Can Taste Be Objective?

[CASEACE79]

I happened on this question while reading a juice review and got upset that everyone was giving the original poster a hard time for their opinion. Is there an objectivity to taste? This idea nearly drove me crazy! I have come to the conclusion that taste is both subjective and objective.

If taste was completely subjective then why do juice reviews??? If our opinion carries no weight then why do it? To further compound the issue how would you rate or grade a juice if it was completely subjective? Something that is a 5 out of 10 to you might be a 2 out of 10 for someone else. The idea of pure subjectivity doesn't give any of those numbers substantial meaning or worth. How is anyone supposed to decide if a juice is for them if it is purely subjective?

Is taste purely objective? Of course not! We all know that. Otherwise we would all love the same thing. So taste has to be subjective then right?

Lets use food as an example since when describing taste that's what everyone has in common. Is it fair to say that the majority of us like pizza? Then wouldn't it be a safe bet to say that we could recommend pizza to anyone who hasn't tried it with a 99% certainty that they would enjoy it? Now lets take a burnt cheeseburger. When I say burnt I mean charcoal. I mean it could break a window. Could you tell someone with confidence that they will not like it with 99% certainty? With that said we now have a system where we can be objective about taste. You can say that yes that is true but there is such a wide range between the two. Yeah but the middle is much smaller. When we really like a juice its safe to say that the majority will like it? When we really dislike a juice it's safe to say that the majority will also hate it. That's why our grading system of juices works.It's the same reason we have cooking schools or restaurants that have month long reservation lists. If taste was completely subjective we wouldn't have the ry4's,Atomic Cinnacide's,Dulcis',and Bobas Bounty at the top of so many lists.

Science even proves that taste does have a level of objectivity. To understand what tastes good something must taste bad. Otherwise we have no point of reference which to base what good is. It is defined by what it is not.

Which leads me to Honey Beez debate. Yes I'm going there! Every once in awhile there comes a flavor people either love or hate. Same goes for food. Best example I can think of is sushi. Very rarely do you meet anyone that says it's just ok.

So why bring all this up? What was the point other than to make a point? To give value to our reviews and if we really like something that it is ok not to preface it with taste is completely subjective because it isn't. More importantly this message was to JUICE SUPPLIERS!!!!

I have seen a trend lately of quantity over quality and honestly I'm tired of buying juices that taste nothing like their name or description. We wouldn't except this in food and shouldn't have to in vaping.Think of it like running a restaurant and if you couldn't put it on a menu with a description that is true or couldn't put it on the menu because it doesn't meet your expectations then don't put it on the menu at all. Some suppliers understand this and have very few but very tasty juices. Vaportalk, Tasty Vapor, Alien Visions, and Vaperite should be applauded for understanding that putting out a quality product will bring people back time and time again.

So while taste can be subjective it is only subjective to a point. Without an understanding of objectivity in taste we wouldn't be able to rate juices or even be able to differentiate the difference between what tastes good or bad. Reviewers take pride in your preferences! They do mean something.I'll keep watching and trusting in what you do. Lastly to suppliers STOP making sub par juices that even you wouldn't vape. Take pride in the flavors you create. It's what defines who you are. Those who do will get my business over and over again!

[Jolly]

while i cant dismiss this post i don't totally agree.

to cut it short, if a juice didn't sell they wouldnt stock it.

if i ran a store and hated honeybeez but others bought it, i would keep selling it.

the simple truth is, just because others with loud voices say "this is nasty" doesn't mean that their aren't 1,000x more people, than those that don't like it, buying it.

prime example: i think dulcis is horrid. flat out unvapable. yet, that stuff is sold out of the store quicker than me leaving the house for a booty call.

[AimeeG]

To tag along with Jolly: while I am one of those people who helps sell out Dulcis on a regular basis, I cannot taste anything, and I mean anything, in Boba's Bounty. It tastes like nothing to me. It's not unvapable, just a "meh, why bother?" liquid to me.

Overall, though, I think you make an excellent point, though, Case, +1 for you.

[CASEACE79]

The problem is vewing taste as a whole. Not our personal preferences. Yes I may not like Bobas or Dulcis but it is safe to say that the majority will because taste has objectivity. Use my burnt cheeseburger analogy. Say you were the only person on the planet that likes burnt cheeseburgers and you knew for a fact that everyone else on the planet had tried it and hated it except this one guy. This guy asks you if he will like it. What would you say? You can say with 99% certainty that this guy will like it. Thats why we can make reccomendations for people and still not care for it. Even if I hate Italian food I can still make a suggestion based on other peoples opinion. That means that taste can not be purely subjective.

[mcquinn]

It is a little frustrating to diligantly read and watch all the reveiws before commiting your hard earned coin on an unknown quantity.I like the vendors with little sample bottles so I don't get stuck with a lot of nasty or unflavored liquid.It is odd how some people can say a liquid was too strong and when I try it I can't taste anything ,like the Bobas mentioned earlier.Oh well it keeps it interesting.

[Uma]

<--- loves slightly burnt hamburgers off the grill. Also must have the buns crispy brown and black around the edges. But, Brick hard burnt? No thanks!

I agree with your thoughts, your post. But there are times when subjective rules because our objective tastebuds have taken a bonker trip and have become distrusting. Suddenly, without notice, they've become exaggerated, dull, meh', blank, ... and some eliquids are dull the first day and delicious or wild the next. It's a difficult line to try to cross with adamant certainty.

[Jeffb]

I wouldnt purchase a new e-juice based on just one review because I don't believe it can be objective. Taste by its very nature is subjective. I play the odds. If the majority of the reviews are positive and its a flavor I am interested in then I will purchase it. That being said, Halo juices usually get good reviews and I dont like them at all.

[Brian]

Meh. Reviews are reviews of what one person likes or doesn't like. Many rave about Vaperite organic juices - I don't like them. I've tried Dulcis a few times and never cared for it. Oddly, I pulled out a bottle the other day and suddenly I love it. Vaped up two bottles of it in 10 days. I just saw a post where someone said the hated VT Tobacco, which has been my staple since I started vaping. A few of us think VT Butterscotch tastes like warm milk, but others have said it's a perfect butterscotch flavor.

FYI - This is coming from someone who has never been a big pizza fan and likes burned meat.

[juliery]

A lot of this has to do with taste buds....about 25% of the population are "non-tasters" which means they have roughly 25% fewer taste buds....they would need a MUCH stronger flavor in order to not say, "eh"....then 25% of the population that are "super-tasters" which means they have 25% more taste buds, so they need far less flavor in order for something to have a distinctive taste....then you have the 50% which are the medium tasters. THEN the other part of taste has to do with our brains....how much our brain reads the signal from our tongue/taste buds. The ability to taste also has to do with our ability to smell. Plug your nose totally while vaping, inhale, exhale and you taste nothing. So that figures into things. There are so many variables that go into taste. When my husband and I first started vaping, we looked on various sites where they have a "best sellers" list and you can read tons of reviews. We ordered caramel machiatto(sp??), RY4, butterscotch, vanilla ice cream and various other flavors from several vendors, and we hated every single one of them. I especially hate the sweet flavors. I have tried RY4 from about 6-8 vendors and hated every single one of them. They didn't all taste exactly the same, but they were all overpoweringly sweet. The butterscotch and vanilla, I literally had to brush my teeth, the taste was so horrible to me. So we ordered other flavors that people gave great reviews and we looked on youtube and we finally stopped doing it because we concluded that obviously these ppl liked something entirely different than we did.

Funny about the burnt cheeseburger...my MIL eats her burgers burnt....like we are all done eating by the time hers is even done cooking. It is so hard I don't know how she even chews the damn thing. I don't know that it is actually as hard as a rock, but I wouldn't be able to eat it, it is just sooooo hard on the outside and black and just gross looking. On the other hand, I would be happy to eat it raw and I LOVE steak tartare made with 99% lean sirloin. I eat all red meat as rare as it can be....like give me a filet with just some grill marks on it. Some barely seared sushi grade ahi tuna, YUM. Other people think that stuff is gross and my husband would die before he would touch either.

So personally, I think taste is more subjective than objective. I don't read restaurant reviews anymore because 9 times out of 10 I am very disappointed. I read them more just to get an idea of what the place is like vs what the food quality is. Taste is so individual, and determined by so many physical variables. So to me what would be MORE meaningful as far as a "bestseller" list is a "repeat buyer" list.....just because they sell a lot of it doesn't mean it is all being happily consumed. It could be ending up in a ditched pile like so much of our liquid. I wonder how many people buy things like we did because people said how great it was, and/or it was on some bestseller list but then never bought it again. It would be possibly more useful to have a list, for instance, stating that 100 different people bought this and of them 23 bought it again. Of course I realize that would require calculation and effort that probably no one wants to waste their time doing. I now will only try a liquid if I can buy it in 5ml or smaller OR the price of it is low enough that if I hate it I won't be upset about wasting the money.

I ONLY vape one flavor because of the 100+ we have tried it is the only flavor I like. My husband always complains because I am VERY picky about food. I like a lot of foods, BUT they have to be prepared in very specific ways. Like vegetables, if they are mushy or overcooked I won't eat them. Like with frozen or fresh veggies I boil them and the minute the water starts boiling they are done. I won't eat meat and vegetables on the same plate...they have to be separate. I also don't like take a bite of meat, then potato, then veggie. I eat ALL the meat first, then the vegetable, usually then I am full, but if it is some small amount then I will eat the potato or rice or whatever. But I cannot mix the food tastes together, it totally disgusts me. Can't stand it. I can't stand cheese on a vegetable either...I like cheese and I like broccoli, but I HATE them together, tastes terrible to me. For the same reason I do not eat stew or anything where the meat is cooked together with the veggies....I hate the taste even if I love all the individual ingredients on their own. I also could never eat a dessert immediately following regular type food....can't stand how it tastes. Anyway, I think taste is very subjective, or at least it is to me.

So I have reached this conclusion.....if you are a medium taster and another medium taster is doing the review, the odds are you will generally agree with that opinion. If you are a super taster and a super taster does the review, the odds are you will generally agree with them. Same for non taster. BUT there are also degrees.....like you could have someone who is medium, but on the lower end toward the non taster. So the reviews by people who I have NO idea what kinds of things they like, forget it. BUT if I sort of know in general what types of things they like, I can form a little bit better opinion.

We now have way more liquid in the discard pile than we have in the use pile. I finally went through it all to bring to the Windy City meeting next month....I was shocked at how little we have that we will use as compared to what we will not. Anyway, now I just know it is an experiment.