LaceyUnderall

I find it interesting that they "think" there is PG in the ecig. We know there is PG in it.

Totally agree with you 100%.

Please don't get me started on energy drinks or caffeine alone when it comes to children. If it weren't for those products, there would be a much lower need for meds to combat this ever growing attention deficit problem we are facing. What those kids need are better diets and longer time on the playground! It really is a shame that so much corruption surrounds the FDA. When you look back to the beginning of the FDA and some of the incidents it thwarted, it truly is a much needed agency. But, what has happened is that the FDA has been given too much power and now, can't afford to run on government funds alone and THAT is where corruption is able to sneak in. Once you have the people you are approving, footing the bill, well as Karate says, it's all about the money. One thing is for certain, we all have to make our voices very loud so that others are very aware of what is happening with here. Put the ecig aside for a minute... Things have gotten very bad and I certainly do not think that our forefathers ever had this in mind. The people have risen before and been heard. There is no reason it can't happen again and frankly, it is time.

In a recent research session for a blog post I ran across some interesting information regarding lobelia inflata... which acts the same as nicotine. Now, while nicotine is not specifically mentioned anywhere on the FDA website accept in reference to gum, patches, the inhaler, and now e-cigarette warnings, they do specifically discuss lobelia inflata. From my post: http://www.e-cig.org/2009/08/18/its-not-about-quitting-its-about-an-alternative-with-the-electronic-cigarette/ "Keeping this idea in mind that products can be on the market without FDA regulation, lets look at nicotine. Currently, there is nothing contained within the FDA website referring to nicotine. However, there is a plant out there that has many of the same effects as nicotine and that is lobelia inflata which IS specifically mentioned on the FDA website. The FDA notes in Sec. 310.544 Drug products containing active ingredients offered over-the-counter (OTC) for use as a smoking deterrent, that “Any OTC drug product that is labeled, represented, or promoted as a smoking deterrent is regarded as a new drug within the meaning of section 201(p) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the act), for which an approved application or abbreviated application under section 505 of the act and part 314 of this chapter is required for marketing.” But what happens if these claims are not to be made and the product clearly states that this product has not been evaluated by the FDA?" **** What this all comes down to is claims. Plain and simple. The FDA's website is covered in claims, claims, claims. IF this isn't the case and the FDA and government officials could just ban on a free whim, they wouldn't only have to ban the electronic cigarette, but they COULD ban all non-FDA approved vitamins, caffeine pills, COFFEE, SODA, cigarettes, EVERYTHING. Anything that contains a drug COULD be removed from the market. You are certainly right Karate. This is an extremely slippery slope and one that could lead to a total domination by the FDA and their "suitors". The free market as we know it, would cease to exist and I fear for research and technology advancements not only in drugs but also in devices. It is imperative that the ecig does not get banned. It sets precendent that ANYTHING, even things not making claims can be removed from the market without justification.

So far so good. In a nutshell - The FDA wants to prove that the electronic cigarette is a drug delivery device and that the liquid is a "new drug". This is why they are claiming they stopped their stuff. The issue the FDA is having is proving that claims were made that would "treat, mitigate or cure" a disease. Personally, I am not following SE at all because they are having quite a poor showing. Plus they made claims so technically, if I were a judge, I would say that the FDA was in the RIGHT for stopping their stuff. So looking at nJoy... they have made no health claims whatsoever. They have always sold their product as an alternative to tobacco and not as a quit smoking device. They are making the argument, as to which I agree, that as they aren't making claims, the FDA has no right to stop their products and should release the shipment that has been stopped. I wrote a blog about it the other day if you want to read: http://www.e-cig.org/2009/08/18/its-not-about-quitting-its-about-an-alternative-with-the-electronic-cigarette/ I have also looked into Judge Leon's background and he is a pretty fair judge, so I am really anxious to see what he does. On several occasions he has told local and federal governments that they are wrong and overturned laws and ridiculous mandates. I also can find no instance where he has ever been over turned. But... it is what it is and all any of us can do is stay positive, proactive and understand that we are YEARS away from final resolution on this. YEARS! So we should just all hang on, vape away... do what we can... and be happy

From what I have heard the FDA was asked some hard questions and they floundered. Here is a post from BLT - http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/08/lawyers-ask-judge-to-lift-ban-on-electronic-cigarettes.html We shall see... but I am keeping positive because I have done some more research on Judge Leon and he is quite impressive with his decisions. He has no problem picking the law over pressure AND has told federal and local governments that what they are doing is wrong and overturned earlier decisions. I also cannot find where he has ever been overturned.

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=c59708f4-2763-48ff-9736-34d1e850c3b7 Blumenthal Pledges Fight For A Ban On E-Cigarettes Attorney general disputes claim that smoking device safer than real thing By Brian Hallenbeck Published on 8/19/2009 State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal called on consumers and retailers Tuesday to avoid electronic cigarettes, discounting claims that the devices are safer than real cigarettes. The e-cigarettes, as they are known, are powered by batteries and produce a mist containing nicotine and propylene glycol, an organic compound. Users inhale the mist, satisfying their craving for nicotine. ”I will vigorously fight to ban e-cigarettes, unless approved by FDA, and any attempt to retail the devices in Connecticut, as well as work with federal authorities to regulate Internet sales,” Blumenthal said at a press conference in Hartford. He cited the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's finding last month that two brands of e-cigarettes, Smoking Everywhere and NJoy, contain known carcinogens. An antifreeze ingredient, diethylene glycol, was found in a Smoking Everywhere cartridge. Despite such warnings, some users continue to swear by the devices. Jennifer Jarvis, 24, of New London, credits e-cigarettes with enabling her to break a 12-year-old smoking habit. ”I tried everything - patches, the gum - and I always went back to cigarettes within a week,” she said. “I've been using the e-cig since June and haven't touched a cigarette except to see what it would be like. I couldn't stand the smell. It was nasty.” Jarvis, who was recently laid off, said she initially invested $58 plus shipping on e-cigarette equipment, including a charger, two batteries, two “atomizers,” which heat the liquid, and 10 cartridges. She also bought two bottles of liquid, which she has yet to use up, she said. The devices are available online and at some mall kiosks, though not in Connecticut. Stephen Benitez, also 24, said he was looking for a less expensive alternative to smoking when his research led him to the device. ”I actually believe they are a safer alternative,” said Benitez, a poker dealer at Foxwoods Resort Casino and a New London resident. “The liquid is nowhere near as dangerous (as tobacco).” Benitez, who also makes his e-cigarette purchases online, said start-up costs can run as high as $150. Over the past three months, he said he's spent $30 on the liquid. Both Jarvis and Benitez said they like that the e-cigarette cartridges come in different flavors, a feature opponents like Blumenthal say can make them more attractive to underage users. ”I don't see a young person spending $150 on e-cigarettes instead of video games or something,” Benitez said. FDA warnings aside, e-cigarette users, some of whom communicate in an online forum at www.VaporTalk.com, point to physicians who have rallied behind the product, including Dr. Michael Siegel, a professor at Boston University's School of Public Health. In a blog posting Tuesday, Siegel wrote that laboratory analysis “certainly suggests that there is no major contamination of these products with carcinogens, indicating that these products are much safer than conventional cigarettes.”

That's great! I love the ape! Thank god it doesn't say anything about quitting smoking!

Prominent Public Health Physicians and Tobacco Researchers Expose Double Standard in the FDA?s Recent Study of Electronic Cigarettes and Challenge the FDA?s Alarmist Attitude Toward the Devices

http://www.ecassoc.org/response-to-the-fda/

Thank you for the "Come to Jesus" meeting as my dad would call it. A slice of reality! YES! There is stuff in the ecig! But there is also stuff in the NRT's and definitely stuff in Cigarettes! Heck, there is stuff in the air that we breathe! IMHO this is great stuff. The THR camp is going to come out fighting on this one now! Viva la ecig!

Oh... It is definitely here to stay. The question is who is going to deliver it to the masses. The pharmaceutical and tobacco industries have had a monopoly on the "quit or die" philosophy and personally, I think it is high time for a third industry to come along and change the philosophy to: "quit, reduce, or die".

AND! We can't all get too stressed. This little "storm" might actually turn into a storm they shouldn't have started. The more and more I go through other studies and the more and more I go through theirs... the stuff I find is amazing! If I, an artist by education (and I studied Art because I am not a science type...) can find these faults... then it won't be long before the pro-ecig science community finds it too. As we have seen Dr. Siegel has already pointed much of the discrepancies out! http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com. Sorry... I know it has been posted in many places but it is simply brilliant and everyone should read it!

also, feel free to use the current ECA video and there should be another one coming asap. BigJimW at ECF may be interested in participating. He is the king of ecig video statements. Also... you could broaden your tape time if you pull in some old "smoking" videos. I will look around and see what I can find. The ones I am particularly thinking of are those old "smoking are good for you" commercials. Over the next week or two, you should be able to get some good stuff as the fall out begins to occur.

Another soldier. Many thanks by the way Huge fan of the military folks. "Showing the love" is the best way to start changing public perception. Many assume we are all just blowing harmful contents into the air and therefor, we must be doing something dangerous. The more and more people see eSmoking, the harder it is going to be to fight to take it away. Imagine if 400,000 smokers (the ones who might be dead this year alone) were to switch and the death rate of smoking were to drop! When the numbers finally come out showing a drop in the death toll from tobacco cigarettes, it will be really hard to ignore the fact that the ecig had something to do with that!

It doesn't necessarily have to hold up in court. The FDA does reserve the right to use "moral" and "societal" issues when making their decisions. For instance, a bit ago, the FDA decided that they were going to ban this med that was literally only given to people on their death beds as this med had been around before the FDA. It is extremely potent, basically keeping the patient in an induced coma state until their passing. However, it was never FDA approved. After they did this, several doctors and health providers petitioned the FDA noting that this drug was really the only thing that could keep these people from dying an extremely painful death and therefor, should be allowed until something better came along. The FDA took these "testimonials" into consideration and reinstated the use of the drug. Another instance was when they were determining whether to allow the morning after pill be allowed without prescription to women under 17. The FDA determined that "children" could not make the necessary responsible deductions to use this product without the assistance of a doctor or a parent and that society shifts lead the FDA to believe that young women would actually start turning to the morning-after pill as a form of birth control. But now that we do know they have copies of the actual petition, if it ever came down to it, a good lawyer could figure out a way to get them to acknowledge that they do have testimony from e-smokers and that by banning the product, it would in fact have a detrimental affect on the current users, ie: they would be sent back smoking tobacco which for some with serious medical conditions from smoking, could be detrimental immediately and for those without serious condition, could in fact lead to the onset of serious conditions. It might not look like it now, but it is a card in the big game and it could come into play and be the winning ace... you never know

There was a push made with the petition and it was emailed by several esmokers with their testimonies to all of the Senate HELP Committee staffers and directed to two persons in the FDA. One of the persons in the FDA did respond to a couple of the emails noting that it had been received and would be taken into consideration. It also has made it onto Bill Godshall's (SmokeFree PA) email list so he blasts it out to his anti-smoking/tobacco harm reduction people on a weekly basis. The other thing we can't forget to remember is that in order for the FDA to pull anything off of the market, they have to do two things: 1. Ask for testimonials from current users and 2. Evaluate those testimonials and determine what to do. This is what Smoking Everywhere/Njoy is arguing is that the FDA did not in fact, follow their own guidelines for stopping items being sold or imported. So there is definitely a strong argument that while it may be "petition" and it won't necessarily impact the way legislation is written, it can definitely have an impact when it comes to determining a ban. 10,000 people claiming that they have "accidentally quit" smoking tobacco is very hard to dismiss and could cause a huge public uproar if the FDA does side with the pharmaceutical companies and promote a real ban of any kind.

The guys at ELiquidPlanet and ECF member Spikey as they live in the area, have actually moved Cooper to change from a full out ban including not even being able to use or possess an ecig to simply not selling to those underage and a few other minor details for use in public areas. Which is awesome! Whew! So we can all thank ELiquidPlanet and Spikey for their relentless efforts on that one because IF this had gone down in the books as a full out ban, that's how all smoking bans started their rash across the nation and you can bet your booties, others would unintelligently follow. As for this so called article, the comments made for a more informative article then the actual article. But, as I learned in an episode several months back with a "journalist" from the Denver area, he openly admitted to me that in this day and age, journalists are given a minimal time frame, and barely get paid per article and therefor, research is not a top priority. (yes... my jaw hit the floor too). Either way... these types of articles do nothing more than rally the esmokers who don't participate on forums, but do read the news and THAT is what is important! Every voice

It really is a shame that our legislators are so wrapped up in this "nicotine is addictive and therefor kills" philosophy. It isn't the nicotine. It is the combustion. Nicotine has actually had many studies done proving it can be quite helpful to many with mental disorders and also to help in cell growth. Oh well. Once the FDA realizes that when they limit the nicotine in cigarettes, this will cause the cigarette manufacturers to add more chemicals to their products in order for their customers to get the same type of buzz (which we have seen with Lights, Ultra Lights etc), maybe it will help them focus on items like e-cigarettes being the ultimate option for smokers and letting the ecig industry make itself truly known to US Smokers with an FDA stamp of approval.

Wow. A very good article. Corkem pretty much summed up every issue that there really is with the e-cig. It truly has nothing to do with the perceived health concerns. IMHO, It is a time for a shift in thinking (and an end to demonizing a group of people for an action that they can continue to do without harming those around them) and hopefully, some of these anti-ecig claims will be brought out and shown for how ridiculous they really are.

apparently, they are doing a big special tomorrow (Monday) night where they are going to announce their divorce. Either way, you can tell in some of the recent interviews that they are both hurting. Very sad.

they are smoking smartees so I wouldn't be surprised. Here's the deal with kids that I think some adults seem to forget: Some of them like to be deviant. Some of them like to get high and once they do, they will try anything in order to achieve that again. By making things illegal and impossible to get, they result in using things that they shouldn't be using, like oven cleaners, gasoline and super glue. As far as flavors: In our local grocery store, the juice box aisle is steps away from the liquor aisle (which is weird because in Indiana, kids can't go into a restaurant where they can see a bar, yet they can buy their juice boxes in the liquor aisle)... and in the liquor aisle, we were noting how colorful it is and how many different flavors there are. Personally, I don't have a problem with the juice box aisle near the liquor aisle because it makes shopping very convenient. I also don't get rip roaring drunk so I am hopefully teaching my child to drink responsibly, flavored vodka or not. And hopefully, she won't have to make a decision between tobacco and ecigs because if and when she wants to start smoking (hopefully 18+), I will happily provide her an ecig.

Sorry for the double post... but this, IMHO, would be why people are reporting a missing of something when they fully convert to e-cigs. It is hard for me to believe that with all of these "chemicals" we don't go through withdrawl of these. We know with our e-cigs that we are getting our nicotine... but what else is missing? Arsenic perhaps? Hence it also being so easy to go completely e-cig and find yourself after getting over the initial taste of a tobacco cig, going right back to smoking analogues no problem.

American Spirits are probably as close as you can get off the shelf at the local gas station.

Someone made a good point somewhere else regarding the silly idea that adults don't like flavors. They should pass a law that nothing available to adults should be allowed to have flavor in it so when kids turn 18, they can no longer have bubble gum with fun flavors but they can smoke all the tobacco they want. So silly. Go Matt!