Brian is right. I have only used ecigs for about 3-1/2 months now and I was very fortunate to find this forum to research "the good and the not so good" brands and such. I took the advice of long time vapers here and ordered a joye 510 kit. It came with 2 complete setups, charger and 5 cartridges for $35. The parts are pretty standard purchase for the 510 too.
Brian is right, cartridges aren't equal to a pack of cigarettes. You'll want to add liquid or change the cartridge after a few "drags". Plus, the liquid they prefill those cartridges with tastes pretty cruddy. The authentic look and feel seems to be what first time buyers look for in an ecig, but after using it for a day, that will go out the window. You'll want a long lasting battery, sturdy product, etc. over the look of it. They are all mostly too heavy to leave in your mouth like a cigarette too.
There's just so many false claims out there, you have to be careful. My sister and niece fell for an electronic cigarette scam a few months ago, called Prada. They keep sending new supplies and charging your account, like a contract club type thing.
Good luck and I highly recommend the advice of veteran vapers on this site.
What ticks me off is that ecigs have to be "formally proven" on paper to say they work to quit smoking, yet cigarettes are accepted and ap-proved to knowingly kill you.
I would like to think that the FDA has a war on their hands if they ban ecigs, because it would clearly make NO SENSE!
Thanks for posting that article. Maybe we can sign up Katherine Heigl to join us in our fight
* "Just 20 minutes after your last cigarette, your blood pressure and
pulse rate drop to normal and the body temperature of your hands and
feet increases to normal."
* "A mere 8 hours after your last smoke, the carbon monoxide level
decreases and the oxygen level in your blood increases to normal."
* "Just 24 hours after your last cigarette, you substantially lessen
your chances of having a heart attack."
* "Two days after your last cigarette, you will notice that your
ability to taste and smell is enhanced."
* "Three days later, your breathing should be noticeably better
because your lung capacity will be greater."
* "Your circulation will improve and your lung functioning will
increase up to 30% within two weeks to three months after quitting."
* "Between one month and nine months, the cilia in your lungs will
regenerate, allowing your body to clean your lungs and reduce
infection."
* "One year after quitting, your risk of coronary heart disease is
half that of a smoker."
* "Five years after quitting, your risk of stroke is reduced to that
of a nonsmoker."
* "Ten years after quitting, the lung cancer death rate is about half
that of a continuing smokers. The risk of cancer of the mouth, throat,
esophagus, bladder, kidney and pancreas decreases."
* "Fifteen years after quitting, your risk of coronary heart disease
is that of a nonsmokers.
Brian is right. I have only used ecigs for about 3-1/2 months now and I was very fortunate to find this forum to research "the good and the not so good" brands and such. I took the advice of long time vapers here and ordered a joye 510 kit. It came with 2 complete setups, charger and 5 cartridges for $35. The parts are pretty standard purchase for the 510 too.
Brian is right, cartridges aren't equal to a pack of cigarettes. You'll want to add liquid or change the cartridge after a few "drags". Plus, the liquid they prefill those cartridges with tastes pretty cruddy. The authentic look and feel seems to be what first time buyers look for in an ecig, but after using it for a day, that will go out the window. You'll want a long lasting battery, sturdy product, etc. over the look of it. They are all mostly too heavy to leave in your mouth like a cigarette too.
There's just so many false claims out there, you have to be careful. My sister and niece fell for an electronic cigarette scam a few months ago, called Prada. They keep sending new supplies and charging your account, like a contract club type thing.
Good luck and I highly recommend the advice of veteran vapers on this site.
I was being somewhat facetious about this, but nowadays, I guess we can't put anything past our govt. and it's cronies.
A new off-subject forum may be the answer if it comes down to it. Chris has our contact info to invite us to it, I would think
And I will help do what I can.
Perhaps when the time comes, a protest would be a good idea?!?! Or numerous ones in different parts of the country. I have Charlotte, NC covered, and with me, possibly Madvapes, Sharp Smoker and other nearby suppliers/vapers.
I guess we should stop eating too! Recently, Prozac was found in shrimp, lead & copper in very high levels are found in drinking water thanks to the chloramines that are water districts add to our water, which our foods are processed with too, making them toxic as well. There has been a complaint filed against numerous food processing plants, including baby foods. Even bottled water has been tainting, so there are toxins everywhere.
The FDA is far from consumer protection.
They approve dangerous medical devices that harm/kill people, allow extremely dangerous food additives/synthetic foods, don't require food companies to even label weather our meats are irradiated, colored with potentially deadly allergens in the form dyes, and the steroids in our chickens have totally gotten out of control, Yet the FDA allows the to get away with it, thus many of us can feel anxious, heart racing, or in some situations, stop breathing from being exposed to even the fumes from a kitchen where they are cooking such foods. Thus I have to carry an EpiPen with me everywhere I go, and read labels of everything I eat & even then, I have to avoid certain foods, as the additives not listed can be a huge problem. Diet foods & drinks often contain Olestra (usually in chips & crackers) & the diet drinks that contain aspartame are FAR worse than the alleged cancer-causing saccharine. Aspartame (which is made with wood alcohol and amino acid isolates, phenylalanine and aspartic acid) has been associated with a whole lot worse health problems, many long-term neurological effects, brain damage, and so on (see http://www.wnho.net/aspartame_brain_damage.htm ) & a host of other problems. See http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html for a mind-boggling list, and there are more! Yet!!!
It is perfectly OK with the FDA to market drinks & foods containing aspartame & it seems the company that created aspartame won the "your product is worse than ours" war, likely with better attorneys & highly questionable research. (My opinion & that of many researchers world-wide.) I will use saccharine, but not aspartame. IMHO, it is a deadly, slow-acting neurotoxin, but it's perfectly OK to market it to children as a healthier food, even though research indicates the contrary, the FDA proposed a ban on saccharine in 1977, created a huge scare that it caused cancer, again IMHO due to highly questionable research by their competitors & now we have aspartame in just about every diet drink in America.
Watching out for our health? Not for many years IMHO.
While I agree with full disclosure labeling, it is difficult to resolve the issues of unequal treatment by different companies & industries with the FDA, other than to say it takes a lot of money to get the "right research data" to support your position to get a product approved, even if it is FAR safer than another product. Research statistics can be skewed to show what you want it to show, which sadly is done more often than not.
eCigs are no exception! ONE bad batch of eJuice, a scientist with a negative view on a product & you can loose.
In other countries, eCigs or vapor devices are as a way to take certain vitamins & herbs to improve health. Sure, over-doing anything can be harmful or deadly. As with ANYTHING, even water - too much can cause death, but we can't ban water now can we?
THe FDA ban of ephedra sinica is no different. Did people abuse it & die? It seems so, although I think it was more than likely the chemical version or the extract, ephedrine, that was the culprit. Mix that with a LOT of alcohol & yes, you can have a heart attack. Use it properly & you can treat if not cure asthma & if given corticosteroids it is one of the few things, in small quantities, that can deactivate them & help flush them out of your system should one have an allergic &/or adverse reaction to the corticosteroids. Most doctors will tell you there is, "No known antidote" to an adverse or allergic reaction to corticosteroids. Some will tell you that you, "can't have an allergic reaction, as cortisol is made by your body naturally!" When a medical professional tries to tell you this, you might refer them to the PDR or "Physician's Desk Reference", as that statement is simply not true!
Here's a list of adverse reactions to corticosteroids, which are FDA approved...
The following adverse reactions have been reported with corticosteroids, drugs which doctors will tell you there is no antidote for, as I said before. Does this list look like anything that should EVER be used, other than in extreme, life-threatening, emergencies? I think not, but the FDA approves their use & the misconceptions by medical professionals are astounding!)
Allergic reactions
Allergic or hypersensitivity reactions, anaphylactoid reaction, anaphylaxis, angioedema.
Endocrine
Decreased carbohydrate and glucose tolerance, development of cushingoid state, glycosuria, hirsutism, hypertrichosis, increased requirements for insulin or oral hypoglycemic agents in diabetes, manifestations of latent diabetes mellitus, menstrual irregularities, secondary adrenocortical and pituitary unresponsiveness (particularly in times of stress, as in trauma, surgery, or illness), suppression of growth in pediatric patients.
Fluid and electrolyte disturbances
Congestive heart failure in susceptible patients, Fluid retention, hypokalemic alkalosis, potassium loss, sodium retention.
Gastrointestinal
Abdominal distention, bowel/bladder dysfunction (after intrathecal administration), elevation in serum liver enzymes levels (usually reversible upon discontinuation), hepatomegaly, increased appetite, nausea, pancreatitis, peptic ulcer with possible subsequent perforation and hemorrhage, perforation of the small and large intestine (particularly in patients with inflammatory bowel disease), ulcerative esophagitis.
Metabolic
Negative nitrogen balance due to protein catabolism.
Musculoskeletal
Aseptic necrosis of femoral and humeral heads, calcinosis (following intra-articular or intra-lesional use), Charcot-like arthropathy, loss of muscle mass, muscle weakness, osteoporosis, pathologic fracture of long bones, postinjection flare (following intra-articular use), steroid myopathy, tendon rupture, vertebral compression fractures.
Neurologic/Psychiatric
Convulsions, depression, emotional instability, euphoria, headache, increased intracranial pressure with papilledema (pseudotumor cerebri) usually following discontinuation of treatment, insomnia, mood swings, neuritis, neuropathy, paresthesia, personality changes, psychic disorders, vertigo.
Other
Abnormal fat deposits, decreased resistance to infection, hiccups, increased or decreased motility and number of spermatozoa, injection site infections following non-sterile administration (see WARNINGS), malaise, moon face, weight gain.
The following adverse reactions have been reported with the following routes of administration
Intranasal
Allergic reactions, rhinitis, temporary/permanent visual impairment including blindness.
Ophthalmic
Increased intraocular pressure, infection, ocular and periocular inflammation including allergic reactions, residue or slough at injection site, temporary/permanent visual impairment including blindness.
====
These reactions can occur from even topical use, as in lotions, yet are more likely from injections.
Does this sound like the FDA is looking out for our best interests? I think not!
I do believe the labs where eCig products are made, in general, do their best to be sure their products are not contaminated.
If approved as a "medical device" by the FDA, there will be no accountability or liability, as per current laws (started 200 that were put into place by the Bush administration. YES! The FDA is seriously behind other countries & responds to hype from those wanting to be heard.
My hope is that the FDA will drop this "Medical Device" nonsense, so this does not occur with eCigs as it hsa with medical devices..
Excerpt from : http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/ieee/ieee25.htm
Medical Device Regulation
Prior to 1976 there was little federal regulation of medical devices. The FDA could bring a court action to have a dangerous device removed from the market. These actions were based on the FDA's authority to embargo adulterated or misbranded products. While these concepts were well understood for drugs, the courts took them to mean that only the proven dangerous devices, or those that were openly fraudulent could be removed from the market. Even when the courts were willing to act, these proceedings took many years, with the device freely available until the final appeals were over. (It took more than 20 years to remove the orgone accumulator from the market.) To escape regulation, the manufacturer need only modify the device and it could start selling it again, forcing the FDA to begin a new court proceeding.
Furthermore, from: http://www.naturalnews.com/022713.html , about one such case (and there are tens of thousands) - state courts cannot even hold a manufacturer responsible!
that "federal law prohibits suing device manufacturers in state courts if the device was approved as safe by the FDA. The decision is expected to have ramifications for a large number of pending lawsuits against manufacturers of devices such as breast implants, defibrillators, artificial heart pumps and valves, drug-coated stents, spinal cord stimulators, and prosthetic hips and knees.
Because there is no federal law that allows consumers to sue medical device manufacturers for damages, state courts have become a common venue for such suits.
(MY NOTE: This is no longer the case, as state courts hands are also tied with the 'no liability' loophole & the quality of medical devices, as such, IMHO has declined significantly!)
The legal reasoning behind the court's decision centered on the wording of the 1976 Medical Device Amendments law. The law, which set in place an FDA pre-approval process for medical devices, explicitly prohibited states from putting in place "any requirement" that is "different from, or in addition to" FDA requirements. In an 8-1 majority, the court ruled that allowing citizens to sue device companies in state courts amounts to "a requirement" that undermines the FDA approval process.
Writing for the majority, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that the FDA may approve devices "that present great risks if they nonetheless offer great benefits in light of available alternatives." In other words, there is no requirement that devices actually achieve any reasonable level of safety for all patients. To receive FDA approval and be immunized from lawsuits, medical devices merely have to keep alive slightly more people than they kill."
Does this sound like a caring or concerned FDA? One county in one state had over 6,000 claims against Medtronic for making faulty pace maker & spinal cord stim, or "SCS" units. The judge 's response is that his hands were tied by the 'no liability' clause, that with that many claims, it was certainly not the doctors at fault (although you have to wonder about kick-backs to implant these devices & no mandatory reporting of funds changing hands will be in effect until 2013 (& I with medical corporations, universities & so on, the money your doctor may get for prescribing a certain amount of medication to x amount of patients for a trip, etc. is unlikely to be found anywhere.
eCigs, if they become classified as, "Medical Devices" will likely follow suit, with NO checks & balances!
One need go no further than Google and search, "medical device lawsuit dismissed" to find a multitude of these very types of lawsuits that have been dismissed.
IF eCigs get the "medical device" green light, I'd be FAR more concerned about the safety of our eCigs & eJuice NOT being as safe!
The FDA, if they are REALLY looking out for public safety, would leave eCigs alone, just as they are!
I've never had a problem with mine & have had confidence that the companies making our eCigs have integrity. f the FDA succeeds in classifying eCigs as a "drug delivery system medical device", it could strip away that integrity and protection as it has with other medical devices.
ALL those people in the dismissed SCS 'medical device' cases were left with the costs of removing the devices (or burying their loved ones who died as a result), without any confidence that there was any other device that might be better. Two other companies make similar devices, yet with really no guaranty that another device would be any better.
eCigs, or personal vaporizers, are NOT medical devices! Classification of them being as such could be hazardous to our health!
However, you would NOT get this kind of reaction, if people were not afraid of the big bad government. You are right, the LAST thing we need is home brewed nicotine. But people have found a viable alternative to putting smoke from a burning fire with 4000 chemicals into their lungs, and they don't want the government to quash it. In fact, to some it seems INSANE that the government would even consider it. To me, it make perfect sense. It's exactly what I expected them to do. And have been expecting them to do for the last year. They're just now getting around to it, because 30 to 40 thousand more ecigs are sold in the US each week.
They can holler they're marketing them to children (how stupid), or that they're unknown carcinogens in them, and they need more "study" and so on. But ANYONE who's been vaping for a month or so will know the difference. Your health improves IMMEDIATELY, breathing better, more stamina, better taste, better smell, but yet according to the FDA, it might be worse than cigarettes. But we know what it's all about. The FDA, and the entire federal government could give a ____ less about your health when it comes to cigarettes. We cannot let a 300 billion dollar industry be superseded UNLESS we control it.
We would love for you to keep killing yourself, in fact we're going to give you no choice but to keep killing yourself, or quit, which we know you can't do. So we gotcha. And we get to make 3 to 5 dollars a pack tax money as the government, and Phillip Morris gets to make about the same thing, depending on what part of the country you're in.
Along comes this "ecig" and throws a monkey wrench into it. We can't have that. Damn those Chinese for inventing it!
Bottom line, enjoy it while you can, another six months, year, who knows? I've been a smoker for 45 years, and haven't had or wanted a cigarette for a month. And these SOB's want to tell me they're LOOKING out for my own good?
Well, it will only get worse until 1776 happens all over again. And then we're in a world of hurt.
I've seen a few posts that say 'write your congressman'. Do you really think they care? Now, if it was 'send your congressman a million dollars', then they MIGHT listen.
We'll (our side)might can keep this thing tied up in court for a few months, maybe even more than a year, but we all know eventually if the hens are suing the fox, and the judge is a fox, we know where it ends up. How can you fairly sue the federal government when the judge WORKS for the federal government? It's like asking me am I guilty?
Again, enjoy them while you can, stock up, and get ready to quit altogether, or spend the big bucks to kill yourself.
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