The Ocean

[keenan]

Chris just asked me an interesting question, and I thought Id turn it into a topic to get everyone elses opinion. Ive been commenting on NASA spending MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars, and what a waste of money it is. I grew up in the Apollo era, I was 9 when they landed on the moon, and I remember watching it. It was AWESOME. But, I think weve lost our vision with it, seeing no return for the BILLIONS weve spent ( yes, WE, tax dollars )over the past few decades. The race to the moon was in no small part just an homage to our fallen President. And while it was a clear and honorable goal, since then Ive not really understood what we are doing up there, except it looks like a really fun joy ride. Im sure there have been SOME contributions to science, but for the life of me I dont know what they are. Now, we KNOW there is no life up there within our reach right now. I dont think anyone can argue with that, and the key words there are "within our reach". My argument, for the last decade or so has been this -

We DO KNOW that there are life forms and species in the ocean we havent found yet. We KNOW they are there. We have not spent 1/100th of the money we spend at NASA looking.

If you are a scientist, or creationist, then youd probably agree that life began in the ocean. Wouldnt it follow that the answers to some pretty BIG problems, i.e. disease, creation, etc., would be found in the ocean ?

Im just saying I think we spend WAY too much on something we know is a dead end, and not enough on a promising new frontier. What do you think. I love stirring up the fires.

[Sinikal]

I agree, its weird how we turn to the skies first over whats right at our feet for exploration. Though exploring the ocean depths and what lies thousands of meters below just isnt possible yet. Once we find away to get around the pressure crush im sure we will find alot of neat things down there. People say "The ocean is too vast to explore thoroughly." Yea but the moon is also, 238,855 miles away from earth! They have found that certain sea creatures that live in coral release chemicals that can help prevent disease, Check it out

[IndyColtsfan]

I agree, its weird how we turn to the skies first over whats right at our feet for exploration. Though exploring the ocean depths and what lies thousands of meters below just isnt possible yet. Once we find away to get around the pressure crush im sure we will find alot of neat things down there. People say "The ocean is too vast to explore thoroughly." Yea but the moon is also, 238,855 miles away from earth! They have found that certain sea creatures that live in coral release chemicals that can help prevent disease, Check it out

I agree, but I think part of the reason is because space is "the great unknown" and the ocean is where we go for vacation. People have less of a desire to hear about a new species of coral and more of a desire to find out if E.T. is hiding somewhere out there.

I'm all for more exploration of what sits right at our feet, but the romance isn't there for the common man.

[kaspar11]

I understand the frustration w/Nasa. The organization is poorly managed, strife with bureaucracy, riddled with corruption, and clearly lacks focus (sounds like every gov't org huh?). It is in desperate need of an overhaul. That having been said, I wouldn't cut funding to it.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the sole purpose of Nasa is to recreate the "United Federation of Planets." Space exploration is just one aspect of their operation, arguably the least important. They are one of the driving forces in aeronautical design and safety, tops in the development and application of robotics, and instrumental in our continued understanding of chemistry both organic and inorganic. The organization is an excellent example of this country's willingness to invest in noble pursuits that benefit the global community. They are also one of the most important advocates for math and science in public education (this is their most important function IMHO).

At no point has the search for extraterrestrial life been one of its primary goals. There is a separate organization for that called SETI.

I agree that the oceans hold a lot of intrigue and deserve more scrutiny, but lets find funding for that in some other manner. As far as space exploration goes... don't forget that it is our destiny to live among the stars. No matter how well we take care of the planet, the sun will one day cease to be able to support life. I hope we've found another apartment by then.

Keenan - I have to nitpik something you said. "If you are a scientist, or creationist, then youd probably agree that life began in the ocean." A Creationist is a very specific brand of religious zealot that asserts the world (and indeed the entire universe - along with everything in it) was created instantaneously by God just a little less than 10,000 years ago. They wouldn't agree that life began in the ocean. I nitpik because I am compelled to fight the kind of ignorance Creationists attempt to spread.

[keenan]

I agree, its weird how we turn to the skies first over whats right at our feet for exploration. Though exploring the ocean depths and what lies thousands of meters below just isnt possible yet. Once we find away to get around the pressure crush im sure we will find alot of neat things down there. People say "The ocean is too vast to explore thoroughly." Yea but the moon is also, 238,855 miles away from earth! They have found that certain sea creatures that live in coral release chemicals that can help prevent disease, Check it out

The Ocean is indeed vast, but I cant help but wonder, if we invested the last 40 years since the moon landing into exploring the ocean, where would we be today ? And if we start today, were will we be in the NEXT 40 years? I think I can safely answer that if we spend the next 40 years blasting off into earths orbit like we have, we'll be right there, in earths orbit. Think about it, the last 9 or 10 Space Shuttle trips were highlighted by them taking a toy from a disney movie, a treadmill named Colbert, and a couple of astronauts who stayed up longer than most. Is THAT worth $50 million a shot ? Even the Russians have resorted to charging for people to go up with them. At least theyre trying to recoup some losses. But we cant do that, because if someone went up and got the space sniffles, theyd call 1-800-Screw Me and sue for a bazillion dollars.

[keenan]

I understand the frustration w/Nasa. The organization is poorly managed, strife with bureaucracy, riddled with corruption, and clearly lacks focus (sounds like every gov't org huh?). It is in desperate need of an overhaul. That having been said, I wouldn't cut funding to it.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the sole purpose of Nasa is to recreate the "United Federation of Planets." Space exploration is just one aspect of their operation, arguably the least important. They are one of the driving forces in aeronautical design and safety, tops in the development and application of robotics, and instrumental in our continued understanding of chemistry both organic and inorganic. The organization is an excellent example of this country's willingness to invest in noble pursuits that benefit the global community. They are also one of the most important advocates for math and science in public education (this is their most important function IMHO).

At no point has the search for extraterrestrial life been one of its primary goals. There is a separate organization for that called SETI.

I agree that the oceans hold a lot of intrigue and deserve more scrutiny, but lets find funding for that in some other manner. As far as space exploration goes... don't forget that it is our destiny to live among the stars. No matter how well we take care of the planet, the sun will one day cease to be able to support life. I hope we've found another apartment by then.

Keenan - I have to nitpik something you said. "If you are a scientist, or creationist, then youd probably agree that life began in the ocean." A Creationist is a very specific brand of religious zealot that asserts the world (and indeed the entire universe - along with everything in it) was created instantaneously by God just a little less than 10,000 years ago. They wouldn't agree that life began in the ocean. I nitpik because I am compelled to fight the kind of ignorance Creationists attempt to spread.

I stand corrected ! My bad. Thanks for pointing that out, I always thought of it in the general definition, as in life was created over time on earth. I guess Im having a brain fart, what would that be.

[elem187]

I see the benefit in space travel, nothing that will benefit us today but will be important in the future.

For instance we can start now in building self sustaining space vehicles (in other words, creates its own energy, oxygen, food, etc) to handle longer and longer space journeys.

and like you said there is other species out there in the cosmos, the work needs to start now to learn as much as we can about space, the planets and what resources we can harvest... for instance is there is water on the moon we can use it to split the oxygen out of the molecule for breathing and the hydrogen for a fuel source and using the moon as a launching pad to other planets such as venus or mars.

as for the tax dollar problem I agree, NASA needs to become privatized and build their own profit based system instead of leeching off of tax payers... I'm sure they could charge companies and countries that need tests done in space by offering a service to get them into orbit to conduct whatever business they need for a small charge.

But instead the government going to the other route... pay money to the russians to do our space flights for us.

besides, NASA did develop memory foam :P its a benefit to my back.

[Gazoo]

here is my thought we spend so much money stupidly in this country why not spend that money on cancer research or autism or rebuilding our country as a whole. stop looking outside and repairing inside. stop trying to feed african children and feed american kids. become strong and self sustaining again. Then look around.

just my 2 cents again

[jmhester]

As a former NASA engineer, I do have a unique perspective on the organization. Like some of you, I grew up idolizing the Mercury crew and the ones that followed. Imagine my disappointment when I went to work there and found that the technology in everyday use wasn't even up to par with a small business. The big funding, believe it or not, stopped in the 60's and unfortunately, so did NASA. Everything is antiquated including the space vehicles. All the new rockets are built by contractors and not NASA. The space shuttle is essentially an 82 model junker that I wouldn't get in on a dare. It's pathetic!

Space exploration is expense. REALLY expensive. And it's all run by contractors now. The number of actual NASA employees is very small. There is so much red tape, I couldn't even buy a $30 software package with out damn near congressional approval! That's why NASA has turned to the private sector. Companies that are run by young entrepenuers who know how to make a buck and do this stuff on the cheap. I was there when Spaceship 1 became the first private manned vehicle in space and the feelings were 50/50 on whether it was cool or not. Me, I think it was really cool!

NASA use to be our breeding ground for new technology. Most of the stuff we had technology-wise, came from the Apollo program: microchips, NICAD batteries, Tang :P

My feelings are that we can use that same space technology to explore the oceans. We don't have the science to explore space yet. We need a unified field theory so we can break the pull of gravity and some way to get close to light speed. We just don't have the science yet. But we do have the science to explore the oceans. My feelings, pull the plug, fix our problems and work on getting the science where it needs to be. And see what the heck is right here on earth with us!

[BirdDog]

As a former NASA engineer, I do have a unique perspective on the organization. Like some of you, I grew up idolizing the Mercury crew and the ones that followed. Imagine my disappointment when I went to work there and found that the technology in everyday use wasn't even up to par with a small business. The big funding, believe it or not, stopped in the 60's and unfortunately, so did NASA. Everything is antiquated including the space vehicles. All the new rockets are built by contractors and not NASA. The space shuttle is essentially an 82 model junker that I wouldn't get in on a dare. It's pathetic!

Space exploration is expense. REALLY expensive. And it's all run by contractors now. The number of actual NASA employees is very small. There is so much red tape, I couldn't even buy a $30 software package with out damn near congressional approval! That's why NASA has turned to the private sector. Companies that are run by young entrepenuers who know how to make a buck and do this stuff on the cheap. I was there when Spaceship 1 became the first private manned vehicle in space and the feelings were 50/50 on whether it was cool or not. Me, I think it was really cool!

NASA use to be our breeding ground for new technology. Most of the stuff we had technology-wise, came from the Apollo program: microchips, NICAD batteries, Tang :P

My feelings are that we can use that same space technology to explore the oceans. We don't have the science to explore space yet. We need a unified field theory so we can break the pull of gravity and some way to get close to light speed. We just don't have the science yet. But we do have the science to explore the oceans. My feelings, pull the plug, fix our problems and work on getting the science where it needs to be. And see what the heck is right here on earth with us!

I feel the same way. I always wondered why we didn't run programs for both space and ocean exploration. It just makes sense, the technologies seem to be very similar. Space is really the only place that no country has laid claim to. It is sad how we have allowed countries to lay claim to certain sections of the ocean.