Fda To Regulate E-Cigs As Tobacco Products

[savanahrose]

I was thinking about the tobacco companies too. I betcha that they will get into that market themselves too. If you can't beat them, why not join them? More and more people are going the way of ecigs so you know that the tobacco companies are starting to lose money. I haven't given them any of my money lately.

I hope that we can still buy the juice over the internet, I buy VG juice and I don't think they sell it in the store that I got my Riva from.

[steeldragon]

It also seems interesting that the tobacco companies went out of their way to after the juices sellers who had juices named like Marlboro. I wonder if the reason they did that so the names will be free and clear of any derogatory annotations when they attempt to market the very same juices.

Paul

[Acroma]

Win!

[Cheriepye]

That's great news, but I wonder when they will start taxing them like cigs.

That's what I was wondering too, Beans.

Cherie

[ChainsawMBH]

That is great and all but its only a matter of time before big tobacco puts their boot on our throats and tries to cut out the smaller manufacturers of juice and (probably) hardware. Still wouldn't but an e-cig or juice produced by Winston-Salem or Phillip Morris.

[Cheriepye]

I wonder what this means for Internet sales? You can't buy cigs online (legally )

But, e-cigs are not technically a cigarette, are they?

Cherie

[Jeffb]

But, e-cigs are not technically a cigarette, are they?

Cherie

If the FDA is going to regulate e-cigarettes as tobacco products, then I believe internet sales may be in jeopardy.

[Cheriepye]

If the FDA is going to regulate e-cigarettes as tobacco products, then I believe internet sales may be in jeopardy.

But there is no tobacco in an e-cig. I had a sales girl in a kiosk in our mall tell me that

their nicotine is made from potatoes. I'll tell you, when I drew on what was supposed to be

close to Marlboro Lights (my regular brand) it tasted just like a potato. Yuck.

All this stuff is crazy.

[Christopher]

I think online sales will probably stay. I mean they allow only cigar sales and I believe e cigarettes will be placed in the same category. Nothing is 100% though.

As for Taxes remember the FDA doesn't impose them. That's usually at a state level. Let's just be sure we keep an eye on our states. The moment they propose a tax we all have to band together and protest the HELL out of it.

[Jeffb]

But there is no tobacco in an e-cig. I had a sales girl in a kiosk in our mall tell me that

their nicotine is made from potatoes. I'll tell you, when I drew on what was supposed to be

close to Marlboro Lights (my regular brand) it tasted just like a potato. Yuck.

All this stuff is crazy.

Thats interesting. Nic juice from potatoes. Never heard that before. Dont know that I would believe her. What brand were they selling at the kiosk?

[TroopX]

Thats interesting. Nic juice from potatoes. Never heard that before. Dont know that I would believe her. What brand were they selling at the kiosk?

Old dutch? Lay's? ...actually there is nicotine in different fruits and vegetables. From what I understood, it is more expensive to extract (??)

[DerStadtschutz]

I have no doubt the FDA will start targeting small operation liquid makers. Doesn't mean they'll be closed down, just mean they may have to setup facilities following strict FDA guidelines. (Which for the consumer is a good thing)

I agree that this is good to a degree, but I could also see how it could be bad in some ways. For instance, of course strict guidelines regarding cleanliness, ingredient lists, and things of that nature are good(although there are plenty of things that don't need to be identified completely on food labels... Like what the crap is Yellow #5? That doesn't really tell us what it is, and there are other things too). However, my concern isn't so much with the ingredients. Cleanliness is good, but depending on what the FDA's guidelines are, it could become more expensive for vendors to remain in business, which will drive up the cost of juice. One of the main reasons I started vaping was to save money. The health benefit is certainly nice, but it wasn't my primary concern. I guess even if vaping ends up costing more than cigarettes, it's still worth it to not be killing yourself by smoking, but I hope that doesn't end up being the case.

[lppa2006]

Thats interesting. Nic juice from potatoes. Never heard that before. Dont know that I would believe her. What brand were they selling at the kiosk?

Old dutch? Lay's? ...actually there is nicotine in different fruits and vegetables. From what I understood, it is more expensive to extract (??)

dont forget about the Tomacco [ LOL, Simpsons reference for those that forgot)

I agree that this is good to a degree, but I could also see how it could be bad in some ways. For instance, of course strict guidelines regarding cleanliness, ingredient lists, and things of that nature are good(although there are plenty of things that don't need to be identified completely on food labels... Like what the crap is Yellow #5? That doesn't really tell us what it is, and there are other things too). However, my concern isn't so much with the ingredients. Cleanliness is good, but depending on what the FDA's guidelines are, it could become more expensive for vendors to remain in business, which will drive up the cost of juice. One of the main reasons I started vaping was to save money. The health benefit is certainly nice, but it wasn't my primary concern. I guess even if vaping ends up costing more than cigarettes, it's still worth it to not be killing yourself by smoking, but I hope that doesn't end up being the case.

I hope it doesnt get expensive either, thats been the biggest benefit for me... wonder what the shelf life is of Nicotine base juices, might have to pick up a 250ml of high mg base before the FDA steps in

Edited April 26, 2011 by BirdDog
Staff edit.

[Schizophretard]

I love it when I haven't been on for awhile and then get an email update to a link with good news. This is great news but I won't be completely happy until the FDA is out of business.

[STEALTH]

.... As mentioned in an earlier post a few pages back, a Juice Underground will evolve. Perhaps the smaller companies can still offer Zero Nic flavors to which we add the nicotene ourselves, thereby all we need to try to purchase nic juice say from China or elsewhere as in the Underground. If so at least maybe only once or twice a year we would have to seek it out even if illegally. It seems like one can buy anything online if one really wants to make the effort.

Edited April 26, 2011 by jeffb
Admin Edit

[bugsman]

Wow, it was good to get the link to this information. I have just read all comments and info on this in the forum and have been educated. I can only hope the e-cig industry succeeds the FDA. This is certainly a win and I'm gonna try to get more informed about all this.

[AARONH]

.... As mentioned in an earlier post a few pages back, a Juice Underground will evolve. Perhaps the smaller companies can still offer Zero Nic flavors to which we add the nicotene ourselves, thereby all we need to try to purchase is the 100 mg nic juice say from China or elsewhere as in the Underground. If so at least maybe only once or twice a year we would have to seek it out even if illegally. It seems like one can buy anything online if one really wants to make the effort.

That's what my short term plan is...I ordered a 500ml bottle about a month ago, and boy does it stretch!!!..I just order some 4oz doublers from Tastyvapor, and add my nic juice when it arrives...very affordable!....may order another 500ml bottle for backup...the way I figure it, A 500ml bottle will last me about 18-24 months. AND it was only $108.00 shipped to my door! So basicly, I can make 5oz for about $17.00 or about $3.40 an oz.

Edited April 26, 2011 by jeffb
Admin Edit

[Beans]

That is great and all but its only a matter of time before big tobacco puts their boot on our throats and tries to cut out the smaller manufacturers of juice and (probably) hardware. Still wouldn't but an e-cig or juice produced by Winston-Salem or Phillip Morris.

And there you have it. When the big C companies cut in to the juice business, we need to be very watchful. Hell NO, I WONT be giving THEM my money. I would much rather Vape Chineese juice than Phillip Morris juice any day. Heck, I'd even learn to vape zero nic I make home than give them another penny in my life time!

[ECRECIGS]

Erik，

The forwarder called me that the UPS to WA98683 are easy to seized by USA customs,so i asks him to change as HKEMS without your agreement.Hope you can understand!

The HKEMS tracking number is:********

It can be checked online this afternoon,the forwarder said that!

this is a email got this morning from my supplier thought would throw this out there

[mmseng]

I'm sure there are other battles ahead...

Could be, but I'm still throwing a party!

[DerStadtschutz]

.... As mentioned in an earlier post a few pages back, a Juice Underground will evolve. Perhaps the smaller companies can still offer Zero Nic flavors to which we add the nicotene ourselves, thereby all we need to try to purchase nic juice say from China or elsewhere as in the Underground. If so at least maybe only once or twice a year we would have to seek it out even if illegally. It seems like one can buy anything online if one really wants to make the effort.

I know, there are illegal drugs, but that doesn't stop people from getting or doing those either, but that's not the point. I don't want to be limited to some crappy tobacco flavored or zero nic juice, and I don't feel like dealing with stupid cops and fines if I decide to overstep whatever boundaries the FDA wants to put in place. I'm an adult, damnit, and I like fruity and candy flavors too. I don't feel like having to deal with all the bs that comes along with doing illegal drugs just for some damn nicotine, and I don't wanna pay thru the nose either.

[steeldragon]

I can see a lot of battles ahead. The guidelines have yet to be set down. I can see cash strapped states fighting for another tax base. I can see the same states that have banned smoking in almost all areas started including vaping as such stating that the FDA rules them the same as Tobacco then they should be banned as cigarettes. The only thing we have won is the freedom to import without the seizures at customs. If they have any health claims they will still beseized. I really hope that I am wrong. I admit I am a pessimist but I am scared of my vaping future. I have worked hard to get rid of cigarettes now I wonder if this won't wind another expensive habit that I used to replace my last expensive habit.

Paul

[Elayna]

ARG!... the price of juice will go up, and since the FDA is regulating them as a "tobacco" product, all the smoking bans will be the same for cigarettes and e-smokes, even tho they do not have the same environmental effects.

[paise]

Why can't the FDA just stay the hell out of the way? It's not that difficult. They allow such grossly produced pieces of crap to be made available on late-night infomercials with no regulation, no checking into the manufacturing practices, no care for materials the products are made of,... basically, they just leave them the hell alone so why can't they do that with E-cigarettes? They already have booze and now tobacco cigarettes in their pockets. Why can't that be enough for those greedy bas-TURDS.

I am so freaking sick and tired of this government's FDA treating me as if I am a child who is unable to make adult decisions for myself as to what I believe is okay for me or not. I have not had to answer to my parents for permission in many, many years. Truth in fact, I didn't answer to either of them even when I did live at home because I was the one with the parental gene and commonsense. I raised my brother, who is only about 6-7 years younger than I am. I didn't just raise him in our parents' home. He came to live with me after I emancipated myself to get out of that dysfunctional household then gained legal guardianship of him in order to make sure he didn't turn out like our parents and to ensure he graduated from high school as well as had a career he could grow into in order to support himself and later a family - all of which he has done and I am so very proud of him.

The government has no problem selling booze to men and women who get on the highway where they are rarely pulled over for a DUI unless someone gets killed. They rarely if never pull a child(ren) out of a home when said alkie is an abusive ******* who beats not only his wife but primarily his children yet this is okay as long as he's buying his booze from the government-run alcoholic beverages store. We survived with scars on the inside that can be hidden as well as those on the outside, which are not as easy to hide.

As adults, we choose to use E-cigarettes rather than buy the cancer-causing tobacco sticks sold by the government yet it seems that the primary beef they have with us has NOTHING to do with our HEALTH and EVERYTHING to do with their dwindling tax money they were raking in until E-cigarettes came along and took their lollipops away. They don't want us to smoke but they keep cigarettes on the market and jack the prices up much higher than they do booze even though smoking a cigarette (tobacco cigarette) does NOT HINDER ONE'S ABILITY TO FUNCTION yet they don't give a rat's behind how much liquor one puts down because that is considered okay. If they put a limit on booze, the congressmen and high-flying CEOs might have to shell out more money to buy their favored brands not to mention jacking up their bills for their fund-raisers and parties where they almost always have a plethora of bourbon, high-end scotch, rum, etc... It'd cost them a fortune. It's why they don't give out cigars and cigarettes... It's too damned expensive and with booze, they can literally take it off their taxes as a business deduction because it relates to their business! (I'm a former accountant so I know this DOES happen and more frequently than you would think).

I just want the FDA to treat us as adults who have enough brains to decide for ourselves if we want to buy from this company or that company and for the government in general to keep their damned hands off the pricing and taxation of something that does not in any way, shape, or form fall under their jurisdiction. A personal vaporizer is NOT A TOBACCO CIGARETTE! A personal vaporizer IS NOT A BOTTLE OF ALCOHOL! END OF DISCUSSION!

I'm sick of the government trying to shove their personal products down my throat when I can find better, cheaper, and more effective items elsewhere besides the shelves of stores they choose to sell their wares. If I prefer to order my e-liquid from a small-time business owner because he does a great job in mixing the liquids to my satisfaction and gives a list of everything in the liquid without having been asked for or demanded of him, then that is my choice! It's not the government's choice! I am an adult and it's about g-damned time the government begins treating those of us over the age of 21 (I would go so far as to say over the age of 18 because if you can fight and die for your country you should be able to have a beer, smoke a cigarette, or use an E-cig device!!!!) then it's my business and my business alone!

Didn't mean to get off on a rant here but I don't see this as a win. I see this decision as an opening and revolving door of what is to come for e-cigarettes just as it did for traditional cigarettes. The next thing you know, RJ Reynolds will be selling E-cigs smothering the little guy out, the little guy who started the safer e-cig in the first place, only to have the big tobacco take over then charge the hell out of us to the point where just as with tobacco cigarettes, we won't be able to afford the liquid nor will we be able to control the lack of carcinogens that are stuffed into their liquids without our knowledge.

I like and truly enjoy the ability to breath again without wheezes or the constant outbreak of bronchitis, which I fought against constantly and constantly lost. It has been almost 2 years since I had a bout with bronchitis. I was able to breath well and my sense of taste and smell came back within 3 weeks after I gave up tobacco cigarettes for e-cigarettes. MOF, I don't even buy the tobacco flavored liquid. I buy the dessert (exotic flavored) liquids such as Marshmallow and Cotton Candy. I like cherry too but it's not easy to find a candy-flavored cherry flavoring without it turning or changing to a medicinal taste.. so I gave up and stick with my staples...

Again, forgive the rant. I just don't see this as a good thing. I see this as a sign of trouble that we will have battle even harder and will likely lose it all in the future after big tobacco and the FDA get into bed with each other over E-cigs and the liquids we use.

By MICHAEL FELBERBAUM AP Tobacco Writer

RICHMOND, Va. April 25, 2011 (AP)

The Food and Drug Administration said Monday it plans to regulate smokeless electronic cigarettes as tobacco products and won't try to regulate them under stricter rules for drug-delivery devices.

The federal agency said in a letter to stakeholders Monday that it intends to propose rule changes to treat e-cigarettes the same traditional cigarettes and other tobacco products.

The news is considered a victory for makers and distributors of the devices, which continue to gain popularity worldwide.

E-cigarettes are plastic and metal devices that heat a liquid nicotine solution in a disposable cartridge, creating vapor that the "smoker" inhales. A tiny light on the tip even glows like a real cigarette.

Users and distributors say e-cigarettes address both the nicotine addiction and the behavioral aspects of smoking — the holding of the cigarette, the puffing, seeing the smoke come out and the hand motion — without the more than 4,000 chemicals found in cigarettes.

First marketed overseas in 2002, e-cigarettes didn't become easily available in the U.S. until late 2006. Now, the industry has grown from the thousands of users in 2006 to several million worldwide, with tens of thousands new e-smokers every week.

No timeline has been set on the proposed rule changes.

The FDA said e-cigarettes could still be regulated as drugs or drug-delivery devices if they are "marketed for therapeutic purposes," — for example, as a stop-smoking aid.

Jason Healy, president of e-cigarette maker Blu Cigs, called the news a good first step, but said the pending rule changes will be more beneficial for "weeding out the shady companies."

Right now, "you can potentially sell snake oil," Healy said.

Nearly 46 million Americans smoke cigarettes. About 40 percent try to quit each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But unlike nicotine patches or gums, e-smokes have operated in a legal gray area.

The FDA lost a court case last year after trying to treat e-cigarettes as drug-delivery devices, rather than tobacco products, because e-cigarettes heat nicotine extracted from tobacco. It had until Monday to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In December, a federal appeals court ruled electronic cigarettes should be regulated as tobacco products by the FDA rather than as drug-delivery devices, which have more stringent requirements such as expensive clinical trials to prove the products are safe and effective as a stop-smoking aid.

Some sellers of e-cigarettes sued the FDA in 2009 after the agency told customs officials to refuse entry of shipments into the U.S. A federal judge ruled that the FDA can't stop those shipments, saying the agency had overstepped its authority.

Last September, the FDA issued warning letters to several makers of electronic cigarettes or its components, saying the companies are violating the law with unsubstantiated health claims and poor manufacturing practices.

The FDA also had said that its tests found the liquid in some electronic cigarettes contained toxic substances — besides nicotine, which is itself toxic in large doses — as well as carcinogens that occur naturally in tobacco. Most e-cigarettes are imported from overseas.

However, some public health experts say the level of those carcinogens was comparable to those found in nicotine replacement therapy, because the nicotine in all of the products is extracted from tobacco.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13453151

*****

In short, this is great news - for now - essentially the FDA publicly announced that it is conceding to Njoy's victory in the lawsuit, and will NOT be filing a petition for review by the Supreme Court.

I'm sure there are other battles ahead, particularly what type of regulation they will conjure up. My guess is it's going to be very strict and the strong will survive the weak. I have no doubt the FDA will start targeting small operation liquid makers. Doesn't mean they'll be closed down, just mean they may have to setup facilities following strict FDA guidelines. (Which for the consumer is a good thing)

Regardless for now, this is good news.

Thanks to Mark for being the first one to make me aware this was in the press today.

[TheVaporShoppe]

I got a call from USPS on Monday asking me all kinds of questions about the products I am mailing to customers (ecigs and eliquids.) I guess they scanned some of my packages and opened one up. It was really odd. She started quoting a recent memo to postal employees regarding the illegal mailing of tobacco products. So of course we got into a debate about nicotine and wether my products contain tobacco. Eventually, I used the verbiage in the memo to quell her and she said she would get back to me as her memo did not specifically address "ecigs" or "nicotine."

The timing seemed really odd though. Never had a problem, then ecigs become a "tobacco regulated product" and the postal service swoops in. Will post an update if I get a call from them again.