I Sense A Sea Change In Vaping Coming Soon....

[xiefotah]

First time poster long time vaper here. Same story as most. Started with the 801 which didn't get it done. Got an ego and mistakenly and stupidly vaped it at 7.4 for a few months before I figured what I was doing with fugazi Chinese batteries and put it down. Back to the analogs. Got an ego and dripped dripped dripped. Pain in the butt, but it got me off the analogs. Got the VMOD xl and it actually works very well. Even having good results with the ego visions on my ego but the effect is not the same as 1.5 ohm atty with true 3.7 volt on the vmod.

Anywhoo, I see big changes coming in the next few months. Joyetech may get the VV ego battery right and gotvapes and others will eventually put together a hard hitting low resistance crack free ego tank vision stardust thingy. Nice form factor, reliability and a decent price will put the hurt on a few vendors. I see the price of several vv tube mods dropping like Oprah on ice skates. They know what is on the horizon.

I see lots of good things for consumers this summer. Cheaper, better, faster. Kind of like Steve Austin the $6 million dollar man.''

The folks doing high quality craftsman like wood mods and such will always have a market, but the mass market is going to change quickly methinks. What say you?

[xiefotah]

Actually it was an indulgence version 1 that I was playing russian roulette with at 7.4 volts. Strangely enough at the time I was living in China and used to have strange street urchins come into my office off the street offering to buy used batteries and empty analog cigarette boxes. Obviously they relabeled and sold the batts and refilled the boxes as the holograms were hard to defeat on the packages. Yet still I stacked those 3.7 chinese things in a now prehistoric metal tube mod.

Stuck on stupid I was. The vmod xl rocks in my opinion. A 4.5 volt ego vv battery with an 8 hour life rocking a 1.5 3 ml. vision would be sweet.

[blucavvy]

i disagree. your'e forgetting one very important factor. big tobacco just got involved. in a BIG way. it won't be long now before big pharma get's in, and then the FDA will mandate huge regulations/standards.

although i agree with you about quality getting better, the price will not be dropping. it will only go up from here. enjoy it now because we are in the golden age of vaping right now. once big business is involved, mom and pop shops will close up, regulations (although a good thing) will force alot of the small vendors out.

price is the one thing guaranteed in this industry, guaranteed to go up.

Edited April 28, 2012 by blucavvy

[mcquinn]

I think variety and bulk liquids will go away and prefilled regulated nic content and a very few tobaco flavors will be the future.I am at the point I am pretty sure I could quit vaping if it came to that.I mostly just vape for the flavor.It will be interesting to see how they go about it .Bans on internet sales will surely be part of it.I think the pioneer internet vendors are sensing this and that is why thier business model is going brick and mortar and most have aquired tobaco liscenses since vaping suplies are considered tobaco products.My advice is if you are trying to beat an addiction you should get down to low or no nic as quick as possible.If you are just trying beat the system you better stock up and learn how to DIY.But we have been hearing stuff like this for years and will just have take it as it comes.

[xiefotah]

Gotta agree to disagree here, Hoss. I see only a few vendors doing real size and taking advantage of economies of scale. Most were not even in the game a few years ago. There markups are large and margins fat, but they are forced to do so. Most do not have years of experience with China. Quality control issues are many. The products change quickly. How would you like to be sitting on an inventory of 1,000 ego booster for sale at $60 with a $30 vv ego battery that might even work hitting the shelves in a month?

Big tobacco can't do squat now. Vaporizers cannot be stopped. Rebuild able atties, DIY juices. Yeah I guess they could put odd battery sized batteries and Loranns flavoring behind the counter like they do with cough syrup since the meth heads went nuts.

The product market will become more consolidated and standardized around an ego type unit. This will last until they can devise a hard hitting boost smoove type thing with a longer battery life. And standardization and commoditization means lower margins and lower prices.

[xiefotah]

Ask yourself a few basic question. Imagine if a large company with proven manufacturing experience put together a major ego type battery factory and the boys from Bentonville (Wal-Mart) bought them in bulk. We are talking about 1100 mah ego batts on the shelves at wal mart for $9.99 with vv ego batts for $16.99 Those numbers are realistic and that is what will happen in two years if big cig does not muck things up.

[blucavvy]

you don't understand. i'm not talking about big tobacco getting involved to shut things down, i'm talking about big tobacco getting involved to save their own skins since their native industry is on the fritz and they know it. i know vaporizers aren't going anywhere, i fully agree. i'm saying that all the nice variety that we have now, will come to an end.

they'll turn it in to a mass production drug device to maximize profit instead of the industry we know now and most of us love. the little mom and pop stores that make the best liquid? forget about it, they'll be gone, they can't compete with BT's money, it'll all be Dekang type crap liquid with zero flavor. the FDA will force the industry to only be able to use tobacco and menthol flavors. like previously stated internet sales will most likely become illegal as will "flavored" juices.

the industry is going to change, and not in a good way. the only good i see in the industry up and coming is the regulation that will be forced to happen so that retards stop blowing their faces off.

[blucavvy]

as for what type of pv will be the most prevelant when all these changes do take place, i disagree again, i think it will be stick style batt's like are currently available in 7/11's and gas stations and what not, although obviously of better quality. think the smokelessimage volt. people don't like the look of eGo's until they actually get over the fact that vaping isn't smoking. cig sized pv's are where the bulk of the money is at, that's where newb's will spend the most, and it's where MOST people will spend their time vaping, not everyone turns vaping into a hobby, some people do just use it to get off smokes or for social reasons.

those of us that get in to mods, and provari's and all that **** do it for the same reasons that people "mod" their cars. but for 99% of the population, a car is just a vehicle to get from point a to point b. same thing with ecigs, in the majority's eyes, it's just there to get people off of smokes, doesn't have to be fancy.

[xiefotah]

Yes, Big Cig is evil, but they ain't stupid. Will the hardware get much better and much cheaper? Yup. the folks importing and reselling the same stuff as 10 other guys with a rebranded name are in for a world of hurt. The guys that do high quality and unique mods will make money as they should considering the value they add.

Will e-liquid get cheaper? Yup, but you won't be able to tell since they will slap a large tax on it. Probably a wash net net. DIY folks will be able to find a way to flavor their stuff. Large companies make the juice and the prices fall 50% then the government slaps a 100% tax on it. No effect on the price.

[xiefotah]

I agree with what you said. The huge sweet spot of the market is an analog sized device with an all day battery and efficient juice delivery system. But that is a few years off. I said that this summer will see the emergence of a vv ego with a better vision thing as almost an industry standard. The mini will follow but we ain't there yet.

Hell, a few years ago I used those freakin 801 pens with polyfill and chinese jungle juice and thought it was the bee's knees. Imagine what the next few years hold now that the profit potential is obvious to more and more.

[blucavvy]

i hope your'e right, honestly.

but i don't think that will be the case. price will go up. on everything.all things considered vaping's really not all that expensive as it is right now. one could vape for comfortably for $40 or $50 bucks a month. compare that to the cost of smoking (for me it was about $140 a month) and the tobacco companies will never allow their profits to be cut so drastically. again, price will go up.

I agree with what you said. The huge sweet spot of the market is an analog sized device with an all day battery and efficient juice delivery system. But that is a few years off. I said that this summer will see the emergence of a vv ego with a better vision thing as almost an industry standard. The mini will follow but we ain't there yet.

Hell, a few years ago I used those freakin 801 pens with polyfill and chinese jungle juice and thought it was the bee's knees. Imagine what the next few years hold now that the profit potential is obvious to more and more.

agreed 100%

[xiefotah]

Follow the math. The gov makes big bucks on the cig taxes but they pay it on the back end with medicare and the like. The only reason they exist is because they provide almost an annuity like stream of taxes to Washington. That stream will be broken down into lesser taxes on the front end and lower costs on the back medical end. Net net to the Feds.

But a very bad , bad time to be a middle of the road internet vendor. Standardization means commodization and lower margins. How many folks can compete when 70 % of the market will be an ego vv battery (if it works)? Tough way to make a living trying to sell a $28 item for $1 less than the next guy. And the big guys like madvapes can step up to the plate and buy 10,000 a shot to get the lowest prices. This will happen. Too many folks selling the same stuff. Notice all the coupons and steals and the like. Need a program to track them. Again watch the prices on the LT and similar tube mods. Dropping 40% in the last two months or so.

[blucavvy]

.....well, you've given me some things to mull over on a friday night.

welcome to the forum by the way.

[Jeffb]

Welcome to Vapor Talk xiefotah. Don't be so shy. Let us know what you think.

[xiefotah]

Thanks for the welcome.

What do I think?

1. Using a version 1.0 Indulgence at 7.4 volts with Chinese batteries is stupid.

2. The vmod xl is dollar for dollar a great setup.

3. That vision thing may be a game changer.

4. The ego vv battery will be a game changer if they do it right.

5. Bo Derek is the best thing to happen since 1980.

6. The guy making Reo mods makes a great product with great margins. He will rue the fact that he is not meeting market demand as it will not be around forever.

7. Folks playing the coupon game and rebranding game will be hurting. The folks that have seen the light and moved into the e-liquid based game will enjoy the good times for another 6 months or so.

8. Competing with China sucks. Low volume means low profits and high volume means they will copy and undercut you.

9. Turn the battery into a commodity, then a recyclable attomizer, then diy juice and what have you got?

[Jeffb]

Yes

[blucavvy]

lol

Jeffb for the win

[Mike]

Big tobacco can kiss my ***. If it came down to it all I have to do is figure out how to extract or obtain nicotine and I don't need help from anyone. I don't use much now but I still want some in my juice. Other than that I already have 100% working homade mods with homemade attys and juice that is that completely made from scratch. I've paid tax on cigarettes for years and if a tobacco co. thinks they're gonna get more money outta me they gotta nother thing commin'.... my middle finger.

[TheSmokingMan]

as for what type of pv will be the most prevelant when all these changes do take place, i disagree again, i think it will be stick style batt's like are currently available in 7/11's and gas stations and what not, although obviously of better quality. think the smokelessimage volt. people don't like the look of eGo's until they actually get over the fact that vaping isn't smoking. cig sized pv's are where the bulk of the money is at, that's where newb's will spend the most, and it's where MOST people will spend their time vaping, not everyone turns vaping into a hobby, some people do just use it to get off smokes or for social reasons.

those of us that get in to mods, and provari's and all that **** do it for the same reasons that people "mod" their cars. but for 99% of the population, a car is just a vehicle to get from point a to point b. same thing with ecigs, in the majority's eyes, it's just there to get people off of smokes, doesn't have to be fancy.

I have to agree with blucavvy on this point. I have been vaping since September of 2009 with a 2 year hiatus ending about now. I am not well traveled anymore as I used to be and haven't had a drink in a bar in over 15 years and haven't been to a night club in 20, but, I do run into a few people who vape and I see the cheap kits in the convenience stores. Everyone I have run into are using cartomizers that look like the old 808's (like a real cigarette). When I whip out my eGo with an 801 atty and a drip tip (I modified a cone to cover the fitting), they always say "Whoah! that thing is huge" and "It looks like a black dil do, that your sucking on". One very obvious thing that I have found to be true, analogue cigarettes are easy to smoke. When I started smoking a pipe years ago, My dad warned me about my job. He told me that he would never in his career as a business owner hire a pipe smoker because they'd spend all day trying to keep the d amn thing lit, and not getting work done. With an analogue there is no hassle, Phillip Morris invented the effortless smoking device that required nothing but fire and when it was done there was nothing left except a butt to toss out, completely disposable and easy to use.

eCigs turned into a major hobby for me and consumed a lot of my time and money. I personally don't regret it one bit, but the mass majority of smokers are not wanting to take up the eCig as a hobby in order to make the switch. If they are going to switch, the product that they switch to has to be self contained, disposable, easy to use and work every time at a price that is comparable to a pack of cigarettes. I love eCigs and was a fool for starting back on the analogues but the majority of analogue smokers out there aren't willing to put the time and effort into it like us eCig hobbyists are, they just want to light up and go...

Edited April 29, 2012 by TheSmokingMan

[DAYVAPE]

What do I think?

3. That vision thing may be a game changer.

Sorry, but I simply must respond to this specific statement. A couple of weeks back I was getting tired of everyone praising that 'Vision eGo Top Coil Cartomizer' thingy... so I went ahead and ordered myself 5 of them... oh, and a couple of the LR version ones. I just had to see what all the hype was about! Could it be? Could we possibly have something that everyone simply must have when they vape? I don't know... but I was certainly excited to give these bad boys a shot! So, they finally arrived about 3 days or so ago and I immediately started filling a couple of them up to give em a go! Well... let me just say this: I have not been this unhappy about something 'vape related' since I first started over 2 years ago! I have now filled 4 out of the 5 standard ones to see if it was possibly just a bad piece. Nope! They ALL suck major !! I mean... talk about major reduction in quality of flavor coming from those things! I didn't have a single juice make me a 'happy vaper' yet... and I'm honestly trying to give them a fair shot to 'break-in' if they honestly really need to do so for 3+ days now. Not only is the flavor terribly weak... a couple of them even give off a nasty taste. One thing I can say for certain however... is that they are all just like the next one... very consistent I guess you could say. Unfortunately, they are all consistently poor/weak to say the least. I truly did have high hopes for these little things... I was seriously going to be super happy if they were all that everyone was making them out to be! I should have just reminded myself of what I said when I tried CE2's when they first came out: I have NEVER liked 'top coil' type carto designs... every single time I tried them I got the same CRAPPY outcome... Horrible / weak flavor !

No thank you 'Vision eGo Stardust Thingy' that everyone is raving about!!

(Unless they improve them somehow along the lines and I don't have to worry that there will be NO FLAVOR !)

I think I will stick to what works for me: 'Direct Dripping' and/or 'Carto Tanks' !

Sorry, I just had to put my .02 out there too !

Edited April 30, 2012 by DAYVAPE

[Christopher]

I skimmed over this thread but while I do agree hardware will become cheaper I don't believe e liquid will. Not because it won't become cheaper to create but because there is simply no need to lower the price.You have to remember at one point e cigarettes where about quiting smoking. This is quickly changing. e Cigarettes are quickly becoming more of a replacement. There is no need to drop the price on e liquid because it's an addiction. It's one of those rare product categories.

Big Tobacco entering the game (which we all knew would happen) will benefit the community in the fact that we can all agree e cigarettes are now unlikely to become banned. After the market has become corporate controlled (and we see this slowly happening) hardware prices will drop to entice new customers while e liquid will probably become more expensive. When I say more expensive I don't mean the price of a bottle will raise but rather than distribution method will change. Bottled liquid will probably be removed from the market over the years with government touting safety. Corporate isn't going to disagree with this and thus no legal fights will ensue. (The profit margin is higher on carto's in the long term) Cartomizers or similar will dominate over traditional bottle liquid and this very delivery method change will cause e liquid to become more expensive by the very fact you can no longer purchase in bulk. Sure there will still be some DIY'ers but most won't go this route. Add in sin taxes that are guaranteed to come down the chain years from now and I'd bet money, you're not going to see cheaper liquid.

We're not selling toasters here we're selling an addictive drug, the same rules don't apply.

[blucavvy]

yeah but the same rules that apply to gas will apply here. raise the prices too much? and the people simply won't use it. that's what happened back in 08' when they jacked the price of gas up and over 4 bucks a gallon, everybody said fine, we'll use our cars to do everything necessary and nothing leisurely, and then what happened? gas dropped back down. ALOT.

same thing will happen here, i agree that bottled liquid will go away (this is not as big a deal for me as it is for some of us)so we have prefilled carto's. they'll test the waters and try and find out how much they can price them at. the higher the price goes the less they'll sell. that's just all there is to it. the higher the price the less i'll use in a day. and most other people will feel the same. in the end, after listening to last night's conversation, although i disagree with a lot of Russ's stupid points, he made one very valid one. this is probably the best thing that could happen to help boost the ecig's popularity. it's not going to go away at this point. and they're going to want to make money on it, the only way to do that is to appeal to everyone, and they won't do that if a 5 pack of carto's is $20. $10 an they'll be fine.

[Electroniccigaretteguy]

What I see mainly is over-saturation of the same product with a new label on it. The prices fluctuate so much I can't see this maintaining very long. This is good though because it should weed out the true companies from some guy in a garage with a label maker and some HTML skills.

Mods are getting better and once I get my variable I'll probably be set.

[ancient11]

What I see mainly is over-saturation of the same product with a new label on it. The prices fluctuate so much I can't see this maintaining very long. This is good though because it should weed out the true companies from some guy in a garage with a label maker and some HTML skills.

I don't think he will go away that easy but I do agrree a lot will be gone.

Mods are getting better and once I get my variable I'll probably be set.

Good luck on that one, for it seems we are never satisfied or just have to try that certain new one out.

[twelveday]

I am satisfied with the way I'm vaping right now, I think alot of it is that I have alot of extra money now since I quit cigarettes, and nothing to spend it on. Though I am still spending less than when I did for cigarettes, i make random orders here and there just to 'try' out some new cartos/attys/DIY stuff.