Over Discharge and Mechanical Mods

[ArnieH]

So I have a metal tube mod which I like and it accepts an 18650 (or possibly two 18350's stacked, though I am not gonna try it!).

Of course with a purely mechanical mod, the only way you can tell if your over discharging a batt is by vapor output I guess.

I have good quality Orbtronic 2900 mAh protected batteries and also use a vapesafe fuse in the mod.

2900 mAh batts last nice and long. But I didn't notice a reduction in vapor when my battery got low, instead the vapor production just ceased. I don't think either the vapesafe fuse or the protection circuit in the battery were tripped.

Taking it out and testing it with a multimeter gave a reading of 3.09 volts. I charged it back up again and all is well. My question is should I be concerned about possibly shortening the life of the batt? Should I throw out my tube mod?

[Uma]

3.0 is pretty low. That's weird that your mod didn't reduce in oomph as the battery lost it's power. That's one of the things that's great about the Mechanical mod, is that we feel the oomph lessening as the battery gets used up. By the time it hits 3.8 volts, we are pulling them out and replacing with a few hours off the charger 4.1volt battery. At the worst, we'll vape it to 3.3v but it's so wispy we can't stand it.

Most of us use the IMR batteries, they are high drain, high amp batteries.

Some of us also use the Resettable Safety Fuses... or a Kick.

The Kick is a variable watt chip that lets us vape at our preferred wattage until the battery no longer holds enough charge to power the amps, and it will not vape until we change our battery.

I use the AW-IMR high drain batteries and really like them. For my 26650 mod, I use the MNKE IMR batteries, and they rock.

Genuine MNKE IMR 26650 3500mAh 3.7v

Maximum Continuous Discharging Current 20 A

Maximum Instantaneous Discharging Current 60 A

Maximum Continuous Charging Current 6.5 A

Maximum Rated Discharging Current 30 A

Nominal Voltage 3.8 V

Maximum Charge Voltage 4.2±0.05 V

Yours is a new to me problem. I've never yet heard of a battery and a mechanical mod that can handle full power until it's drained that low. That is not good at all. You need to switch something up. I'm not familiar with your orbotronic batteries, and after reading this, I'm not sure I'd want to be! The brand might be good, but your particular battery is not. I would toss it safely and acquire a new one.

What is your mod?

Summary: I would never discharge a battery lower than 3.3v

Edited July 18, 2013 by Uma

[ArnieH]

Thanks for the reply Ulma. I had gathered from what I have read that you can use either IMR (so called safe chemistry batteries) or protected Cells in a 3.7v mechanical metal tube mod. I personally feel better using a high quality protected cell (and Orbtronic batteries seem to be rebranded panasonic cells of high quality). Check out this battery test link for more info: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html.

Now I also have a Vamo v2, which is a regulated device that already includes safety features, so it seems IMR high drain batteries are the ones recommened by vapers for these types of devices (though my protected battery also works in it, but I don't know about cranking up the power with it). I have some 2200 mAh 18650 Panasonic Hybrid IMR batteries that I use with it and some effest when in shorty mode.

Here's a link to the mod I purchased:

http://www.mtnvapor.com/Mountain-Vaporizer-18650-Battery-Tube-MVBT.htm

It is important to note that on the site, the vendor warns about the use of Unprotected batteries in this particular mod. Though they do not say anything about IMR batteries.

Overall, the mod is very sturdy and very simple with three vent holes at the bottom (though slots or holes along the shaft might be a better safety feature).

With the combination of a high quality protected battery and the added safety of a vapesafe fuse (which could be used in anything reall), I don't think I am in any trouble.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the battery as voltage is stable and is holding a charge.

Yes, I heard AW was a good brand, but also heard Panasonic was not too shabby either.

I have stayed clear of the trustfire and ultrafire batteries.

Edited July 18, 2013 by ArnieH

[Love2VapeDaily]

Slightly off the main topic here but I can tell when my twist is close to dead, vapor production is severely diminished.

[Uma]

Ah, I didn't catch that enough for it to sink in. Your safety fuse and your protected battery are probably canceling each other out. You don't need the added safety fuse with a protected battery. I would remove the fuse, the battery is already protected.

[mcquinn]

I use protected 14500's and I just vape them until they shut down.Doesn't seem to affect battery life.

[ArnieH]

Ah, I didn't catch that enough for it to sink in. Your safety fuse and your protected battery are probably canceling each other out. You don't need the added safety fuse with a protected battery. I would remove the fuse, the battery is already protected.

Thanks for the reply. I'm afraid it's not quite sinking in for me either. But your right, I don't really need to use the safety fuse with a "good quality" protected battery. However I don't think anything is canceling anything else out, The battery, mod, and fuse are working fine together. The fuse just gives you an extra layer of security. Note: the protection circuits on these batteries have been known to fail and this is particularly true of the cheaper, lower quality cells ((this is confirmed and noted in the link I shared previously), So I feel better with the fuse in there.

That being said, I'm no expert on batteries or circuits. So if I am misunderstanding you, just let me know. Thanks again for your help.

Edited July 19, 2013 by ArnieH

[Uma]

I'm no expert either. I will share what little I have learned though, if it's okay. (even if it's not ok lol).

The Panasonics and eFests are good batteries, yes. I have a few eFests. I still prefer the AW-IMR's from RTDvapes. I've heard good things about the Panasonics, but have never tried them. I wouldn't know an Orbotronic from an OrtoSonic, , I have much to learn.

I prefer the AW-IMR so far, combined with a ReSettable Fuse. Why? Because the IMR high drain, high amp batteries have Safe Chemistry. When used with a REsettAble Fuse, they become even safer. The IMR is high drain, can handle high amps and volts, and doesn't explode (usually) when it fails. But, of course, it can get hot enough to melt and catch things around it on fire. There is a video or two on youtube that shows the various batteries being put their fail tests.

The Protected batteries are not high drain and are not safe Chemistry, but instead are a different ballgame. The Protected batteries have a Safety Fuse built right in, which is why they are longer. They fail differently, because it is not a Safe Chemistry battery.

Either one should be good, as long as it is not a clone. A lot of batteries (either type, imr or protected) are ReWrapped clones, made to look like the real thing. Very sad. But, as long as you trust your vendor, you should be good to go. Trustfire was one of the first to be cloned and reWapped. But they all are subject to it now.

Draining & charging the battery. All I know, is, Rechargeable batteries should be metered before and after they go on/off the charger. The Charger's that recommended are the Smart chargers, like iCore InTelli Charger and others. Never leave them on the charger when you're not there to watch for any possible mishaps. There are even protective foil envelopes to set them in while charging, or some people charge them in a surrounding of fire bricks, just to be on the safest side of safe. Charging should always be done in a safe manner. (doh lol). And a fresh off the charger battery should NOT be used. They need to sit for at least an hour before using, preferably more.

The battery should never be overcharged or drained too far. If the battery charges over 4.2volts, something is wrong and the chemistry of the battery is harmed. If it is overly Drained, the chemistry of the battery has changed and is no longer safe. Either one. Usually the Over-Drained is say 3.1. (you have to read YOUR batteries specs).

Most of our batteries lose oomph at 3.8 and then gradually deplete until 3.3volts. 3.3 is when they definitely go on the charger. Many like to change out the battery at 3.8 and put them on the charger at 3.8-ish.

3.0 volts is SCAREY business!! I would consider it a Tosser. 4.3 volts is a tosser. Anything above or below the recommended volts is a tosser.

Using a Fuse with a Protected battery that already has a fuse? It's counter-productive. One fuse is built in with exacting sensitivities. The other fuse is a general fuse.

Which raises some questions.

1. The Protected battery is long... adding a Fuse uses even more space... Which mod are you using that has so much room? Usually the mods are designed to fit one style of battery, which the Vendor will recommend using, because, well, the mod was designed around that battery.

2. If you don't trust the safety fuse that is built into your Protected battery, why haven't you switched over to a Safer Chemistry battery from a respected Safe Chemistry Battery vendor?

I'm not arguing, I'm trying to understand your line of "expertise".

Do you have links to resources that encourage you to use a 3.0 drained battery? Doubling up your fuses?

I can find a lot of threads that counter what you are promoting here. But maybe I just don't quite understand what you are promoting.

[Uma]

To be honest, I toss mine if they go below 3.2... I might be paranoid, I don't remember.

[ArnieH]

Thanks for your reply again Ulma. I spot on agree with you on many of the things regarding battery safety, most of the info I was already aware of, but it nice to meet someone with your expertise.

Regarding the mod that I have, yeah it is quite roomy in there I guess. Although I must admit with the protected battery and the fuse, the bottom cap does not fully screw on. Not totally, but almost! Not really a concern.

I'm using the battery type the vendor recommended, so what can I say?

As far as I see it, the fuse being in there is not doing any harm and it is not affecting conductivity. Resettable fuses are great, mine is just a one time thing from what I understand. It's not that I don't trust the battery, it is just Ya Never know. Better to safe than to be sorry. And if the PCB circuit in the battery SHOULD fail, I have the fuse between my spring and battery so it may prevent damage to the mod.,

The battery did read 3.09v, but as I say, it charged back up fine and seems to be holding a charge. Am I gonna toss it, Nah! It was kinda expensive. Not yet anyway. But if I notice anything funny I will certainly do so.

One thing I do want to know, is this: My protected battery also works in my Vamo which is from what I gather meant to use IMR high drain batteries. Now if I did use the protected battery with the Vamo, it would be probably best to keep the power on low. Do you know what would happen if I cranked the wattage or voltage up? Would it trip the PCB circuit in the batt? Would it render the battery useless? The Vamo has built in protection, so don't think anything catastrophic would happen,

Edited July 19, 2013 by ArnieH

[Rixter]

Here's what I use...notice the Lowest Discharge Voltage & Max. continuous discharge rate:

AW IMR 18650 2000mAh (Red)



Official specifications:

• Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
• Capacity : 2000mAH
• Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
• Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 2A )
• Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
• Max. continuous discharge rate : 10A
• Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius

You'll notice low vapor production long before you get to 2.5v, and I'm pretty sure that nobody will disagree with me that AW are some of the most reliable batteries on the planet.

I stopped using protected batteries (ICRs) in favor of IMRs because I noticed a substantial difference in performance in side by side comparisons.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Rixter

[Uma]

You never did mention what Mod you have.

The 2 fuses won't cancel each other, that was a wrong expression I used. What does happen, is the weakest fuse will pop, which breaks the circuit. It still acts like you only had the one fuse. You have a fuse inside your protected battery and a fuse added outside the battery, and they are now considered an inline circuit, if I learned this correctly. I am no engineer or battery expert, and this would need to be confirmed by someone who is.

The weakest fuse will pop first.

Extra fuses aren't needed, but if you need it for your own piece of mind, then you need it.

[Uma]

One thing I do want to know, is this: My protected battery also works in my Vamo which is from what I gather meant to use IMR high drain batteries. Now if I did use the protected battery with the Vamo, it would be probably best to keep the power on low. Do you know what would happen if I cranked the wattage or voltage up? Would it trip the PCB circuit in the batt? Would it render the battery useless? The Vamo has built in protection, so don't think anything catastrophic would happen,

The Protected battery does not have the amps needed for the pull. Correct.

[ArnieH]

You never did mention what Mod you have.

Uh if your talking about the mechanical metal tube mod, I could have sworn I linked it already, but here tis again:

http://www.mtnvapor.com/Mountain-Vaporizer-18650-Battery-Tube-MVBT.htm

And thanks for taking the time to answer my noobish questions. I say if it makes ya feel safe and is not causing any harm, why not. While there is always the potential for disaster with these batteries (regardless of the chemistry), and long as you get educated about them and their proper usage and excerise due dilligence, the technology we have today is for the most part pretty safe. Thermal runaway (which is what I think they call it), is pretty much a rare event. Though it does happen.So be safe, but don't fret too much.

The opinion of the vets over at ECF, where I posed the same question, was that my over-discharge of the battery likely did no real harm, and at most, may have shortened its useful life a bit.

Edited July 20, 2013 by ArnieH

[Uma]

oops, make that "peace of mind" lol.

You probably did note it earlier, but I must have missed it. I'll need to take some time and reread. (always a good idea).

Good that they recommend a Protected Battery!! Because it doesn't have circuits or fuses, you'll need to bring your own fuse or circuit....

You brought a Protected Battery plus a fuse. You are having problems with over-draining. This issue, the main concern of your opening post, is still remaining. Like I mentioned, it might be a smart move to remove that extra fuse. Your Mod does not close completely, which means the current is broken. Like anything electronic, we need to keep the circuits/currents clean, to prevent surges and mishaps,

There are several other ways to achieve a Protected Battery. Buy a premade one, like you did. Which is the best for beginners to do.

OR:

1. Buy a Kick, which controls the wattage of your Mod with Battery. This Kick works only with the IMR high drain, Safe Chemistry batteries, discussed several times throughout the thread. You are protected in 2 ways now. One: Your battery is a Safe Chemistry, plus it can handle the Amps. Two. The Kick has it's own fuse/circuit breaker that will shut down the mod when the battery level is too low for the Amperage draw.

With this combo, the Kick and the AW-IMR battery, your vape will be consistent until the last few puffs and then it won't work anymore until you change your battery. This, I believe, is the safest way to go.

2. An AW-IMR with either a shortstop fuse or a Resettable fuse. The fuse will pop when it is overly amped.

Just because your meter reads 3.0 when it's not in use, does in no way mean that it is 3.0 when IN use. Please keep this in mind. We never want to drain our batteries below the recommended limit. The voltage drops while we are vaping is never the same! It changes with our setups... the resistance of our atomizers, the clean factor of our threads, the unity in current. Having a partially open mod is changing your conductivity and results. Perhaps this is why it is overly discharging? I don't know.

You need to do what you need to do. But, you also need to assess what is going on with what you are doing and needing to do. It might be counter-productive.

I saw your threads at ECF, asking the same questions. I haven't returned to see all the replies yet, but to date since my last read, not one has addressed your main concern... WHY is your Battery over draining without changing your vapor. Why is the battery draining so low??

I will try to round up some battery/mod savvy people to help explain to you what is happening when:

1. Your mod does not have thoroughly closed current... you can not tighten your endcap all the way.

2. Two or more fuses in the same mod

3. Battery safety draining levels.

4. I forgot. They'll just have to jot it down as they read the thread lol.

edited to replace circuit here and there with the word current.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Uma

[ArnieH]

Thank you Ulma, you are most kind. I appreciate your concern. As vapers, I think we ought to be sticking together and looking out for one another, especially when it comes to safety issues.

I want to clarify, that although it seemed to me that vapor production suddenly ceased, it may indeed have been trailing off, I just wasn't paying attention because I was so busy enjoying my quad chocolate blend (I really did vape the hell outta it!). I was also occupied on the computer.

But I have pretty much put it behind me now. And am ready to move on. I will be monitoring the battery and vapor output in the future. I guess with a purely mechanical mod, that is the only way to prevent over discharge (I don't think any external fuse or onboard battery protection circuit kicks in at exaclty 3.2 volts, the threshold for my battery I believe is 2.75v before it trips.

The good thing about those vapesafe fuses is they can also be used whilst charging your battery to prevent damage to the battery or other catasrophe.

As far as a not totally closed endcap, I have heard it mentioned with other mods before. The mod fires fine with the fuse in there, and it is only fraction of a milimeter we are talking about. Almost a hair.

Really, I am not worried about it any more.

Edited July 21, 2013 by ArnieH

[Uma]

Well, you're too late Bubba. The cavalry is here. Buckle up.

Copy/Pasting Griz's reply, so I don't mess it up. (don't worry, he straightens me out the most).

Hi Uma!

I wonder what resistance he's running at? I've noticed myself that the vape tails off much later with lower resistance setups, and I've driven a 14500 or two down to 2.5 volts that way. I always try to keep my coils around the 1.2 - 1.3 ohm mark at a minimum now and I notice the battery dropping below 3.6 volts very quickly.

It depends very much on your setup and what kind of atomiser you are using (mesh, silica, hybrid...) as to how the atomiser performs over a large range of voltages. It's also about personal sensitivity to the quality and volume of vapour diminishing.

Trust me, on a normal mechanical mod, the voltage is decreasing, but a combination of setup and sensitivity is making him not notice the voltage dropping.

Some things about protected batteries...

The little circuit board that sits on top of the battery does three things:

1. It prevents you from over charging the battery. Even if the charger is faulty, the protection board will stop the battery from being charged to over 4.2 volts.
2. It prevents you from over discharging the battery. Once the battery goes down to 2.5 volts, the protection board will not allow the battery to discharge further.
3. It protects against you trying to draw more current from the battery than it is designed for. A hard short in your mod would draw a huge amount of current, except that can't happen on a protected battery as the protection board will shut down as soon as the current exceeds the set level.

Using a second fuse in this case is completely redundant. The protection board is already providing that function.

Then IMR batteries.

1. They are not protected.
2. Over charging an IMR battery will cause the battery to lose capacity and shorten it's life. Unlike a standard Li-ion, it won't explode or catch fire if you over charge it.
3. Over discharging an IMR below 2.5 volts will reduce the battery's capacity. Discharging an IMR to under 1.5 volts will turn it into a short circuit. Most chargers will refuse to charge a battery that's been damaged this way as the battery tries to draw too much current from the charger.
4. Even if you short circuit an IMR battery, the only thing it will do is get very hot. This will also destroy the battery. As far as I am aware, there has never been an event where a good quality IMR battery has failed in an explosive way.

I've never used a one time or resettable fuse with my IMRs and have no plans to start doing so either! Both devices, and especially the resettable fuse introduce resistance into the circuit.

With a Vamo or Kick, the regulation circuits will keep the output voltage constant until the battery drops down to 3.3 volts, so there should be no difference between a fully charged or nearly empty battery. Both devices also protect against the risk of a short circuit in the atomiser.

You are quite safe to keep your batteries that have gone down to 3.2 volts, even if they have gone down to 2.5 volts. Just make sure that you put them on the charger straight away.

When you over discharge a Li-ion (IMR or standard) battery, you run the risk of dissolving the anode (positive terminal) as there are no more lithium ions avalable to deliver current. This can cause tiny whiskers of metal to start growing from the anode to the cathode and this shorts out the battery. This process only really starts happening at around 1.5 volts, so as long as your battery has not been discharged under 2.0 volts, there's probably some life left in it. Here's a link to an interesting paper from NASA of all people that goes into this in more detail. http://www.techbriefs.com/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=/Briefs/Feb99/NPO19897.html

I hope this helps! Give me a shout if there's more you need to know.

All the best,

Mike

[ArnieH]

Ulma, please send my thanks to Mike for his help and answers. And thanks to you for posting this.

If you wish please pass along the following responses:

1. "Using a second fuse in this case is completely redundant. The protection board is already providing that function"

Thanks, This much I knew. But since when is redundancy a bad thing when it comes to safety?

2. "Both devices, and especially the resettable fuse introduce resistance into the circuit"

This is something I DID not know. I should be able to test the resistance of the fuse with my multimeter correct? Assuming resistance is added to the circuit, I could compensate for it by just using a lower resistance attty, right?

3. "the little circuit board that sits on top of the battery does three things:"

It was my understanding that the protection circuit board was located at the bottom of the battery (negative pole), not at the top. Please confirm.

4. "I wonder what resistance he's running at?"

I was using a Vision Victory Tank Bottom coil clearomizer. The included head was advertised at 1.8 ohms, but upon testing with both the Vamo and my multimeter it measured around 2.4 ohms,

Please note, I am not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to clarify. Thanks for your time and your responses.

Edited July 21, 2013 by ArnieH

[Uma]

Ulma, please send my thanks to Mike for his help and answers. And thanks to you for posting this.

If you wish please pass along the following responses:

1. "Using a second fuse in this case is completely redundant. The protection board is already providing that function"

Thanks, This much I knew. But since when is redundancy a bad thing when it comes to safety?

ME: Griz said it was redundant. He didn't say redundancy was bad or good or indifferent. Just redundant.

GRIZ: But It is bad in how your set up looks. For instance, your cap doesn't close, it will look awful. Plus the threads can get gritty, will need cleaning more often, dirty threads lose current, etc (I'm ad-libbing a little here)

2. "Both devices, and especially the resettable fuse introduce resistance into the circuit"

This is something I DID not know. I should be able to test the resistance of the fuse with my multimeter correct? Assuming resistance is added to the circuit, I could compensate for it by just using a lower resistance attty, right?

GRIZ: You might be able to measure a resistance. You might also measure none at all.

The resettable fuse has an intrinsic resistance (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resettable_fuse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resettable_fuse)) The more the current flowing approaches the device's trip limit, the higher that intrinsic resistance becomes. In the end, you exceed the limit and the resistance becomes so high that significant current flow ceases.

The one time fuses also have an intrinsic resistance. They would not be able to blow otherwise!

The resistances involved are small, but when we are talking about atomiser resistances that are significantly less than three ohms, and normally less than two ohms, the resistance of such devices becomes significant.

Compensating by using a lower resistance atomiser may help with a one time fuse. With a resettable fuse, you're likely to enter a situation of diminishing returns.

ME: I'm the one who uses the resettable fuse, OP uses the shortstop one timer fuse.

3. "the little circuit board that sits on top of the battery does three things:"

It was my understanding that the protection circuit board was located at the bottom of the battery (negative pole), not at the top. Please confirm.

GRIZ: Yes, the protection board is at the negative terminal. Depends what you call top or bottom.

4. "I wonder what resistance he's running at?"

I was using a Vision Victory Tank Bottom coil clearomizer. The included head was advertised at 1.8 ohms, but upon testing with both the Vamo and my multimeter it measured around 2.4 ohms,

GRIZ: The kit/set up being used is of not very good quality. Therein might lie the basis to the issues. You need a better quality setup all the way around. It wouldn't hurt to seek optional equipment.

Me: OP, I thought you had an IGO-L?

ME: Your resistance may have started at 1.8, but changed as it tired. I know I have to remove a coil off my Genesis atty as it breaks in, a few days to a week later, and thereafter until it needs recoiling completely. I don't know if the the Vision Victory Tank Bottom Coil Clearomizer thingie does that or not. (I've never used one).

Please note, I am not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to clarify. Thanks for your time and your responses.

We hope this helps, and I hope I did a good job relaying and didn't mess up.

[ArnieH]

Me: OP, I thought you had an IGO-L?

ME: Your resistance may have started at 1.8, but changed as it tired. I know I have to remove a coil off my Genesis atty as it breaks in, a few days to a week later, and thereafter until it needs recoiling completely. I don't know if the the Vision Victory Tank Bottom Coil Clearomizer thingie does that or not. (I've never used one).

Thanks for relaying that info Ulma. Didn't mean to make you the go between. You really need like a magnifying glass to tell that the end cap is not tightened all the way, so it doesn't look awful by any means. I can provide a pic if you want.

I am not sure what Griz/mike is thinking when he says "depends what you call top and bottom". As far as I know the top of the battery is always the positive pole and is clearly distinguishable even on flat top batteries that don't have the button. I have never seen a battery where both terminals look exactly the same, but perhaps he has, Not trying to nitpick or anything.

I tested the resistance of the head right out of the box before use, so it wasn't your normal resistance creeping with age. Besides I've only had it a week or two and don't use it much.

Funny you should say that Ulma, actually I do have an IGO-L on the way in the mail. I also have the Protank, and 2 other Pyrex tanks, a Vivi Nova and a T3. Also have two Evod's on the way, but I prefer glass to plastic.

Thanks for all your help Ulma. You are my hero!

Edited July 22, 2013 by ArnieH

[CascadianExotics]

Uma is a wealth of knowledge, isn't she??

My only addendum to this thread would be this:

KNOW YOUR BATTERY!!!!!

I realize the topic of researching your battery's exact manufacture specs has already been covered in this thread. However, I feel it important enough to reinforce the point.

Another point that hasn't been covered is that you're using a new-generation battery.....which may account for the strange behavior. With the advent of new technology, the information we currently know about the batteries in the Vaping world is slowly becoming obsolete.

From what I understand, Orbtronic batteries perform really, REALLY well. The Panasonic CGR18650CH also outperforms AW-brand batteries on all levels. Their NCR-series look really promising too!!! And, recently, Sony released a 30-amp 18650 cell...putting ultra high-drain batteries into the "affordable" category.

AW's have been the gold-standard amongst Vapers for quite some time. However, times and battery chemistry are changing. Safer cells, higher-drain, and more mAh are now of the order.

[CascadianExotics]

Note:

I'm not a battery-expert, nor do I play one on TV.....

All I'm saying is that this is TRULY an exciting time to be Vaping!!!

(Sorry for the second post....the forum wouldn't let me edit my previous one for some reason)

[Uma]

LOL, I'm just glad everything's settling down and you're finding that you do find a drop in vapor production after all. That really had us baffled, and worried. I've heard the Panasonics were fantastic, but they haven't been put through the test of time with vaping yet, like the AW-IMR's have been. I didn't know if it was your battery, your battery and fuse, your battery/fuse/current from the cap, or what, but something sure was sorely wrong.

I learned that I've been tossing my 3.2 out of paranoia. That's good news!

But, the relevant issues were solved? Then we brainstormed well.

[CascadianExotics]

I've heard the Panasonics were fantastic, but they haven't been put through the test of time with vaping yet, like the AW-IMR's have been. 

After watching at least 3 or 4 videos independent of each other of Panasonic CGR cells being hard-shorted, and only getting warm where the AW IMR cells practically exploded when undergoing the exact same test....I think its safe to say, I'd prefer the ones that merely ran a small fever in my mod!!! :p

Besides, all the data from battery review sites confirm that the CGR cells can withstand substantial abuse, and still perform strong.

[ArnieH]

From what I understand, Orbtronic batteries perform really, REALLY well. The Panasonic CGR18650CH also outperforms AW-brand batteries on all levels. Their NCR-series look really promising too!!! And, recently, Sony released a 30-amp 18650 cell...putting ultra high-drain batteries into the "affordable" category.

Yes, Obrtronic and Panasonic are very good, high quality cells. I can tell you that Pbusardo, famous within the vaping community for his youtube vaping reviews, uses Orbtronic. The reviewer/tester in the battery test link here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html where a large number of 18650 cells were tested summarized his findings on the exact same 2900 mAh battery I have:

Orbtronic 18650 2900mAh (Black)

• Battery cell - Made in Japan (Panasonic)
• Protection circuitry - Made by Seiko Japan
• Over-current protection
• Over-discharge protection
• Over-charge protection
• Over-temperature protection
• Short-circuit DOUBLE protection

Conclusion

This battery uses a good cell, this secures many things:

• The batteries does match in capacity, i.e. they can be used in series.
• The battery is very safe.
• The battery has the specified capacity.

All in all a very good battery.

Edited July 22, 2013 by ArnieH