three_sixteen

Why was Johnson Creek putting a generic version of Cialis in their liquid? That makes their e-cig a drug delivery device, which is exactly what the FDA is complaining about. Like I said in another thread, once the FDA starts sending cease and desist letters to people who aren't selling their products as smoking cessation devices or putting pharmaceuticals in their products we can start to safely worry.

The nicotine in liquid is derived from tobacco, and it's this that grants the FDA governance over e-cigs.

Listen, I really hate to sound like I'm defending the FDA here - but I didn't see anything in that letter that indicated they were going to treat ALL electronic cigarettes as drug devices. I'm not convinced yet that we need to start freaking out. Its painfully obvious that they're referring to the five companies they sent letters to with particular focus on the marketers who are putting weight loss and erectile dysfunction drugs into the liquid they sell.

I suppose all of that makes it worth noting that a possible avenue would be to derive nicotine from something else, like a tomato plant. The problem could be that the concentration of nicotine in tomato plants isn't as high and so it would take much more raw materials to produce the same amount of nicotine. Also a possible problem could be that because nicotine is a product of tobacco, even though the it came from a different plant it's still nicotine. I'm not a lawyer :P Uma beat me to it!

You lost me here - you're searching in the wrong place and the nicotine in liquid is derived from tobacco. The FDA is empowered to control tobacco products by H.R. 1256 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1256 You may be interested in TITLE I, SEC 101: If you read the rest of the bill and the laws it modifies it will make quite clear that any product derived from tobacco and any accessory to it, nicotine and e-cigs in this case, is in their domain.

It wasn't an affiliate link..

I hope so too, only time will tell!

Im not sure I see the connection between PM testing new dip, cigars, non-menthol cigarettes and electronic cigarettes. If PM was testing a brand of their own e-cig you could make an argument that they're trying to stifle the competition. Frankly it sounds to me like some shady vendors got busted for poor marketing practices and putting mystery ingredients into their liquid. e-cigs should not be marketed as: a cure to anything a smoking cessation device 'tonic' They should be marketed as: a potentially safer alternative to smoking a product for people over 18 Ingredients in the liquid should be disclosed and vendors should test to make sure the products they import from China have had nothing added to them. How much would it suck to find out that vendors were selling liquid that contained some incredibly dangerous element in it? I don't want an ED drug or weight loss drugs in stuff I'm inhaling, do you? Sure, labs can look clean - but that doesn't mean nothing is going on behind the scenes. I'll say it again, regulation and taxation is a good thing that will legitimize the products we love and make them safer for everyone. As best as I can tell right now, e-cigs are only believed to be better than analogs - something I also believe. Any time something comes out that shows we're getting more than we bargain for it dings that reputation of being a cleaner, safer alternative.

I think it proves that the FDA is looking out for us, and I'm glad that they are. I definitely do not want to buy products from vendors that add mystery ingredients that I do not want. Regulation and taxation is a good thing, as it legitimizes the industry. Yes, it increases the cost to us - but when it's proven to be safer and vendors follow strict guidelines that are made to protect us in the production of the liquid I will feel a lot better about vaping. To be perfectly honest, I wish there was a way to test and report on the juice that I do buy, because I worry constantly about hidden ingredients that I don't want and I think people deserve to know exactly what's in the juice they buy.

I think that, before we freak out, some context is needed - particularly after reading the WSJ article I saw some reasons for concern and would agree with the FDA's decision. To quote the article: Yes, they should *not* be allowed to sell products that contain these things. It will be interesting to see whether or not reputable vendors are also sent cease and desist letters. If the FDA is only trying to shut down vendors who are putting extra things that don't need to be there into their liquid then I whole heartedly agree with them. I am concerned about getting more than I pay for in my liquid and I definitely don't think companies should be allowed to put things in there without disclosing it. If the FDA sends cease and desist orders to companies who are selling liquid that contains nothing but PG/VG, nicotine, water and flavoring then we should start to be concerned.

The way I see it, they'll eventually raise taxes so much that people will quit smoking all together or finding other ways to smoke without paying the taxes.. Basically the gov't will raise taxes so much that they'll turn everyone away and stop getting tax money haha

I never thought I would want to bother with filling blanks or even refilling carts, but after getting inconsistent performance out of prefilled cartomizers I wanted to try out the blanks. I get way way better flavor and vapor production out of the carts I filled myself. Something tells me that the prefilled carts probably sit on a shelf somewhere for a pretty long time and dry out or something, the weird thing is that trying to fill up the poor performing carts doesn't seem to improve their performance

I just got my first round of blank cartomizers and filled them while leaving the rubber cap with the nipple in. I put 22 drops in mine and when I pulled the cap off, the nipple wasn't even wet.. wondering if you can put even more in?

(disclaimer, I might be drunk :P) Just wanted to chime in again after 24 hours, and a trip to the bar. After using the KR8081-D some more I'm even more happy with it. The vapor production is actually pretty good, and the convenience can't be beat. I've been using the same cartomizer all day and after my battery died at the bar I just swapped the dead battery out with one that's been in my PCC all day. I would agree that a cartomizer equals a pack of cigarettes. Without a bar trip I would smoke a half a pack a day, but when going to the bar I would probably smoke a whole pack in a day. Since I finished a cartomizer in a day with a trip to the bar, I would say that's a pack of cigarettes. I had some concerns about the vapor production while using the short battery but after figuring out how to take a drag with an ecig I found the same satisfaction (equal 'smoke', better flavor, full cigarette) that I got from an analog cigarette using both the automatic and normal battery. I know there's some people who say that a bigger battery = more vapor here, but to me the shorter/weaker and longer/stronger battery produce the same amount of vapor. For someone who needs portability and convienence and isn't a vaporphile the KR808D-1 is definitely for you!

Damn, that's totally a Marlboro smooth.. I know what I'll be buying very soon