My Uncle Overdosed Using An E Cig.

[CASEACE79]

I talked to my father the other day and come to find out that my uncle overdosed using an e cig. He went to the ER complaining of chest pain and severe skin irritation. The doctors said that he overdosed. On what I don't know. Sorry I don't have all the details. It was a relatively short conversation. My step mother went on to say that the FDA really needs to regulate e cigs and of course that caused a debate where she brought up that we don't know what the Chinese put in it and poisons have been found in some samples. I told her that most of the liquid we use now is all from FDA approved items like loranns food flavorings and vegetable glycerin and that the poison was found in 1 sample. I asked for her to think about it logically. Cigarettes contain over 4,000 different chemicals and electronic cigarettes contain 3 or 4. While not smoking will always be the healthiest alternative which would you rather do inhale vapor or smoke. She said that until the FDA approves it she isn't going to touch it. My father has since stopped using the eGo I sent him for xmas because he doesn't want to overdose. All of this may sound absurd but I can understand where he is coming from. My father has MS and 2 yrs ago doctors put him on pain meds in such high doses that using the medication as prescribed led to him having an overdose and being in a coma for 10 weeks. I personally don't think that my uncle actually overdosed on nicotine or any of the other ******** they fed him. He had only been using it a week and the doctors probably asked him the normal questions. Have you changed your eating habits? And other ?'s leading him to talk about the e cig. Out of ignorance the doctors not really knowing what was really wrong with him attributed it to his e cig usage.

Here's my question for the community. What effect if any do you think the ignorance of so called medical professionals will have on legislation to approve a ban of e cig distribution? And here is the nail in the coffin. This incident happened in NY of all places.

[juliery]

This is exactly the kind of story the FDA and the pro banning people would LOVE. Of course it is totally illogical because you can also get sick from smoking. People who smoke clog up their airways and blood stream with smoke and poison and have heart attacks as a direct result of smoking every day. So obviously removing thousands of chemicals is the far safer option. BUT as you said, from all the misinformation and flat out BS, people when upset will jump to all kinds of crazy conclusions. I hope if your dad isn't vaping that he didn't go back to smoking...because while your uncle may have had some kind of reaction, he didn't die, AND if your father continues smoking he most likely eventually will have some kind of smoking related illness...it is a question of time. Why your dad would stop if he has had no problems I don't get. I mean WE KNOW what is in cigarettes and we KNOW it is dangerous. So I would always go with the most logical, safer choice. I have never claimed that vaping is 100% safe, but NOTHING is 100% safe. Driving down the street to get a gallon of milk isn't totally safe. So to me it is a logic issue. Excessive use of nicotine CAN cause a rapid heartbeat, chest pains, etc. But it will go away by stopping the consumption of nicotine. People have had these reactions using lozenges, gum, patch, and of course smoking too. In fact, RIGHT on the patches and all those stop smoking aids, there are warnings about all those things. So consuming nicotine in any manner can cause those symptoms. As far as the skin reaction, you can have a sensitivity to ANYthing....I mean people are allergic or sensitive to latex gloves...you can have sensitivity to PG, VG, the food flavoring and any other substance on the face of the earth.

So of course the pro ban people will say EXACTLY what your parents are saying because naturally they want to get people to THINK this might be dangerous for some people. BUT I am an adult. I know that smoking is almost GUARANTEED to kill me, in some way, at some time, if I continue smoking 2-3ppd.....so as an adult I feel that I should be making the CHOICE of which products I choose to use. We don't know what is in EVERY nic liquid, and personally I would LOVE if it was made in the USA and there was a level of quality control we would feel more assured of. HOWEVER, knowing what is in cigarettes compared to what MIGHT be in the e cig....I will take my chances. For one thing I know right away I am getting rid of the danger of all the respiratory issues by vaping since there is no smoke inhaled that I am filling my lungs and airways with.

But to answer your question....how will this affect these things....it depends who is interpreting such information. Where there blood tests showing that there was some high level of nicotine in his blood? All these same symptoms could be caused by eating all kinds of things too. I have had rashes on my chest and a pounding heartbeat, in NO WAY related to smoking OR vaping. There are tons of things that can cause those symptoms.....including numerous medications, vitamins, over the counter cold and allergy meds and so many other things it is nearly impossible to list them all. I find it hard to believe that it is from the vaping IF he has been vaping. For one thing, the nic level in the juice is NOT what you are actually getting into your body. You get far less nicotine vaping than smoking. I have smoked like really excessively when nervous and/or upset and made myself dizzy, lightheaded, pounding heartbeat and sick to my stomach......I never went to the hospital, I knew I had been chain smoking and so I just stopped smoking for a bit and it all subsided. I have also gotten nervous and gotten hives....from nerves....calm down and they go away. So first someone would have to show me that NOTHING else could have caused this problem and then show me blood tests where he had some sort of level of nicotine that caused this. BUT, it could be it was from vaping...he could have sensitivity to any of what is in there....>BUT then show me in the entire vaping community how many people this has happened to. Compare that to the percentage of smokers that get sick and DIE as a direct result of smoking. I will take my chances with vaping. I think the entire thing with the ban is WE ARE ADULTS....we should be FREE TO CHOOSE. If your dad and uncle know all the same information and choose to smoke, then that is THEIR choice. But I shouldn't have something taken away from me, just because some other person had a problem with it. Plus, I don't know what he was doing...maybe he was using some 36mg liquid, whereas I never go over 18mg.....or he was chain vaping....plus I don't know his age and medical history etc. There are just way too many variables involved.

Good for YOU that you had a logical argument....it makes NO sense to consume an item that we KNOW contains dozens of carcinogens and other poisonous substances over something that MIGHT have trace amounts of something. Plus just because one person has a problem with something doesn't mean another will. Just like the people who have a problem with the PG and use VG....okay, I don't have a problem with the pg, so just because one person has a problem doesn't mean everyone will.....both pg and vg in general are safe. And even with sensitivity like a rash, or whatever....that can hardly be compared to emphysema or cancer. If vaping gave me a rash, I would still do it....better to have a rash and be alive than not have one and be dead. Anyway, I understand when people are scared and stressed they don't really think things all the way through very logically.....most people are shook up and making compulsive and reactive decisions without really thinking. SO maybe with time and your logic, your dad will realize that first of all, there is no real PROOF that this was from vaping and not something he ate, or a rash can be from a new clothing detergent or fabric softener or a million other things.....and even IF it was, doesn't mean it would ever do anything to your dad. As long as you keep vaping, because you are being logical. But personally, unless they PROVE that this was a nicotine overdose, I don't really buy it. and if it is that is something easily avoided....be careful how much nic you are using and if you are chain vaping, you have to be aware of the feeling when you are doing it too much....happens to me all the time because I am a chain vaper too. I hope your uncle is okay now! Sorry for rambling.

[easilyamused]

chest pain and skin irritation...

the chest pain i can totally see if he is trying to vape as he would normally smoke, especially if he was using a high nic lvl...

the skin irritation? is that a reaction to the PG? or did he get some of the juice on his skin, as some of us have done from time to time... and eeeek if you rub your eyes after topping off a carto, as i have discovered.

i do remember when i was using the crap from china that came with my 1st e cig it did make me feel ill, so i never use anything from china, i dont trust that they are careful about what goes in it...

anyone who has ever tried nic gum will tell you that if you chew it like you would normal gum it will cause chest pains, rapid heart beat, nausea and other side effects, so again i wonder about nic lvl...

i guess i personally would find be interested as to what the uncles condition was, if it required any medical intervention etc, or did it end up being simply a case of angina which is commonly associated with stress in even non smokers

[Nanna]

Certainly, chest pain can be a result of nicotine overdose. They even warn you about that with nicotine patches and gum. Or, for that matter, smoking. Does anyone remember when we were kids and started smoking and got "smoke sick"? Yuck - after all these years, I still remember that feeling.But to blame it on "e-cigarettes are bad" is irresponsible, in my opinion. And I'm a nurse.

The skin irritation - wow. Who knows? A PG sensitivity perhaps? Skin irritation generally comes, as others have said, from direct contact.

This is frustrating. I'm all for monitoring and all that but come on. How is VAPING dangerous while all the other nicotine replacement products laudable?

[Beans]

First of all, I'm sorry for your families health problems. I hope all gets or has gotten resolved. I would really like to know about the test results / blood results. Did he really OD? Could he have accidentally swallowed too much? That has happened too me. Could it have been bad juice? Or related to other health issues. (after smoking we all have some) Maybe allergic reactions like others said?

Thank you for posting this and again I'm sorry for your family. Please keep us informed.

[juliery]

chest pain and skin irritation...

i do remember when i was using the crap from china that came with my 1st e cig it did make me feel ill, so i never use anything from china, i dont trust that they are careful about what goes in it...

anyone who has ever tried nic gum will tell you that if you chew it like you would normal gum it will cause chest pains, rapid heart beat, nausea and other side effects, so again i wonder about nic lvl...

i guess i personally would find be interested as to what the uncles condition was, if it required any medical intervention etc, or did it end up being simply a case of angina which is commonly associated with stress in even non smokers

All the nic juice comes from China....even all the products that are "made in the USA"....only 70% of a product has to be made here to call itself "made in the USA".....and that includes the work of mixing it...but the pg/vg can easily be from the US, as can the food flavoring....but the nic juice is all from China.....no company here is extracting nicotine from tobacco (at least not that I last checked) and therein lie most of the concerns. Since we know quality control is awful in China. So even the liquid you buy here that is already cut with pg and or vg...the original nic liquid is from china.

But as far as the uncle's condition.....there are SOOOO many things that could cause those symptoms, and of course excess nic consumption can be one of those things...I have felt that way using the nic patch and in fact it says that stuff right in all the warnings on all those products. that rapid heartbeat, sweating, all kinds of stuff can happen from having too much nic in your bloodstream at once or suddenly. BUT of course ALL those same things can happen by smoking too much too. I also think it would depend on a variety of other factors as well....someone who has any kind of cardio issues would be more prone to such a reaction. But if he is a normal healthy person with no medical problems I have never heard of nicotine actually harming a person...it is more just that it could scare you....just like when people have panic/anxiety attacks and think they are having a heart attack.. There is no actual harm or problem. IF those cardio symptoms WERE from the vaping/nic, then they should have subsided very quickly after not vaping.....unless of course he started to panic and basically kept it going by being scared. I can't even imagine how much nic you would need to consume in order for it to show up in a blood test, considering you would have to get to the ER, and it takes a little time to get the labwork ordered, drawn, etc. By then you would think the nic level would have subsided. I know when I have had that from the nic patch, I have taken it off and within like 30 minutes felt entirely fine. If a doctor "diagnosed" this overdose WITHOUT labwork supporting it, that would be VERY irresponsible. I assume that the uncle isn't going to resume cigarette smoking......if for some reason he has developed a sensitivity to nicotine he would be far more likely to have the angina type attacks while smoking since a far higher dose of nic is delivered than with vaping. I would hope that no one would go back to smoking with the belief it is safer than vaping. I could understand if someone got scared and decided to do neither but to go back to using something that you KNOW is full of poisons seems a bit illogical. Plus just because something like that happened once doesn't mean it would EVER happen again. Like when I had that problem with the patch, I didn't stop using it totally....I just made sure to have food in my stomach, etc. as you will react a lot more strongly to stimulants like caffeine and nicotine on an empty stomach. I have had the pounding chest pain after drinking too much coffee on an empty stomach too.

[Uma]

Wow, sorry to hear about your Dad's scare and ordeal.

All the theories by the posters sound feasible.

Another thought that might be worth mentioning, so I will, is that some smokers actually recieve similiar reactions when they go cold turkey. (chest pains).

The rash could be a sign of allergies. A nice VG mix might be okay for him. It's sad to think he'd have to continue with smokes if he gives up on vaping. Goodprophets.com has a good VG line with decent flavors. (they've pretty much mastered the Thin VG line. It's difficult retaining flavor and vapor when thinned for carto's and JB's, but they did pretty darn good!!).

Thoughts and prayers to you and your family. I hope the Dr. see's the limits of his observational questions and digs a little deeper for answers.

[DannyBoyfromWashington]

I think that switching to e-cigs and stoping analogs probably started clearing the poisons out of his system , which led to his system starting to perform more normaly, which led to him not needing as much of the drugs the doctors were giving him, which led to him overdosing on the drugs "They" prescribed :P There, take that you irresponsible doctors!

[DAYVAPE]

There's MORE to this story than we all know....

[maverick]

There's MORE to this story than we all know....

Would place that in total realm of possibility. .

[GPurv]

All of my doctors and surgeons love PVs. Even while in the hospital last Dec, I not only vaped the entire time but handed out vendor cards to nurses that wanted to buy a PV for their family member(s) or themselves. You wouldn't BELIEVE how many nurses smoke analogs.

[schotzky]

Some times I do feel a little sick after I vape a lot in one sitting. If I get a few new flavors and I try them all too fast I'll feel tired and get a little bit of a stomach ache. I'm assuming its because I'm ingesting too much nicotine too fast. If I stop for a little bit I do feel better. If you feel ill effects too fast it's probably because you are using too high of a nicotine level and or vaping a too fast. I also avoid using Chinese made e-liquid and products. I don't trust the Chinese, you don't know what they are putting into it. However I don't trust the USDA or FDA either, but I feel more comfortable purchasing liquid from US or UK vendors. Making your own liquid is also another viable option. You can customize it as far as flavor, nicotine content, and PG VG mix goes. It is also cheaper than buying pre-made liquid. Some people are allergic or sensitive to PG so using a pure VG juice is more suitable.

[CASEACE79]

Lets wrap this up. Come to find out about a yr. later that he's a highly functioning, multi millionaire drug addict that just so happened that he didn't want to tell the doctors that he had taken his dogs pain medication. Since the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him they blamed it on vaping. Ignorance pisses me off to no end.

[Jeffb]

Thanks for the update CASE

[CASEACE79]

Just pissed me off jeffb that we as vapers took the fall. Not to mention that if another person comes in with a similar condition and they are vapers that there is now documented precedence. Grrr!!!

[richj]

If it caused skin arritation, it probably is an allergic reaction to PG. Kind of ignorant for her to say that these liquids all come from China.

But i agree that most doctors don't really look into ecigs and claim that it's bad for you because they don't know much about it. My friend told me today that his doctor told him that ecigs were only a "little" better for you than real cigarettes. That's absurd.

[Love2VapeDaily]

I checked my self into the Emergency Room today. While I was there I asked the attending doctor on his thoughts about e cigarettes. To my surprise he said it its much better than analogs, does not show to cause any cancer but the best thing its to not smoke at all. Congratulated me on giving up analogs and asked how long I have vaped.

[Synther]

I checked my self into the Emergency Room today. While I was there I asked the attending doctor on his thoughts about e cigarettes. To my surprise he said it its much better than analogs, does not show to cause any cancer but the best thing its to not smoke at all. Congratulated me on giving up analogs and asked how long I have vaped.

I had the exact same experience this week when I had to go to the doctor for back problems. All three doctors I talked to congratulated me on quitting analogs and said that eCigs were much better for you.

[Love2VapeDaily]

Maybe I should have had him write it on my discharge papers so next time someone argues about the safety of e cigs I could show them a E.r doctors pov

[ArnieH]

Education is the key, Medical professionals, law makers, the public, etc.

One thing I'd like to note, and I am not defending cigarretes, is that after an exhaustive search on the internet, I have never been able to locate a single document containing a full list of the "4,000-7,000) (the number varies) chemical compounds produced from the combustion of tobacco cigarettes. What you WILL find is a list of the 600 or so additives that have reportedly been used by a few of the tobacco companies in the US over the years, and it is unlikely that anyone cigarette contains all 600 additives. But of course this is only what has been disclosed by the participating companies.

I would very much like to find this comprehensive list, as it would be great ammunition both for health agencies and the vaping community, Of course, it may just not be available online, or it may be located in some scientific or medical journal. But if this big list did exist, you'd think that people would post it. I am starting to think it is something of a boogeyman though. This of course does not diminish the deadliness of cigarettes. But I have stop referencing this number, until I actually see it.

Edited July 22, 2013 by ArnieH

[Uma]

Here's one. I don't know how correct it is. Cigarette ingredients

[Christie]

Sounds like the guy who ate so much microwave popcorn and made himself so sick.Then he sued.

people over indulge in things and then blame everyone else because they are glutinous .

[Love2VapeDaily]

or the dumb *** at mcdonalds that spilled hot coffee in their lap and then sued mcdonalds.

[Bradb2014]

well now the story on mcdonalds was that many many MANY people complained for many many months/years that mcdonalds coffee was too hot and they never did anything about it...no warning cups, no signs thru the drive through...so after enough complaints/failed lawsuits and the fact that the lady (who ended up actually winning the first lawsuit) had vaginal burns(and will never be the same down there) they used her to set an example for mcdonalds...they had months if not years of complaining about no warning signs and too hot of coffee...just saying, mcdonalds being sued was the right move there...only to set an example of how customers need to be safely served anywhere they go. -kind of off topic but just needed to put that out there lol

[Christie]

well now the story on mcdonalds was that many many MANY people complained for many many months/years that mcdonalds coffee was too hot and they never did anything about it...no warning cups, no signs thru the drive through...so after enough complaints/failed lawsuits and the fact that the lady (who ended up actually winning the first lawsuit) had vaginal burns(and will never be the same down there) they used her to set an example for mcdonalds...they had months if not years of complaining about no warning signs and too hot of coffee...just saying, mcdonalds being sued was the right move there...only to set an example of how customers need to be safely served anywhere they go. -kind of off topic but just needed to put that out there lol

I dont know- Ive been drinking their coffee for 20 plus years and as clumsy as I am managed to never spill it on myself. mainly because I practice due diligence .if you know a beverage is supposed to be hot like coffee , you are careful with i t. you wouldn't place a bowel of hot chili in your lap while your driving , because that would be be retarded .If someone is trying to drive ,hold a cup and not spill it and god knows knows what else people are trying to do in the car picking up food through the drive through, It stands to reason that at some point something is going to give -evidently it was that cup which probably got squeezed causing the lid to pop off and spill the contents .The extent of the woman's injuries ,while I do sympathize with , are irrelevant ,she did them to herself SHE spilled the coffee.

I get my coffee in the morning a lot .I go to starbucks and I use my own cup.they wait till I pull around I pay hand them the cup and they hand it back filled . I always place it in the cup holder and check to see if the lid is on correctly -why? to be certain it doent spill.(due diligence )