and there are only a few vendors on the list mostly those I and those I know have never heard of. This appears to be the entire list of members:

Charter Members

BlueMist Vaping Hot Vapes iVape / JP ventures LLC Juicy Vapor, LLC Kalamazoo Vapor Shop Mister-E-Liquid NicVape NicQuid Texas Select Vapor VaporCast General Members MADVAPES TV Labs E-lixer Two Peas in a Pod Gourmet E Liquid ECBlend Mountain Oak Vapors

At least one on this list I visited was so dirty, and the guy at the counter was dipping. YES dipping, and spitting in a cup by the counter. This was only a few feet from the back room where they mix. Who polices this? I want to know more about AEMSA before putting any credence whatsoever in their ratings.

Maybe as a supplier who doesnt appear to be on this list from the AEMSA website you can shed some light and help me understand why I should put any stake in a self-regulating agency like this one that appears to have been founded and started by a few lesser known liquid manufacturers.

Being on the list is not a prerequisite to believing in the agency and their standards. Knowing about the agency and the good coming from it is. Both of which I do.

As I stated in my previous post, there are some really wicked people mixing. I have no doubt what you say about the store you visited being dirty, as well as, your other claims about them. I, for one, however, would make a point of making it public information if I ever seen what you claim to have seen. I would not protect the business by not mentioning their name. I would want everyone in the vaping world to know who it was and what I seen. The fact that a particular group is affiliated with AEMSA doesn't preclude them from not following the rules. If everyone always followed rules there would be no need for police of any type anywhere. It's no different than when a complete jerk working at the local fast food joint does what he preceives to be funny to your food. Yet, I bet you eat at one or more of the major chains. If not, you are certainly an exception to the norm. No agency can be everywhere all the time. However, most do follow the rules. Especially my supplier who's name does appear on the list you posted. I, personally, would rather take my chances on a company who is on a list as opposed to someone mixing in a basement or other unsanitary facility who is not certified. In other words, any regulation is better than none when it comes to our health. I believe most any supplier who is willing to take the time and dedication required to becoming certified is apt to follow the rules. Of course, as stated, some don't and won't. I can assure you, however, that those who don't will not keep their certification for very long. The conditions you describe are in direct violation of several of AEMSA's standards which you can read for yourself HERE. If you mix/sale liquids you may want to take a little time and familiarize yourself more with AEMSA. It's the new wave in liquids soon to be law..

[ECloudVapes]

Holy Vaping Batman! Well, I guess if it were the only flavor you vaped. I go through about 2ml a day, the wife more like 3 or 4. Thats an average of 5 per day, and in 10 days, thats 50ml so its not that unreasonable. My wife knocked the bottom out of a 30ml bottle of ECBlends Peppermint in less than 10 days lol. And they are AEMSA certified lol.

Being AEMSA certified doesn't necessarily mean you have the right mixture ratios as it doesn't govern all aspects that. It does, however, require you to use certain quality of ingredients. It's like any other regulation. Those who participate are required to use ingredients that meet a certain standard which is a good thing. However, the fact that a product meets the minimum requirements in no way means there are not better products available. This is where research on your vendor comes into play. If you are a supplier, visit their facility. Do they have a lab or do they mix in a back room somewhere in a warehouse? Know AEMSA standards before you go. If you cannot go, know what questions to ask....

5mls a day, imho, is quite a bit. Not a ridiculous amount.. but, nevertheless, quite a bit..

[bcartervol98]

Keep in mind that is 5ml between 2 people. A lot if people on here claim to vape 5-6ml per day alone. I do not see how it is possible.

And please do not mistake my questions as sarcasm or intended to belittle the AEMSA at all. As someone who runs businesses in a very highly regulated environment I understand fully the need for standards and accountability to those standards. I read theirs earlier and agree fully with them. I just do not think it needs to be assumed those on that list are the only ones adhering to rigid standards with their production. As Troy said above, I am certain there are fees some do not want to pay. Being in the automotive industry there are literally dozens of rating agencies that will certify you for a fee and you can promote the certification. I am 100% all for requirements to meet standards for liquid production and that it needs to be uniform across the industry. I guess my bigger point is until there is uniformity with regards to standards and requirement under law to meet those standards being on or not being on this list means less to me than my own research and reputation amongst the vaping community.

[ECloudVapes]

Keep in mind that is 5ml between 2 people.

Oh.. Well then, that makes a big difference. Yeah, that's not bad at all.

A lot if people on here claim to vape 5-6ml per day alone. I do not see how it is possible.

I cannot imagine using that much liquid. Of course, however, a lot of it depends on the device. Many mod users use clones. Some of which are not all that swift in my opinion. In addition, many, if not most, of the e-go kits leak. Believe it or not, leakage accounts for a great deal of liquid. The best mods are made in the Philppines. The problem is finding a trustworthy vendor there. Fortunately for me, I have lots of friends there. While we do not as of yet carry their mods, it is in the works.

And please do not mistake my questions as sarcasm or intended to belittle the AEMSA at all. As someone who runs businesses in a very highly regulated environment I understand fully the need for standards and accountability to those standards. I read theirs earlier and agree fully with them. I just do not think it needs to be assumed those on that list are the only ones adhering to rigid standards with their production. As Troy said above, I am certain there are fees some do not want to pay. Being in the automotive industry there are literally dozens of rating agencies that will certify you for a fee and you can promote the certification. I am 100% all for requirements to meet standards for liquid production and that it needs to be uniform across the industry. I guess my bigger point is until there is uniformity with regards to standards and requirement under law to meet those standards being on or not being on this list means less to me than my own research and reputation amongst the vaping community.

Not at all did I perceive your post to contain sarcasm. I do understand your skeptism completely. And, to be completely honest, I'm sure there is a little greed that plays a part in those pushing for AEMSA. It will certainly drive those who are not out of business. Regardless, unless ,and until, something better comes along, it is the best and safest way to judge your liquid supplier. And, you are absolutely correct that no assumptions can and should be made based on a list. But, let's be completely honest here. Anytime we order liquid from any supplier we make an assumption. To say otherwise would necessarily state we have no regard for our health.. For me, and me only, I would rather place my assumption on someone AESMA certified as opposed to someone who is not. I have to admit, however, much of my confidence comes from the fact that I have personally visited my supplier who has a state-of-the-art lab. Not a room in the back of their store or a basement.

[Aquatroy]

Keep in mind that is 5ml between 2 people. A lot if people on here claim to vape 5-6ml per day alone. I do not see how it is possible.

And please do not mistake my questions as sarcasm

I am 100% all for requirements to meet standards for liquid production and that it needs to be uniform across the industry. I guess my bigger point is until there is uniformity with regards to standards and requirement under law to meet those standards being on or not being on this list means less to me than my own research and reputation amongst the vaping community.

On one of my long triple job days, Starting one shift at 4a, and then doing a shift at the vape shop (heavy vaping there) ending at 830p then back to my shop to feed the fish (150+ tanks). 4.5 Mls easy some 24, some 18mg.

No your just having one of those days, your a car dealer and it's the last week of the month!

One day that "research" could kill you, depending on where you bought that stuff.

Reputation ? Sounds like someone needs bigger boots....

Edited August 26, 2013 by Aquatroy

[ECloudVapes]

On day that "research" could kill you, depending on where you bought that stuff.

You are absolutely correct. You would be better served placing your trust in a convict than some kid who just likes to produce clouds and frequents the forums bragging about the same. Most of them are vaping all for the wrong reasons. They wouldn't know a good liquid if it hit'em in the face....lol. They read a little article written by someone overseas on how to mix and suddenly they are chemist. Of course not all forum members fit that profile. But, many, if not most, do.

[bcartervol98]

Dam that last post was pretty harsh. How did we get from non AEMSA certified suppliers to convicts and stereotyping forum members? It's a big leap to say the least.

All I am saying is for me, it's too early to limit my choices to those few founding members and preclude places like sweet-Vapes, VapeDudes, Fuzion, and other popular places that have established reputations. I do agree a mandatory certification, licensing, inspections etc... are all a must and are all forthcoming.

[Aquatroy]

Sorry iif I hit the nail on the head. I have relatives in your industry, so I know how this time of the month can be, I was actually trying to give you a break, since you been kinda hard on all day.

But really think about it.....how meant DIYers do we already know! How hard is it to put up a website? How long till they want to widen their margins and start adding crap or just don't get from the start, and think its fine just to add xyz to the mix cuz its it's cheaper.

And every bottle of vapes dudes I ever tried, even the ones you gave me, I gave away...blehh but of course taste is subjective...

[ECloudVapes]

Dam that last post was pretty harsh. How did we get from non AEMSA certified suppliers to convicts and stereotyping forum members? It's a big leap to say the least.

All I am saying is for me, it's too early to limit my choices to those few founding members and preclude places like sweet-Vapes, VapeDudes, Fuzion, and other popular places that have established reputations. I do agree a mandatory certification, licensing, inspections etc... are all a must and are all forthcoming.

I certainly did not intend for my post to come across as harsh and apologize if it dd. Of course it is hard, if not impossible, to detect tone unless explitives, or other means of directness is used. I was attempting to only state a couple facts which I have discoverd over the years by participating in many forums and did not mean to stereotype. Most e-cig forum participants are young individuals who are into seeing large clouds exit their lungs and mouth. Point being, they will vape anything that produces those clouds. They then appear on the forums bragging about their liquid/hardware without thought of what is actually in the liquid. I took the part of your post referring to relying on reputation as if you took the word of those who participate in forums sharing their opinions on liquid. Perhaps I mis-understood what you actually meant. It does sometimes happen late in the day for me...

In no way am I to be understood as saying that all suppliers who are not certified in some way have bad liquid or mixing habits. All I'm saying is, I, personally, would rather trust my health to a supplier who is. Again, that is just me..

But really think about it.....how meant DIYers do we already know! How hard is it to put up a website? How long till they want to widen their margins and start adding crap or just don't get from the start, and think its fine just to add xyz to the mix cuz its it's cheaper.

BINGO! That's the whole point in a nutshell.

[bcartervol98]

End of month has nothing to do with it lol. With VapeDudes I have loved 3 flavors and hated like 30 or more. Thing is I have tried tons of others and none even come close to measuring up to those three. That's why I like VapeDudes. My wife likes ECblends best. I like sweet-Vapes ok but mainly for hardware to be honest. ECblends is AEMSA certified at least lol. I would think VapeDudes and sweet-Vapes will when it is mandatory or even to a point that it matters to the masses. As of right now they are the only three I will order from outside our vape night thing trying new stuff based on consistency and reputation.

My attitude toward this today is that I read the forum all the time. Right now, this is my thing I guess. The first time I have ever seen anything about this organization posted comes from two people who work in the industry at least part time and they are saying they will only buy from companies with this certification with a few exceptions. Then I read the list and both Nicquid and Mountain Oak Vapors are on the list and they are two of the most perfumey chemical tasting liquids I have ever tried. There are a lot of beginners here and I think at this point there are very good suppliers that are not on the list and just wanted to interject that.

As always taste is subjective.

In short regulation is good, uniformity and standards are good, but its too early to make a blanket statement that being on this list equals good and not being on it equates to convicts and bathtub labs lol.

[Aquatroy]

So how in good faith can you continually keep suggesting them when they have a 3 in 30 record?

And I'm only a lowly sales clerk...and for a whole week so far, if you've been reading....ive been on this forum longer and wher i learned most, not from you tho lol B we quit a day apart.. I stopped on 4/20!!!!but it is so easy to sell something your passionate about...it's like I'm saving lives......had this guy 37, 3 kids, high BP like me, no money to buy stinkies anymore you know the drill, after a half hour with me, he vaped out the door, three days later he comes in ...I'm thinking unhappy, nope gives me a big hug.......so cool.....

And I will never promo the store here..stop in if you want...

Edited August 26, 2013 by Aquatroy

[ECloudVapes]

Then I read the list and both Nicquid and Mountain Oak Vapors are on the list and they are two of the most perfumey chemical tasting liquids I have ever tried. There are a lot of beginners here and I think at this point there are very good suppliers that are not on the list and just wanted to interject that.

With all due respect, you seem to be confusing flavors with standards. AEMSA does not regulate flavors. Any vedor can create any type of flavor and still stay within the regulations provided the ingredients used meet certain standards. The fact that the ingredients meet certain standards doesn't mean a particular combination of ingredients will produce a good tasting liquid.

In short regulation is good, uniformity and standards are good, but its too early to make a blanket statement that being on this list equals good and not being on it equates to convicts and bathtub labs lol.

My statement using the term "convict' was used in the aspect of trust as opposed to companies who are not certified. It neither directly nor indirectly pointed to any suppliers. It addressed only the opinion of many who participate in forums. In other words, you cannot trust opinions unless those opinions are based on facts which, when dealing with opinions on e-cig forums, most often are based on little to no actual knowledge. In other words, they may "Oh this taste good.." or "that vapes like a champ" when the cold hard truth is while they may be correct about the taste and vape, they really have no clue about what is actually in the liquid...

[bcartervol98]

Because those three are so good and I have learned at this point what category I like. I don't want to come off wrong, but its nothing for me to order 15-20 bottles of different flavors on a whim. Especially at first. I thought anything I liked to eat or drink I would also like to vape. I know a lot of people that love the flavors I didn't like. That's why I sent you all those bottles in the hopes you would like what wasn't my taste. Not once have I not liked a flavor from them because it tasted nasty or unlike what it was supposed to. Never a chemical or mediciney taste like Dekang, Vaporleaf, Nicquid, Nucapure, MBV, and Mountain Oak.

You are the first person I have sent my VapeDudes leftovers that haven't sent messages saying how much they like them. I have sent a lot around to people since joining VT.

I just don't take it personal, and if I tried 30 of anything....pizzas, vegetables, fruits, sodas, whatever.....there would be some I love, some I like, abs some I can't stand. Doesn't mean they are bad, just not to my taste.

All the flavors I have tried none measure up to VapeDudes Spearmint, Candy Cane, and Strawberry Fields for my taste. For my wife she prefers ECblends Peppermint to VapeDudes Candy Cane. It's all so subjective and taste good or bad is up to the individual that is tasting it. I am completely comfortable with. I haven't tried Sweet-Vapes mint flavors because I don't see a reason to lol.

With that said I completely trust the processes and QC in place with VapeDudes, ECblends, abd Sweet-Vapes above anyone else but that's just me. They have a pretty good track record overall.

[Aquatroy]

I think the problem with the bottles you sent me was all your fault....extra flavor shots don't work in all recipes! And if ther flavors are all that, why you messing with it?

And I went to the post office today, 300mls, 40 bucks in shipping all over the country, all VT members

Edited August 26, 2013 by Aquatroy

[bcartervol98]

And like I said, if it becomes a widely accepted or mandated set of standards I am certain both of my 3 that aren't certified will become so.

Troy like you I want to help those that are starting out. Help them save their own life like I feel like I have done with my own. I came really close to investing and opening a big shop here, really big, when I first started bet felt like I lacked the knowledge to do it properly, the uncertainty of regulation scared me, and it was for me just too big of a risk. I have not closed the door to that possibility but had pretty in depth affiliate discussions with several liquid suppliers and did more research than the average vaper would I think. I am pretty anal retentive when it comes to investing money. I feel really confident those three suppliers I use personally are producing a safe quality product using all the necessary safety standards and top notch ingredients.