Should I Tell My Patients?

[seaspine]

Got my 510 about 2 weeks ago, have gone from 3 packs a day to analog free the past couple of days.

This is exciting to me as I have tried everything to quit in the past, so now I'm telling all my family, coworkers and friends how great vaping is,how easy it made it to give up tobacco,and how much better I feel.

I am a nurse and I have been hesitant about telling my smoking patients. I worry about legal issues if the FDA were to find that vaping causes cancer, even though most of my patients have been smoking long enough that the analogs would have caused any cancer or heart disease for that matter.

I guess want I want to know is can a patient sue me for recomending vaping over some of the more established (and profitable) stop smoking aids out there ?

I don't think this question will be answered here, but it should be good for some debate, I'd like to hear from

anyone who has thoughts about this.

[TheSmokingMan]

Got my 510 about 2 weeks ago, have gone from 3 packs a day to analog free the past couple of days.

This is exciting to me as I have tried everything to quit in the past, so now I'm telling all my family, coworkers and friends how great vaping is,how easy it made it to give up tobacco,and how much better I feel.

I am a nurse and I have been hesitant about telling my smoking patients. I worry about legal issues if the FDA were to find that vaping causes cancer, even though most of my patients have been smoking long enough that the analogs would have caused any cancer or heart disease for that matter.

I guess want I want to know is can a patient sue me for recomending vaping over some of the more established (and profitable) stop smoking aids out there ?

I don't think this question will be answered here, but it should be good for some debate, I'd like to hear from

anyone who has thoughts about this.

Do nurses take an oath like doctors do, to do no harm? You don't know if harm is being done or not. Common sense would tell you that vaping is less harmful than smoking, but it has yet to be proved, scientifically or medically. They're are some doctors out there who vape and recommend it to their patients, or so the ads claim. If you were to do it in a personal capacity and not a medical capacity, then it would just be the opinion of one person to another. I certainly, for the sake of your liability, wouldn't make any recommendations in a professional capacity or while on duty or in uniform for that matter. That being said, if a patient were to observe you vaping and draw their own conclusions without your council, then the choice would be theirs wouldn't it?

[Christopher]

Rather than suggest they try, you could point out that you quite smoking using the Electronic Cigarette. Let THEM get curious rather than tell them to quite using the ecig. If they ask about where they can get more info, send them to the forum. Or any forum for that matter. Let them do the thinking, you just need to drop the idea in their head.

Just say something like

"You know I was able to quite smoking using the new E Cigs that came out"

"oh yea? do you advise I get one?"

"Unfortunately only a doctor can inform you about your quit options, but I suggest perhaps you look into it. Do your own research and see what you think"

Something like that anyway

[Fenwick]

Man I know what you are saying. It feels good to quit this easily, but we have to ambassadors. Keep it to your self. Let the people that are ready seek you out.

This is a criticl moment in time.

We should inform those who need to be informed, but we cannot impose on those who are in flux..........at least until the FDA is on our side.

[NeRo9k]

This is great - I love that people are so enthusiastic about e-cgis! Although, some people are really hesitant and don't believe it's safer than analogs, I've gotten like 3 people to order them, pretty much everyone I show is intrigued.

[kitsune]

I know how you feel...I'm a nurse too and struggle with the same issue. Smoking man has it dead on. I don't think we should recommend it in a professional situation, however I have recommended to a few that it would be worth some research on their part. I let them make the decision, I don't even tell them I vape or give any type of personal information, just an opinion and let them decide if they want to follow up on it.

Co-workers however are a different matter--I love converting them

[seaspine]

This is whit I decided to do. If I tell a patient he needs to quit smoking, I will the tell him (or her) how i was able to do it. I will then explain that the e-cig has not been fully studied and may be harmful in the long run.

only one patient will ever see me vape. That is a a beautiful woman that with throat cancer that has now spread to her brain and lungs,I am taking care of her treachostomy, she was the one that finally got me to try this. I felt it was approate to show her how I quit smoking. Unfortunatly the the technology for E-cigs came too late for her, I'm pretty sure she won't be around much longer.

[TheSmokingMan]

This is whit I decided to do. If I tell a patient he needs to quit smoking, I will the tell him (or her) how i was able to do it. I will then explain that the e-cig has not been fully studied and may be harmful in the long run.

only one patient will ever see me vape. That is a a beautiful woman that with throat cancer that has now spread to her brain and lungs,I am taking care of her treachostomy, she was the one that finally got me to try this. I felt it was approate to show her how I quit smoking. Unfortunatly the the technology for E-cigs came too late for her, I'm pretty sure she won't be around much longer.

Unfortunately the product was too late for a lot of people, more than we'll ever know. Hopefully it will be proven safe and effective. We already know it's effective, I have stopped smoking and don't miss it, it has been the easiest way for me to stop smoking. Now I'm in the process of weening myself off of the Nicotine. They're many stories that I have read of people using this as a way to quit smoking and if it continues and it is proven safe, think of how many lives will be spared and the cost to the medical community and to the taxpayers, especially if this health care hoax goes through.

[LaceyUnderall]

One thing to ask yourself is how do you define "quitting"? Do you see quitting in terms of "I haven't smoked a tobacco cigarette for two weeks so I must have quit" Or do you see yourself after a year of not having a tobacco cigarette saying "I haven't had the urge for a tobacco cigarette in over a year so therefor, I quit".

We can get into a semantics debate regarding whether one actually quits if they are still participating in the action and the nicotine, both or one, but we won't do that today

For me... I have "quit" enough times to know that I go 4 months... tops. That's not quitting... that's a pause. And even with the ecig... I smoked cigarettes and used an ecig... didn't smoke any cigarettes for 4 months... smoked both for the summer and now find myself winding down again to probably smoke no tobacco because it's just too cold to suffer outside.

For you nurses out there, I know an RN who has an amazing way of introducing the ecig to smokers with COPD, emphysema, etc and how she goes about getting the word out... and if you are interested I would certainly be happy to connect you. Please feel free to PM me.

[VaPOOrizer]

Unfortunately the product was too late for a lot of people, more than we'll ever know. Hopefully it will be proven safe and effective. We already know it's effective, I have stopped smoking and don't miss it, it has been the easiest way for me to stop smoking. Now I'm in the process of weening myself off of the Nicotine. They're many stories that I have read of people using this as a way to quit smoking and if it continues and it is proven safe, think of how many lives will be spared and the cost to the medical community and to the taxpayers, especially if this health care hoax goes through.

You know, I wonder if the tobacco companies have government officials in their pockets, namely the FDA. Do you know how much money and tax revenue would be lost if they advertised the ecig on television and it was more open to the public, more ad campaign's went out for it? Sit back and think about that. I'm sure someone already thought of that but I haven't been on the forum long so I haven't seen it. The whole theory sort of reminds me of the hydro car. Someone found out a way to run cars off of water and when they went to patent the idea, the government bought it from them and never produced it. I say, the govt. can say all they want to about how oil and tobacco is bad but the almighty dollar speaks louder to them than anyone's health and I believe that they just want to keep pumping money into their pockets regardless of what they say. My $0.02

On a great note, I ordered two VP2's last night, one for me and the wife, and I am excited as hell about quitting smoking! After watching many of Chris' video's, I'm sure I made the right decision... just have to order the 801 SB atty's as recommended. Thanks for being so informative and getting the word out Chris....

[keenan]

As a former EMT, I would absolutely advise AGAINST reccomending this to a patient while in uniform or on duty. Only because, in this day of age of sue me, sue you mentality, youd be putting yourself in a precarious position. I remember we covered about 3 days of legalities during training, which bothered me that as a public servant I had to cover my Butt.

[FTJoe]

You know, I wonder if the tobacco companies have government officials in their pockets, namely the FDA.

I've always maintained that you shouldn't be surprised if the pharma have tons of lobby money going at the bans and government as well. Maybe even more. They have all the NRT (nicotine replacement therapies) and flat out drugs (welbutrin, and the latest drugs) that are used to help quit smoking.

[keenan]

I've always maintained that you shouldn't be surprised if the pharma have tons of lobby money going at the bans and government as well. Maybe even more. They have all the NRT (nicotine replacement therapies) and flat out drugs (welbutrin, and the latest drugs) that are used to help quit smoking.

What I dont understand is, and its because Im not up on the politics of all this, is that if e cigs are clearly a MORE effective nicotene delivery system than anything they offer (Big Pharma), WHY arent they jumping on the bandwagon. Not That I WANT them to, but why? Anyone know

[keenan]

One thing to ask yourself is how do you define "quitting"? Do you see quitting in terms of "I haven't smoked a tobacco cigarette for two weeks so I must have quit" Or do you see yourself after a year of not having a tobacco cigarette saying "I haven't had the urge for a tobacco cigarette in over a year so therefor, I quit".

We can get into a semantics debate regarding whether one actually quits if they are still participating in the action and the nicotine, both or one, but we won't do that today

For me... I have "quit" enough times to know that I go 4 months... tops. That's not quitting... that's a pause. And even with the ecig... I smoked cigarettes and used an ecig... didn't smoke any cigarettes for 4 months... smoked both for the summer and now find myself winding down again to probably smoke no tobacco because it's just too cold to suffer outside.

For you nurses out there, I know an RN who has an amazing way of introducing the ecig to smokers with COPD, emphysema, etc and how she goes about getting the word out... and if you are interested I would certainly be happy to connect you. Please feel free to PM me.

For me, personally, I look at it like ANY addiction, alcohol, heroin, whatever, you are ALWAYS addicted, the addiction doesnt go away because youve stopped. Once youve had a taste, you cant put that toothpaste back in the tube. You cant "cure" an addiction, you have to control it. Thats just how I help myself

[Evapers]

I think any medical professional risk losing their licence for recomending a product that has not been studied and approved.

[LaceyUnderall]

For me, personally, I look at it like ANY addiction, alcohol, heroin, whatever, you are ALWAYS addicted, the addiction doesnt go away because youve stopped. Once youve had a taste, you cant put that toothpaste back in the tube. You cant "cure" an addiction, you have to control it. Thats just how I help myself

Agreed. Your toothpaste analogy is a good one

The other issue with the "addiction" argument is differentiating between what is actually the addiction and what is the behavior. We contacted the CDC regarding this: http://www.e-cig.org/2009/08/27/the-legal-argument-about-why-the-electronic-cigarette-is-not-an-nrt/

The slippery slope here is when using the phrase "Quit Smoking", are you treating the disease, which is the addiction to nicotine, or are you modifying behavior?

For instance, if the behavior of smoking is a behavior and not a disease (according to the CDC), wouldn't the correct phrase be "Quit Nicotine"? If not, then someone could easily come out with products that modify all types of behaviors they deem as "bad" behaviors including same sex interaction. The slippery slope being that if the action of smoking is deemed as the addiction, which to many is an unacceptable behavior, then the door is wide open to include any "deviant" behavior as treatable. And please, I do not think being homosexual is a deviant behavior, choice, etc., however, then, we could see a launch of pills on the market that if you take this pill, you will no longer be homosexual. This could be true for nose pickers, hair twirlers and so on.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the ecig as a "quit smoking device" just seems like an oxy-moron because you aren't quitting the action of smoking and it certainly isn't a "quit nicotine device" if you are still using nicotine. Technically, if you are using an ecig with nicotine, you are still smoking and you haven't really quit. You may have quit "combustionable smoking", but that isn't treating a disease, that's simply changing your product choice.

[keenan]

I agree. And I dont think e cigs should be touted as "quit smoking" devices. That pins them to the wall as an either fail or succeed device. Recovering alcoholic, recovering heroin addict, recovering smoker maybe.

[Blondie]

I work an a surgery assistant in a oral surgery office and I have bee telling patients who I know (smell) smoke about what I have done. I basically tell them that I haven't had one for two weeks and how I did it. Gave them the forum site and where I got mine.

[Speakeasy]

I work an a surgery assistant in a oral surgery office and I have bee telling patients who I know (smell) smoke about what I have done. I basically tell them that I haven't had one for two weeks and how I did it. Gave them the forum site and where I got mine.

I don't know why I haven't found this topic until now. It's a great thread. I'm a long-time nurse too. I've been telling everyone I know about it, patient or friend or stranger. I fully believe that this device is no more harmful than any other NRT.

To me, the question isn't "Are ecigs safe?" The question is, "Are ecigs safer than smoking?"

Edited November 7, 2009 by Speakeasy

[keenan]

I don't know why I haven't found this topic until now. It's a great thread. I'm a long-time nurse too. I've been telling everyone I know about it, patient or friend or stranger. I fully believe that this device is no more harmful than any other NRT.

To me, the question isn't "Are ecigs safe?" The question is, "Are ecigs safer than smoking?"

Thats like asking, is falling off of your front porch safer than falling off of the Empire State Building

[SteveD1]

Thats like asking, is falling off of your front porch safer than falling off of the Empire State Building

Keenan you hit that one on the Head...Pun intended...