FDA to release "deeming" regulations October 2013

[Christopher]

FDA Announcment here: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201304&RIN=0910-AG38

While we don't know what the regulation will be, I've been chatting with a few individuals via email over the last week. Though speculation, it's believed that the FDA may ban any flavors that are not tobacco related. So essentially Menthol, Tobacco variations etc only (No Candy like flavors which could deem attractive to underage users) It's likely there will be heavy restriction on liquid creation. Now this isn't' necessarily bad, but it depends on what is required. Licensing, regulation and production requirements will always lead to higher cost naturally. It's also likely that states will follow suite with taxation.

There's also rumor that online sales may be terminated at some point (which most of us have speculated) but at this point, it's all educated guessing. (and would require further legislation)

Keep your eyes open and your stockpiles up.

[blucavvy]

Thankfully i've found a local vendor of eGo products and juices.

[irwink]

FDA Announcment here: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201304&RIN=0910-AG38

While we don't know what the regulation will be, I've been chatting with a few individuals via email over the last week. Though speculation, it's believed that the FDA may ban any flavors that are not tobacco related. So essentially Menthol, Tobacco variations etc only (No Candy like flavors which could deem attractive to underage users) It's likely there will be heavy restriction on liquid creation. Now this isn't' necessarily bad, but it depends on what is required. Licensing, regulation and production requirements will always lead to higher cost naturally. It's also likely that states will follow suite with taxation.

There's also rumor that online sales may be terminated at some point (which most of us have speculated) but at this point, it's all educated guessing. (and would require further legislation)

Keep your eyes open and your stockpiles up.

Using that flawed logic they should be looking to ban many non-ecig products as well, ie: fruit and other flavored liquors, etc. The contempt I have for the US govt. can't be overstated.

Edited July 10, 2013 by irwink

[bcartervol98]

I wonder if a flavor like "Spearmint" or "Peppermint" would be considered a banned flavor or a menthol variant?

[Halfwaycrook]

Personally I feel it will go by way of the headshop mentality. This is not a candy flavor, this is candy apple tobacco flavor. Which I feel is the wrong route but... What are ya gunna do? Crazy markups, intimidating teenage pot heads with rings in there lips. It they cut Internet sale that is. But then again maybe places like cvs/Walgreens/wal mart will step the game up. Killing the small business aspect altogether. Hopefully you have a dedicated shop of nothing but e-cigs with enuff local bissness to subside the lack of Internet sales.

[Rixter]

Well this sucks. Anybody have any stories about tortured kittens? That would cap this day off nicely I think.

Isn't it nice of the government to step in and "protect" all the kids who's "parents" are too inept to control what their offspring buy online?

As Jason Mattera, spokesman for Young America's Foundation, said (paraphrasing William F. Buckley, Jr.) at the 2010 Conservative Political Action Conference, "Hey, jackass, get your government off my freedom!"

Edited July 11, 2013 by Rixter

[Jeffb]

i think this is all a conspiracy by the suppliers to make us buy a bunch of stuff just in case.

[tzymroz2013]

More rules and redtape and control

[Bebop]

My prediction - this is gonna suck big time.

Maybe Jeff can start a "Town Hall" thread where we can discuss what will unfold in the coming months.

Can you imagine the black market that will emerge from this? I mean its not rocket science. Building a "home depot" vape will be easy. It's the juice is where they'll get you. There's a guy that just opened up a vape bar not far from me. Really does only juices. He must be a little worried right now.

*jumps up from chair* "jeffb Johnson is right! It's a conspiracy to make us stockpile!" *shakes fist angrily in the air*

[irwink]

I've been waiting for some semi definitive word on when the FDA will make a move to tip me over the edge into diy'ing juice. This may be it. I've already got the hardware side covered for the 'Vapocalypse'.

[IMEDICx90]

im definitely going to be purchasing liquid heavily until then and stockpiling on pure nicotine base. ill probably get 125ml every 2 weeks just to make sure that i have plenty of it to mix with loranns so that i can keep a constant vape going until im ready to be done. i wont go back to analogs but i might go back to dip if they completely outlaw this stuff. i am tired of being told what i can and cant do by the government.

i cant own an automatic assault rifle bc someone decided they wanted to shoot up a movie theater and a few schools (not demeaning the loss of the familys only the actions of the person who did the actual shooting)

i cant smoke in a bar or restaurant.

i cant be on my phone if im holding it (bc someone screaming into an ear piece is any less of a distraction)

its getting to be ridiculous. i for one think the community should start a petition right now and try and get it curbed before october.

EDIT:

and on a sidenote... why is it that I(we) have to suffer bc someone cant control THEIR child(ren)?!

personally i think its an infringement on my rights as a citizen. And if we can rule in favor of marijuana being legal in some states and for same sex marriage... why cant we be forward enough as a country to allow someone an alternative to a destructive lifestyle?

Edited July 11, 2013 by IMEDICx90

[bcartervol98]

Big Tobacco controls a lot of this, and until they either

1. Control the sale of vaping gear and liquids and profit from it

2. Get it completely banned

They will spend millions to push us back toward their products.

Sad but true, and we live in anything but a free country.

Going to not get long winded about this, but between 2002 and 2010 I earned about 30% of my annual income as an online poker pro. I played anywhere from 2000-2500 tournaments a month and made and extra $25-$30k per year from such. In 2006 Senator Bill Frist and a key group of senators stuffed a non-debated non-discussed clause (UIGEA Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act) into a "Safe Ports Bill" that they passed at midnight on the last day of the session. For several years everything went on as normal until what we deem as "Black Friday" then the US DOJ decided to freeze them assets of most major poker rooms. They immediately stopped allowing US players and made it difficult to cash out on some sites and impossible on others. It was a travesty, since online poker has absolutely 0 to do with "safe ports" and no one could withstand in an election year to have a vote against safe ports on their voting record. I lost about $5500 total in the debacle, and worse than that no longer had that income stream. I paid my taxes, reported all winnings offset by losses. It hurts to pay an insane amount of taxes, about 34% adjusted for my bracket, and have them tell me what I can and cannot do with the money I earn.

Of course I can go over to the convenience store across the street and buy lottery tickets with every penny I have on pure chance, but a game of skill is too harmful. I could stand there and scratch them off with all the others that go the day they get their government check and hang out until all my money is gone just like they do. But I cannot play online poker with the taxed income I legally earned in the privacy of my own home. I have to go to a casino, away from my family, and sit bored getting 15-20 hands per hour where online it was more like 350-400 hands an hour playing 12-16 tables.

Bottom line is when someone refers to this as a free country, I have to laugh a little inside. It is nothing close to free.

/ rant

Edited July 11, 2013 by bcartervol98

[IMEDICx90]

i guess so... its just getting frustrating altogether. not that i really have a need for an AAR but the fact remains i still cant have one because of someone else's actions... not mine... someone else's. well if we all followed that logic... we would either:

A. all be bill gates and have no need for government funding (not likely)

B. be criminals to the T and homes would be jails

C. be living on the street as homeless people bc we just happened to see it and thought it looked like fun.

im almost positive A wouldnt happen.

and bcarter i feel your pain. I too did online poker though not to that extent. I made probably 6-7K a year extra and that was nice. Thats how i bought my car paid for the extras like vacation and such and now its non existent income. so im sorry for your loss as well as mine and the many millions of online poker players that actually achieved something from it.

[blucavvy]

K, well i'm not going to get too carried away in my reply here bcuz well service members posting things like this has gotten them in trouble in the past. I agree the amount of regulation our government has in it's population oversteps boundaries. I agree that not everything they do is "right". But as someone who serves in the armed forces (and is god damned proud of it) i find all this talk of America not being "free" offensive. If you really think you can have a better life elsewhere, by all means. Don't underestimate the amount of freedom you have here. We live in a very privelaged society and we should all be grateful for the opportunities available to us.

As for this legislation, your'e all getting worked up before we even really know what's going on. Remember the scare when they were trying to decide if vaping was a drug delivery device or a tobacco product? We got out of that one and everyone was sure that was it for e cigarettes. Don't jump the gun before we even know the outcome is all i'm saying.

[IMEDICx90]

I'm not saying we don't have freedom Blu, I'm simply saying that the logic they use to restrict the whole population is based off of a few individuals, not a majority group as a whole. I thank you for your time Blu and every other man and woman in the armed forces. But some of the restriction with the legislation in the last 12 years have become absolutely ridiculous. Now not having health care is a federal crime?! Really?! What if you can't afford it? And further more. Obamacare will cost me more a year then the benefits I have now through work and mine are leaps and bounds better!

[bcartervol98]

Blu first off thank you and all those like and before you for your service and sacrifice. I in no way mean or meant to belittle anything you or those before you have done to ensure our freedoms. My outlash comes on the heels of legislators not service members and is pointed at all the things that are done on a daily basis that our founding fathers would have not only disagreed with, but would have actively joined the fight against them. The overall "nanny state" attitude our legislators on both sides of the fence exhibit makes me very emotional and sometimes maybe I do not phrase things correctly.

I think if the Democrats would stop worrying about mandating those of us that have busted our asses to attain a little wealth and taxing-regulating us out of existence and the Republicans would stop worrying about mandating and legislating their personal beliefs on everyone and both concentrated on the actual issues facing our country then we would return to greatness. In terms of rights, the constitution has been trampled on by both sides and nothing is done. Legislators sit idly by while illegal search and seizures, spying on citizens, warrantless and unfounded in many cases, and do nothing. Our governmental system in the modern era is a joke, and has become a system of who can offer the biggest bribe is the winner. If there were a law enacted that would make it a major felony to accept one penny beyond your actual salary paid by the taxpayers and eliminated lobbyists, PACs, and all the others that buy and sell our legislators votes like any other commodity then maybe people would find their way to DC that are interested in solving problems not lining their already full pockets.

I understand your stance Blue and appreciate it, but in no way was I or would I attempt to belittle your or anyone elses service.

[Bebop]

I believe the FDA was created by a well intentioned populace and a well intentioned administration. But they have been subject to false information, misinformation, outright lies, and corrupt influence their entire "life". And therefore they have made mistakes - and big ones. In an effort to regulate and protect consumers from potential devastating consequences (a noble goal and purpose for sure) they are prone to unfounded whim as well as deep deep pockets. Have you seen pharmaceutical commercials these days? The list of warnings and side effects on "approved" drugs is enough to question their practices. How about the ads for class-action suits? Not to mention what is "approved" in the way of what we consume as food products. It's a mess for sure. You think energy drinks are not aimed at kids?

As to vaping, the FDA is going to be subject to the same whims, lies and corruption both social and political. They are going to make mistakes. They are going to act based on the influence of powerful lobbies, child advocate groups and Big Tobacco and that means unreasonable restrictions, high costs, sweeping legislature, and loss of what we perceive to be the freedoms we enjoy in the vaping community today. And it's probably going to significantly alter vaping as we know it within the next 2 years, if not sooner.

[blucavvy]

Blu first off thank you and all those like and before you for your service and sacrifice. I in no way mean or meant to belittle anything you or those before you have done to ensure our freedoms. My outlash comes on the heels of legislators not service members and is pointed at all the things that are done on a daily basis that our founding fathers would have not only disagreed with, but would have actively joined the fight against them. The overall "nanny state" attitude our legislators on both sides of the fence exhibit makes me very emotional and sometimes maybe I do not phrase things correctly.

I think if the Democrats would stop worrying about mandating those of us that have busted our asses to attain a little wealth and taxing-regulating us out of existence and the Republicans would stop worrying about mandating and legislating their personal beliefs on everyone and both concentrated on the actual issues facing our country then we would return to greatness. In terms of rights, the constitution has been trampled on by both sides and nothing is done. Legislators sit idly by while illegal search and seizures, spying on citizens, warrantless and unfounded in many cases, and do nothing. Our governmental system in the modern era is a joke, and has become a system of who can offer the biggest bribe is the winner. If there were a law enacted that would make it a major felony to accept one penny beyond your actual salary paid by the taxpayers and eliminated lobbyists, PACs, and all the others that buy and sell our legislators votes like any other commodity then maybe people would find their way to DC that are interested in solving problems not lining their already full pockets.

I understand your stance Blue and appreciate it, but in no way was I or would I attempt to belittle your or anyone elses service.

I can totally understand where your'e coming from on that and quite honestly i agree. Sorry, i get a little worked up when i see people talk about how we're oppressed or something of those words. I haven't had the easiest life (as i know most of us haven't), i've had to fight tooth and nail to get to where i am today and i'm incredibly proud of my progress. My point is simply that this country does still offer the opportunity to have things in life that most country's populations couldn't even dream of having. I will 100% agree that things have gone awry (is that spelled right? lol) in our country. I can't speak out about my opinion on the government or any branch therein (for obvious reasons), but i do still believe this is a free country regardless of how the current trend in government is going.

But, i kind of pushed this thread off topic (my apologies Christopher), so as far as the legislation goes, to be quite honest i'm really not all that worried about it. If it means we're regulated to brick and mortar so be it. There are always legal loopholes. Big tobacco corporations are not the only ones who can play on the law. Let them outlaw candy flavors, as was mentioned earlier we can just spin it and say it's candy tobacco or some other such nonsense. I think vaping has become too large at this point to think about shutting it down. We're in the 21st century now and change has come. For the best.

[mruggal]

It totally looks baseless rumours.If FDA is planning it let them announce it.But we have to behave more rational and start to frame alternative plan if FDA bring the law in future.We have to communicate our real intension to the society.

[Love2VapeDaily]

Can we not load the san andreas fault full of dynamite and separate california and the governator from the rest of the US since cali always seems to have a stick up it's ***? Pardon my french

Edited July 23, 2013 by Love2VapeDaily

[Jeffb]

Can we not load the san andreas fault full of dynamite and separate california and the governator from the rest of the US since cali always seems to have a stick up it's ass? Pardon my french

The FDA is not in California

[IMEDICx90]

The FDA is not in California

we could still do it though....

[Jeffb]

That would be cool. I would then live on an island in the Pacific and my property value might go up .

[IMEDICx90]

And then I'm moving to California to harass the heck outta Jeff! Great plan!!!!!

[bcartervol98]

All I know is I am gonna buy a butt-load of liquid in September to be safe for a while, at least 1500ml.